May 5, 2025 • 9 mins
The Finance Minister says she steers clear of emails - following a recent ministerial scandal.
This follows 1News reports that Erica Stanford sent pre-Budget announcements to her personal email before they were announced last year - one of tens of examples since she's been a Minister.
Her use of personal email could be a breach of the Cabinet manual - which all ministers are obliged to follow.
Nicola Willis says she's never really sending emails.
"I'm meeting with people face to face or I'm talking to my team and saying - look, could you just make sure that that minister's aware of this. Sometimes we do formal correspondence, letters and the like, but very rarely am I sitting at my keyboard."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
With us.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Now is Nichola Willis the Finance minister? Hey Nicola, Hi Heather,
Now Nicola, do you send any of your person your
emails to your Gmail account? Bony chance.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Look, I don't think so. To be honest, I don't
send many emails at all. I've got an incredible team
of people who do that for me. I tend to
send the odd text or what's that message? And that's
about it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Really, How do you get away with not doing emails?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Well? I do them very rarely, and that's because I
either am briefing officials face to face saying could you
get me this? Could do that please, I'm meeting with
people face to face, or I'm talking to my team
and saying, oh, look, could you just make sure that
that minister's aware of this. Sometimes we do formal correspondents
letters and the like, but very rarely am I sitting
(00:45):
at my keyboard writing an email.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So do you just have a person who you say,
can you please email Chris back and say to Chris, yep,
I'll be there for his announcement about blah blah on
that day.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, it's not so we don't so much communicate in
that way. So information comes to me in hard copy
from my agencies. My diary is there obviously in my calendar.
And then I have a lot of verbal briefings, a
lot of written briefings, a lot of discussions with colleagues
on a daily basis, face to face.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
What about in your personal life? Don't you get like
your power company emailing you? And second, we've got to
come around and fix the power box is Monday ten o'clock. Okay,
Oh sure.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I use a Gmail account for some of that stuff.
You know, the notices from school where the child A
has been well behaved, your child be has been bad.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Do you wag or do you just not?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I occasionally have, especially if it's nice news.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You just leave news.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well. Look, the way I think about it is, if
something's urgent, you're going to get on the phone. If
something's important to the relationship, you're probably going to be
face to face or having a conversation. Email can be
quite an impersonal way of communicating. It's hard to get
a sense of tone. I do use it sometimes, but
it's definitely not my most common mode.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Acsually, you're a baller. You've described my best life. I'm
going to stop emailing henceforth and just say if it's
good for the Finance minister, it's good for me. Now
listen David Seymour. I loved his idea of cutting the
ministerial portfolios. Right. He wants to get rid of the
economic growth portfolio, I would assume because it's not necessary,
is it?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, I think it is necessary. It's been very useful
being able to take an overall view of the work
happening across multiple portfolios to drive economic growth, to ensure
we're prioritizing the right thanks driving it forward. Well, having
a specific portfolio dedicated to that has meant that I've
had officials ensuring that we're engaging with businesses, that we
(02:39):
are responding to their specific concerns that they're raising. And
in fact, some of that then leads to policy ideas
being put on the agenda that wouldn't otherwise be there.
And look, there are always debates about do you integrate
it all into one portfolio or have separate portfolios. In
my case, Treasury provide me fiscal advice and economic advice
and MB support me and the economics that'll.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Alarm you though, I mean, like the basically everybody in
government should be aiming for economic growth. That's how we're
going to get more money into the country. The fact
that you have to have it as a job title
to make them think about it is kind of freaky,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well? I agree everyone should, but there are always questions
about are we prioritizing the things that are going to
most turn the dial because there are literally one hundred
things every minister could do each day. So let's make
sure we're focusing on the things that are most important
and take opportunities to be really clear about what that
program is, whether we're on track, what the obstacles are
(03:35):
and are found. It's a useful way of driving activity.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Thomas Coglan says that you're going to means test the
government's key we save a contribution to cut people off
who earn above one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. Is
it true?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
He wrote that article off the back of a interview
I had with you last week, and what I pledge
to both him and will pledge to you now is
I am not going to play the rule and rule
out game between now and Budget day, because what you
can see is that anything I say or do in
that nature is going to be poured over. It's going
(04:06):
to be raked over. But what I can tell you
is that I have given Thomas a specific chunky saving
that we are making in the budget for him to
run in your sister publication, the New Zealand Herald tomorrow morning.
