Lance Burdett: Former police negotiator discusses handling of Tom Phillips case

A former police negotiator says police would have had to take a balanced approach to finding Marokopa fugitive Tom Phillips and his three children.

They've revealed today they spent thousands of hours searching for him but knew it was unlikely he would surrender easily.

Former Police negotiator Lance Burdett told Ryan Bridge they probably didn't want to overplay their hand. 

He says it was a balancing act between causing physical, emotional or psychological distress to the children.

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's what you need to know about this police statement
on Tom Phillips today. They detected him several times over
the years, but it was never safe enough to actually
catch them. They used the Special Tactics Group, Armed Defenders Squad,
search and rescue, support from the Defense Force, drones, helicopters,
tracking cameras four years, still couldn't find them. Bush was
too dense. They say, why the statement? Now is the

(00:21):
question and what does it mean? Lance burd Debt is
former police negotiated with us Lance, good evening.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Good evenings, Brian.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
What did you make the lengths they went to?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, I thought it was a little unusual because some
in there as tactics that they use, so I thought
it was just a little unusual there, you know. But
the big thing that we have to be mindful of
is that we don't have all of the facts yet,
so once you know all that, we can make a judgment.
But yeah, it did seem to you know, I think
there was everything in there except the CIA drone. They
tried everything, you know. I suspect human source was tried,

(00:54):
so they would have probably put an undercover police officer
into the community stage or somewhere around there. They would
have tried going to organizations like volunteer firefighters. They know
everything about their neighborhood, so I'm sure they've tried everything,
though they could have. It's a balancing act between causing physical,
emotional or psychological distress the children. So it is a

(01:18):
hell of a call. But you know, as things transpired hindsight,
it's a wonderful thing.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
They did say that they detected the family and you know,
sort of in transit on occasion, but couldn't intervene safely.
Does that raise questions for you, you know, detected and
then lost again or is it just the bush?

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, it would be just the bush and there's but
the other thing is there's caves there as well. The
thing that there's a couple of things that sort of
I query having young children in the bush in the
wintertime for four years, that that heart that he was under,
I mean, anyone could put that up. So there would
have been some secure I'm sure during the wintertime, some

(01:58):
some refuge for them to go to. But all of
these deployments, the question would be asked of when were
they deployed them for how long? Because I mean, you
haven't got finite resources, so you wouldn't want to be
putting drones up with the Special Tactics Group and perhaps
dogs going at the same time. It's about spacing them
out so that when Tom may come out after everybody's

(02:20):
left the bush, that that's when you put your drones up.
So the timing is really imperative.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
So what do you think? You said? It's interesting the
level of detail they've gone into. Why do you think
they're doing.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well? I think they've been heavily criticized, and it's a
way of saying, well, look, you know, this is what
we've done. That's sort the only thing I can think of. Well,
as I've seen your investigator, I wouldn't give out some
of this information, although it's pretty much what you're seeing
in the movies, but you know, these are tactics that
they have. The other thing that sort of bugging me

(02:52):
a little bit is police tend not to use their specialists.
They don't use them as much as they could. The
Special Tactics Group are highly trained, we have an advanced
negotiation team who are well versed in psychological practices and
human behavior. I don't think they use them enough, and

(03:13):
sometimes they go outside of their own capabilities. And don't
look deep enough within their own staff levels.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Interesting, Lance, thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Lance Burdette, former police negotiator, on the Tom Phillips police
statement today.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio