Judith Collins: Defence Minister explains why defence spending blueprint release has been delayed until next year

Judith Collins has revealed the Defence Force's major spending blueprint release has been delayed until next year, citing escalating world tensions.

Speaking after appearing before a Select Committee this afternoon, the Defence Minister says the capability plan has been pushed back because she's taking the time to get things right.  

Collins says there's more 'militarisation' efforts coming out of places like China - and it's unlike anything she's seen before.

"The recent Chinese Navy Renhai-class cruiser and destroyer visiting Port Vila, Vanuatu, in October this year - that's the first time we've seen ships of that capability in that position when they weren't just coming back from somewhere else and stopping off."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
New Zealand's long awaited new defense plan has been delayed
once again, and the Defense Minister has blamed a worsening
security situation in the Pacific. The Defense Capability Plan is
supposed to lay out our defense spending for the coming decades,
but a Chinese intercontinental ballistic missile with a mock warhead
landed near French Polynesia in September. In the last month

(00:22):
of Chinese Chinese Navy destroyer visited Vanuatu. Defense Minister jud
Collins is with us this afternoon. Good afternoon, afternoon, Jack,
Just how concerning are those recent events.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it's quite it's quite concerning because they are different
from what we've seen before, and the recent Chinese Navy
ren high class cruiser and destroyer visiting Port Vila, Vanuatu
in October this year, that's the first time we've seen
the ships of that capability in that position when they

(00:57):
weren't just coming back from somewhere else and stopping. So
it's certainly much more militarization now within the Pacific.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
So how has it changed your plans when it comes
to the Defense Capability Plan.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, I think the fact is that we have to
be aware that a small nation like us. We can't
do everything that we would like to do, but it
is important to understand that even the shyer things have changed.
So we've also had that intercontinental ballistic missile at the
end of September from China, which went around eleven thousand,

(01:32):
two hundred kilometers. It's the sort of thing that could
reach New Zealand. So everything starting to move up, and
certainly the Navy needs a lot of rebuild and we
have to look at things like replacing the frigates. And
we're also looking at newer warfare situations where things like

(01:52):
drones and other technical new technologies or relatively new. So
I think, really what's done is we say everything's moved
up this year, so up.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
And toil this point? Did the plan not give sufficient
weight to potential risks from China?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, I think what defense we're working on and I
asked them to do so when I became the minister
to rethink things. I don't things hadn't moved as much,
I think, and perhaps Defense was thinking, well, hopefully things
won't get much worse, but actually the world has got
a lot worse. So if I just consider the China's

(02:33):
operating twenty three destroyers launched in the last ten years
compared to eleven operational US destroyers. You're talking about quite
a big shift in resources. And yes, things have changed.
So you know, also, you know, the North Korean's going
off to help the Russians in Ukraine. All of these

(02:55):
things are happening the South China see situation. So yes,
it's a bigger game. And the last time there was
a defense capability plan was about four years ago under
the previous government, and the problem there is that it
wasn't funded at all. So I think, you know, we're
trying to be very realistic about what we can do,
what we can fund, and also what we might need

(03:15):
to how we might need to reassess it if things
get worse.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
So you said today quote people need to understand that
if a missile can go to Kiddy Bus, it can
get to New Zealand. What do you mean by.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Much, Well, it's we're not We can't sit down this
end of the world and say that we're just safe
hiding down here and no one's going to notice. I
think we need to be also aware, for instance, in Antarctica,
where we have you know, Scott Base, where the Americans
haven't murdered, but base China has built five new bases

(03:50):
there recently, and they're looking for their six. These are
all things that people should be aware of. It's important
for space work, it's important for ten other communications, it's
important for spying. Actually, all these things are very important.
So we just need to be aware that the game
has changed.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Labour's ruled out joining Orcust Pillar two and says that
it would pull out if your government decided to join
before the next election. What do you make of that.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. I mean, Labor and Chris Hopkins
were very keen to explore Pillar two of Aucus when
they were in government, and suddenly now they're not. I
think also is that they've said that they've said that
the Chinese ambassador to New Zealand has been has basically
berated New Zealand over looking at Aucust Pillar two. Well know,

(04:46):
New Zealand's foreign policy to be actually determined in Wellington,
not by for New Zealand, by New Zealanders, not by
other countries or their ambassadors. So I think that's pretty disappointing.
It's the first of overt politicization of foreign policy that
we've seen in quite a while, and I like to

(05:06):
hope that it's a bit like the tpp A, which
they were completely against and in opposition. As soon as
they got in the government put CTP on it NEXTRA
one and suddenly it was all their ideas. So who knows,
but I think it is pretty disappointing. I mean our
meeting this week with the Australian Labor Minister for Defense

(05:28):
and Deputy Prime Minster Peters is meeting with Penny Wong,
the Foreign Minister for Australia. Their Labor, they're hardcore concerned
about the security of their country. I'd say Chris Hopkins
should be too.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Do you think that Beijing is pulling the strings when
it comes to Labor's foreign policy? Is that what you
were suggesting?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
No, I don't know who's pulling their strings, and frankly,
you know, I don't know who is. But I think
the point is for Labor is that they're rushing to
try and throw up the Green vote or their Mari party.
I don't know what they're doing, but I do think
they're acting in a very political way when foreign policy
has always been something that we have tried very very
hard to have a bipartisan arrangement on they've just gone

(06:12):
out and done this with our enny discussion with us,
So basically they're saying that they're on their own.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
All right, Thanks for your time, we appreciate it. That
is Defense Minister Judith Collins. For more from Hither Duplessy
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