It accounts for a billion dollars worth of money over
the next four years that will now be available for
health and education services and other good things. And I
(04:28):
think when New Zealanders read about that savings and I
should have, they'll say, good on you, very good doing this.
Shut that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You're doing this because he's harping on about this means
testing stuff and you're like, just give him something to
just satisfy him.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, well, look, when people are agree not to play
the rule in and rule out game, there can be
all sorts of rewards.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Here she was, Hey, listen, how big is our structural deficit?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, we will update that figure at the budget. The
structural deficit, for those listening, is the difference between what
we're earning in terms of revenue from tax and other
sources and what we're spending in terms of the commitments
government has to funding things and what you expect is
that when an economy is in a downturn, it's not
unusual for it to go into deficit. So a structural
(05:14):
deficit is saying even if the economy ticked up, we
still think that New Zealand would be spending more. And
that's that's the position the last Labor government left us in.
And what I can tell you is we are making
really good progress in reducing that structural deficit in the
budget and will update on that figure at budget time.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Okay, so when do you think we will stop running
a structural deficit?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Well, I will update that at budget time as well
as of.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Previous you can see we insight yes.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Because as I've said, we're going to have the box
back into balance with a very very lean surplus in
twenty twenty nine, and that reflects the fact that in
that year will be earning enough to meet our spending commitments.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, have you seen the tertiary ed Education Commission warning
about giving White Cuttle Uni that medical school.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yes, I saw that in our article from the Otago
Daily Times, who are obviously big supporters of Otago University.
And look, that's one set of issues that will be
in Minister's Minds alongside a series.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Coming of other I haven't got any barrier to push
here at all. In fact, I really like Neil Quigley
who runs the show. But I don't think that you
can give it to Whitkattle University. They just are not
up to it.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well. Look, under the Coalition agreement were a full cost
benefit analysis must be presented before Cabinet makes a decision
with respect to the Waycato Medical School, and ministers are
still considering advice from the Ministry of Health on that
proposal and no decisions have been made.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Do you have any idea when this is actually gonna
happen because you're sure you're fast running out of time.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Oh, we're not running out of time. Those decisions will
be made in due course.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I get what this term? Yes? This year?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Is it in this budget?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I'm now yeah, Yeah, we're getting into that game again.
Look that there will be announcements made about it this
year here though.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Oh cool? Hey did you get an invitation to Adrian
was leaving party?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
No? I didn't know what I expect to.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Has there been a cover up over his resignation?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
No, I wouldn't describe it that way. He made a
decision to resign that was communicated publicly. Ultimately, his employment
relationship is with the Reserve Bank Board and so for
it's for them to decide what it's appropriate to communicate
about that.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, so you're not actively withholding the reasons for him residing,
like you don't know and you're not telling us that's
not happening.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, that's right from my perspective, I was informed that
he had made the decision to resign.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You what a what plan? Next time Neil comes in,
Neil quickly from why Cutwell University comes in to talk
to you about money for the medical school? Can you
ask him, tell him to put his hat on as
the chair of the Reserve Bank and ask him why
Adrian left? And then I can ask.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You, you know, I think anyone speculating on that where
whether it's Nil or in any the Treasury Secretary or
me or anyone else, we might have our interpretation. But
ultimately the person who knows his reasons for himself is Adrian,
and he hesitates. Well, I think that how he articulated
(08:34):
that is for him, and the fact that he has
chosen not to go into detail about that makes it
pretty challenging. For any of us to put words in
his mouth why, because we would be speculating and his
reasons for his resignation are ultimately.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Seriously telling Menafo that what he did was he was like,
I quit and he didn't say why he didn't. He
didn't give you guys any reason why.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Well, I anticipate, well, I know that there we're discussions
with the Reserve Bank Board about that. But as I said,
that is for the Reserve Bank Board to communicate about,
it's not for me.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Okay, Hey, Nicola, thank you very much, really appreciate it
very much. Looking forward to the information you've given out.
