The Government's aiming to strike a balance between cutting red tape and keeping people safe on work sites.
Officials are consulting with the construction sector on changing rules on scaffolding.
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister, Brooke van Velden, says over-compliance makes jobs cost more - and take more time.
Building Industry Federation chief executive Julien Leys says health and safety is important to the sector, and a balance needs to be struck.
"Everyone hates scaffolding as much as they hate road cones, but we shouldn't forget that that scaffolding is there for a reason and any height can be dangerous."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
When down to Sanza.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Well, then this is the angels. I'm going to come
back to this and we've just got to deal with
some serious news. By the way, nine two ninety two
is the text number good news if you hate scaffolding.
Health and Safety Minister Brook van Velden has announced that
not all maintenance at height will be required to use
scaffolding in their work. Minister is going to be consulting
with the industry to figure out exactly how to do this.
(00:24):
Julian Lais is the chief executive at the Building Industry Federation.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hey Julian, Hey, heathern.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you well? Thank you mate. So if Brook
comes to you and says, right, how do we change it?
What do we do? What are you going to say
to her?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, I've got to say, Brooke, it's all about the detail.
And so what we want to do is ensure, of
course health and safety, but also reduce some of the costs.
And everyone hates scaffolding as much as they hate road cones.
But we shouldn't forget that. You know that scaffolding there
is there for a reason, and you know any height
can be dangerous.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So no, Julian, you're not that guy. Are you like,
oh you'll stay. Oh look that you're half a meter
off the ground. We need some scaffolding for you. Are
you that guy?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm saying we need to be mindful that we don't
put paste before prudence and make these reforms. I think
there's are balance and so I think we should say.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But I agree with you, we've gone way too far
in the other direction, wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I think we have to some extent. I think so
this is about sort of bringing back a middle ground
where we don't do away with with those things that
were put in there in place for a reason, and
we shouldn't forget here that that most people then end
up in eds are blokes that are falling of ladders, right, so.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Are they starting? I don't want to protect stone people
like this is the thing?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think so one day that this is the worst
example for me. You have been to Wellington, you right,
you drive along Evans Bay Parade. You got those little
little boat houses there. I was driving bass Wood like
that when the boat houses when the little I don't
know my building terms, you know, you're the apex of
the roof and then it goes down to the bottom
like sort of the easy bit and that two of
them joined, and there was the triangle at the bottom,
(01:58):
you know, like the gully of the roof if you
want to call it. That that thing wouldn't be far
off my shoulder right, and they had scaffolding to work on.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
That.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That's silly, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well indeed, so look, the Minister will be consulting with
the industry and there will be you know, hopefully standards
and a guidance that says for certain low risk activity.
Then as long as you've got these other things in place,
which might be ladders with braces or you know, a harness,
that that's a good compromise. So I think let's wait
(02:29):
and see what But I think we'll see you be sharing,
along with Chas and the other Health and Safety body,
some clear practical guides that hopefully achieve a middle grade Gillian.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Don't you think that for the most part we could
get around the safety issue with a harness and not
require massive amounts of scaffolding.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, it all depends on the nature of the project,
how big it is, how high it is. So in
some cases it might be you know, if if it's
a reno being done on a existing residential house. Possibly yes,
Like like your example Evans Bay, if you're working at
four or five stories, probably not okay.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So I think I think most of it well, I
think we probably would agree with each other. But but
I'm not I'm not loving the fact that you came
in kind of with a negative attitude. So are you
going to be like, are you going to be the
breaks on brooks Idea?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Are you not the breaks? Just just the voice of
sanity Heather.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
No, this is the wrong thing to say, now, I
really you are going to be the breaks. Hey. By
the way, I love what's going on with the jib
board and all these alternative products you know, from from
from from other parts of the world where you know
we have we have similar thinking. Problem would be how
much confidence do we have that the likes of Bunnings
and Mighty ten are actually going to stock them?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh? Look, I think you know they will stock what
what what the merchants want, sorry, what the trade's want,
and what the specifies the architects and others want. Knowing
that's knowing if it's available in the market, they will
bring it in and they will bring it and if
it's good quality and if it's at a certain price,
it'll come in.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Do you think that this is good? Because if I
was a builder, I just you know, to be honest,
I'd probably I'd have enough things going on in my
life not to have to worry about whether I'm going
to get alternative jib. So I'll just stick with what
I know. So if everybody just sticks with what they know,
nothing changes. So is this going to rely on the
customer to actually start agitating.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yes, I think it'll rely on It will rely on
the homeowners and customers, but it'll flow through the entire
supply chain. So it's going to be you know, as
I say, the architects as well, including the builders, because
there'll be a bit of awareness on their part. They'll
they'll want to try alternative products if they are cheaper,
but if they still meet code. So it's not going
(04:42):
to happen overnight. But I think it just means that
people will have greater choice as long as you know,
the system allows us to judge those criteria accordingly and
we don't get you know, dodgy product coming into the market.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Julian, thanks very much, appreciate your time. That's Julian Lay's
chief executive of the Building Industry Federation. For more from
Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
When down to Sanza.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Well, then this is the angels. I'm going to come
back to this and we've just got to deal with
some serious news. By the way, nine two ninety two
is the text number good news if you hate scaffolding.
