Matt Doocey: Mental Health Minister on the growing calls for Royal Commission of Inquiry into mental health care after repeat killings

A Royal Commission of Inquiry into mental health care is looking unlikely - despite pressure over repeat killings by two patients.

Hillmorton Hospital resident, Elliot Cameron, murdered his 83-year-old Christchurch gardening client in October, with new revelations he killed his brother 50 years ago.

This year, another man was found not guilty on insanity grounds - for killing a second time. 

Minister Matt Doocey says questions are being asked on clinical decisions. 

Doocey says he expects the external reviews and coronial inquests to be answering these questions, as that's why they take place. 

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afternoon, there is a call for a Royal Commission of
Inquiry into the forensic mental health system. This comes after
two people were recently killed by mental health patients, both
after each of these patients had already killed someone before.
Matt Doosey is the Mental Health Minister and with us now,
hoy Matt, hi Heather, what do you think should we
have met a Royal Commission of inquiry.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
For those individual cases you're talking about? There is independent
reviews underway and coronial inquests, so I won't be commenting
until they've been completed.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Can you not tell us whether you're leaning towards a
Royal Commission of inquiry or not?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, Like I say, there is an independent review coronial
inquest that they'll make findings and recommendations.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Do you reckon? These are the only two cases.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
The story? Only two cases of what?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Are these the only two cases of people who have
killed twice once while they're already in mental health care?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh? Okay, I'm not aware of any others.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Do you think it's your remarkable that we have two
cases already? Because that's quite staggering, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah? Well, I suppose that's why we have the independent
reviews and the coronial inquests.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
How when you found out about this were you alarmed?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
I think when you look at mental health, we've got
people under the Compulsory Mental Health Act. I mean, in
mental health it is about treatment and risk. But our
settings for our mental health patients are in legislation, and
you know, I think we do need to go through
the appropriate process.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Do you think that perhaps we've got the settings wrong? Right? So,
in at least one of the cases, this is the
killing of faith Alps, the family of Faith Alps feel
that her rights to know that the guy who was
turning out up at her house to do the gardening
was a mental health patient, that right was lesser than
his right to privacy that she shouldn't know that he's

(01:57):
a mental health patient. Have we got that balance a
bit funny?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, that's what I would be expecting to be looked
at with the external review and the cronial inquest, to
be looking at those issues around clinical decision making.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, okay, I want to ask you this a question again, Matt.
Were you alarmed when you heard about these cases?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well? I'm always alarmed when sadly someone loses their life,
and also when there's serious offenses. So of course I
am genuinely alarmed, and that's why I'm ensuring that there
is an independent review and a coronial inquest, and I
would expect them to look at the clinical decisions made
in each of those cases.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
How long do these I mean, you know these things
take years, don't they.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Not necessarily? But I think quite rightly the questions you
are raising, I would expect the external reviews and the
cronial inquest to be answering those questions. That's why we undertake.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Them, because the reason I ask you about how long
it's going to take is in the meantime, we're all
sitting here wondering what is going on with the mental
health system that two of these blokes have been able
to go and kill for a second time.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Like I say, the settings around our mental health patients,
whether they are granted special leaves or other types of leave,
are legislated for so I don't.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Know that I don't know that that's the problem. This
chap was telling them that if they kicked him out
of the hospital, if they discharged him, he would be
chopping up bodies, and yet apparently nobody, and there were
multiple times that he was talking about going on to
commit a second murder, and none of those red flags
were noticed by anybody. I mean, is the problem the

(03:40):
fact that he was allowed out, or is the problem
that everybody just heard him talking about murdering people and
chopping them up and they thought, oh, nothing big, no
big deal. Isn't that the actual problem?

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well? I would expect those questions to be answered through
the external review and a cronew in quest.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
All Right, Matt, thank you, appreciate your time. Matt Doocy,
Minister of Mental Health.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
For more from Hither Duplessy, Allen Drive, listen live to
Newstalk SETB from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio