Liam Dann: NZ Herald business editor at large responds to 2024 Mood of the Boardroom survey

Business leaders have given their verdict on the Government in the Herald’s Mood of the Boardroom survey.

Some experts have noted that as the country enters an interest-rate cutting phase, now is the time to have a discussion about the make-up of ongoing retirement savings.

NZ Herald business editor at large Liam Dann says there's a clear mood for change as the economy enters a new phase.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sixteen pass six on newstalk ZEDB. Liam Dan, the New
Zealand Heral Business editor at large, was keeping a close
eye on the mood of the boardroom today. Getay liamb gooday,
Jack has thinks yeah very well. Thanks. So what did
you make of the superannuation called?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yeah? Heartening? From my point of view as someone who
sits there and worries about our ability to pay for things,
I guess you know when you looked at listen to
what was said in that debate, it's hard to make
a news story out of it, exactly because Barbara Edmonds
was very careful about what you said. You just said,
we're open to the conversation, but you know, you it

(00:35):
felt like the body language and so forth, that there
could be some mood for change there, which of course
would put national could put national neighbor on the same
page and bipartisan sort of stuff like that is pretty
powerful that the roadblock to it actually at the moment
in the current coalition is of course New Zealand first
and Winston Peters, who has been resistant for a long time.

(00:57):
But you know, I know he's he's got a large
base of older voters. But it really doesn't affect them.
If we're honest, it's you're talking about raising the superage
over a long period. I think the original plan under
Bill English twenty seventeen was to lift it for twenty forty. So,
you know, I don't know what a new one would

(01:19):
look like, but there was there was a large consensus
I guess seventy seven percent plus of those business leaders
who see that we need to have a debate about
the tax base because we're not going to be taking
enough tax because it's just demographics. We're going to have fewer,
fewer younger people, more older people. That means more people

(01:42):
I guess to support, and fewer people actually generating income tax.
And at the moment, of course, our tax system is
built on income tax, not on other kinds of tax.
Dore I go near that debate.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, avoid it, trust me. Hey, I mean that's a
that's you know, That's what I find really interesting about this, right, So,
not only because of the demographic changes, are we going
to face the pressures of supporting people through the superannuation
payments themselves like the four ninely payments. But the problem
is when you have an older population, your healthcare costs
massively increase as well, because like you know, so generally

(02:18):
the average twenty five year old doesn't cost nearly as
much to the health system as someone who's seventy five,
right or eighty five. That generally the older you are,
the more you cost. So you have all of these
pressures that come with those demographic changes, not just represented
in super but when you combine them together, I mean,
and given we're already in a structural deficit, it's very
hard to see how we're going to we'd.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Like and we'd all like to keep that first world
health system in our into our later years, I think,
you know. And does leave you with options that are
either tax more, spend less or the one that all
the politicians always fall back on is that we're going
to deliver policies which drive productivity and zealone is going
to be But you know, the issue is do we

(02:59):
really have the right economy to do that, even if
even if things are you know, are starting to improve,
or there's signs of hope another cyclical upturn as you know,
rising house prices and the immigration going to be enough
this time, while only the ounce is probably not. We're
not going to have another China boom the way we
did have. So we're looking for something else a bit

(03:21):
deeper and a bit more structural. I think it was
happening today. I think, you know, it was a pretty
high level kind of debate between Barbara Nicola and people
were pretty impressed with the ability of them to communicate
and that sort of thing. And so I know there
is a lot of desire, whether it's infrastructure or whatever,
for a bit more bipartisan thinking so that we can
stop flip flopping in these political political cycles.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
And liam a bit more of a nuanced debate about
a CGT.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, well, I mean I just think you know, certainly
a large percentage of the people in that room, which
you wouldn't necessarily expect it tends to come from the
left the CGT, and that that's kind of a hindrance
in a way because people are never quite sure whether
it's tied up with wealth tax and all the rest
of it. But the people, for the people in that
room who like it. I was talking to tax you know, accountants,

(04:09):
high level accountants and tax experts and things. It's really
about broadening that tax base, as as I mentioned, you know,
so it's about you know, maybe we've got to get
away from calling it a capital gains tax or whatever.
But you know it's some some level we need to
broaden it and people need to remember. And this was
not something that the Prome Minister to make clear when
he was responding to Antonio Wattson today and did the

(04:31):
original column plan was tax revenue neutral. So it's not
taking not meant to be taking more tax on the
first instance, off New Zealanders the base, so you should
actually be getting an income tax break if they're taking
some tax off off the other end, at the at
the wealthier end or at the possibly the older end.
It does it does shift the demographic shape of the

(04:52):
tax base, but that's really what's going to have to move.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
It's a version of the of the John Key tax switch.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, that's right, and I talked to Bill english And
last week or so. That's up online right now, and
he talks about that being one of the things you're
most proud of achieving because it's a very difficult thing
to do. It's a difficult argument to win, right, So.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Did that end up being revenue neutral? From the top
of my head it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
I can't remember. But one of the things Bill English
said is he was lucky to have a prime minister
like John Key who could sell that argument, so they
managed to get an unpopular policy through. I wonder whether
as good as Barbara Edmonds is likely to be it
actually building or writing a tax policy because he is
a tax expert, where the labor has the leadership there

(05:35):
to actually sell it at the moment, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Hey, thanks Liam, I appreciate it. That's New Zealand Herald
Business editor at Large, Liam Dan. You can hear that
interview with the Bill English by subscribing to Money Talks,
which is Liam's superb podcast. You can hear it on
iHeartRadio as well twenty two past six. For more from
Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to News Talks it'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on

(05:59):
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