Health and Safety Minister Brook van Velden has announced that
not all maintenance at height will be required to use
scaffolding in their work. Minister is going to be consulting
with the industry to figure out exactly how to do this.
(00:24):
Julian Lais is the chief executive at the Building Industry Federation.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hey Julian, Hey, heathern.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you well? Thank you mate. So if Brook
comes to you and says, right, how do we change it?
What do we do? What are you going to say
to her?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, I've got to say, Brooke, it's all about the detail.
And so what we want to do is ensure, of
course health and safety, but also reduce some of the costs.
And everyone hates scaffolding as much as they hate road cones.
But we shouldn't forget that. You know that scaffolding there
is there for a reason, and you know any height
can be dangerous.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So no, Julian, you're not that guy. Are you like,
oh you'll stay. Oh look that you're half a meter
off the ground. We need some scaffolding for you. Are
you that guy?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm saying we need to be mindful that we don't
put paste before prudence and make these reforms. I think
there's are balance and so I think we should say.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But I agree with you, we've gone way too far
in the other direction, wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I think we have to some extent. I think so
this is about sort of bringing back a middle ground
where we don't do away with with those things that
were put in there in place for a reason, and
we shouldn't forget here that that most people then end
up in eds are blokes that are falling of ladders, right, so.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Are they starting? I don't want to protect stone people
like this is the thing?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think so one day that this is the worst
example for me. You have been to Wellington, you right,
you drive along Evans Bay Parade. You got those little
little boat houses there. I was driving bass Wood like
that when the boat houses when the little I don't
know my building terms, you know, you're the apex of
the roof and then it goes down to the bottom
like sort of the easy bit and that two of
them joined, and there was the triangle at the bottom,
(01:58):
you know, like the gully of the roof if you
want to call it. That that thing wouldn't be far
off my shoulder right, and they had scaffolding to work on.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
That.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That's silly, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well indeed, so look, the Minister will be consulting with
the industry and there will be you know, hopefully standards
and a guidance that says for certain low risk activity.
Then as long as you've got these other things in place,
which might be ladders with braces or you know, a harness,
that that's a good compromise. So I think let's wait
(02:29):
and see what But I think we'll see you be sharing,
along with Chas and the other Health and Safety body,
some clear practical guides that hopefully achieve a middle grade Gillian.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Don't you think that for the most part we could
get around the safety issue with a harness and not
require massive amounts of scaffolding.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, it all depends on the nature of the project,
how big it is, how high it is. So in
some cases it might be you know, if if it's
a reno being done on a existing residential house. Possibly yes,
Like like your example Evans Bay, if you're working at
four or five stories, probably not okay.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So I think I think most of it well, I
think we probably would agree with each other. But but
I'm not I'm not loving the fact that you came
in kind of with a negative attitude. So are you
going to be like, are you going to be the
breaks on brooks Idea?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Are you not the breaks? Just just the voice of
sanity Heather.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
No, this is the wrong thing to say, now, I
really you are going to be the breaks. Hey. By
the way, I love what's going on with the jib
board and all these alternative products you know, from from
from from other parts of the world where you know
we have we have similar thinking. Problem would be how
much confidence do we have that the likes of Bunnings
and Mighty ten are actually going to stock them?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh? Look, I think you know they will stock what
what what the merchants want, sorry, what the trade's want,
and what the specifies the architects and others want. Knowing
that's knowing if it's available in the market, they will
bring it in and they will bring it and if
it's good quality and if it's at a certain price,
it'll come in.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Do you think that this is good? Because if I
was a builder, I just you know, to be honest,
I'd probably I'd have enough things going on in my
life not to have to worry about whether I'm going
to get alternative jib. So I'll just stick with what
I know. So if everybody just sticks with what they know,
nothing changes. So is this going to rely on the
customer to actually start agitating.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yes, I think it'll rely on It will rely on
the homeowners and customers, but it'll flow through the entire
supply chain. So it's going to be you know, as
I say, the architects as well, including the builders, because
there'll be a bit of awareness on their part. They'll
they'll want to try alternative products if they are cheaper,
but if they still meet code. So it's not going
(04:42):
to happen overnight. But I think it just means that
people will have greater choice as long as you know,
the system allows us to judge those criteria accordingly and
we don't get you know, dodgy product coming into the market.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Julian, thanks very much, appreciate your time. That's Julian Lay's
chief executive of the Building Industry Federation. For more from
Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
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