Thomas Coglin. That's Nicola Willis, Finance Minister. For more from
Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
With us.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Now is Nichola Willis the Finance minister? Hey Nicola, Hi Heather,
Now Nicola, do you send any of your person your
emails to your Gmail account? Bony chance.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Look, I don't think so. To be honest, I don't
send many emails at all. I've got an incredible team
of people who do that for me. I tend to
send the odd text or what's that message? And that's
about it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Really, How do you get away with not doing emails?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Well? I do them very rarely, and that's because I
either am briefing officials face to face saying could you
get me this? Could do that please, I'm meeting with
people face to face, or I'm talking to my team
and saying, oh, look, could you just make sure that
that minister's aware of this. Sometimes we do formal correspondents
letters and the like, but very rarely am I sitting
(00:45):
at my keyboard writing an email.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So do you just have a person who you say,
can you please email Chris back and say to Chris, yep,
I'll be there for his announcement about blah blah on
that day.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, it's not so we don't so much communicate in
that way. So information comes to me in hard copy
from my agencies. My diary is there obviously in my calendar.
And then I have a lot of verbal briefings, a
lot of written briefings, a lot of discussions with colleagues
on a daily basis, face to face.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
What about in your personal life? Don't you get like
your power company emailing you? And second, we've got to
come around and fix the power box is Monday ten o'clock. Okay,
Oh sure.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I use a Gmail account for some of that stuff.
You know, the notices from school where the child A
has been well behaved, your child be has been bad.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Do you wag or do you just not?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I occasionally have, especially if it's nice news.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You just leave news.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well. Look, the way I think about it is, if
something's urgent, you're going to get on the phone. If
something's important to the relationship, you're probably going to be
face to face or having a conversation. Email can be
quite an impersonal way of communicating. It's hard to get
a sense of tone. I do use it sometimes, but
it's definitely not my most common mode.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Acsually, you're a baller. You've described my best life. I'm
going to stop emailing henceforth and just say if it's
good for the Finance minister, it's good for me. Now
listen David Seymour. I loved his idea of cutting the
ministerial portfolios. Right. He wants to get rid of the
economic growth portfolio, I would assume because it's not necessary,
is it?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, I think it is necessary. It's been very useful
being able to take an overall view of the work
happening across multiple portfolios to drive economic growth, to ensure
we're prioritizing the right thanks driving it forward. Well, having
a specific portfolio dedicated to that has meant that I've
had officials ensuring that we're engaging with businesses, that we
(02:39):
are responding to their specific concerns that they're raising. And
in fact, some of that then leads to policy ideas
being put on the agenda that wouldn't otherwise be there.
And look, there are always debates about do you integrate
it all into one portfolio or have separate portfolios. In
my case, Treasury provide me fiscal advice and economic advice
and MB support me and the economics that'll.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Alarm you though, I mean, like the basically everybody in
government should be aiming for economic growth. That's how we're
going to get more money into the country. The fact
that you have to have it as a job title
to make them think about it is kind of freaky,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well? I agree everyone should, but there are always questions
about are we prioritizing the things that are going to
most turn the dial because there are literally one hundred
things every minister could do each day. So let's make
sure we're focusing on the things that are most important
and take opportunities to be really clear about what that
program is, whether we're on track, what the obstacles are
(03:35):
and are found. It's a useful way of driving activity.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Thomas Coglan says that you're going to means test the
government's key we save a contribution to cut people off
who earn above one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. Is
it true?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
He wrote that article off the back of a interview
I had with you last week, and what I pledge
to both him and will pledge to you now is
I am not going to play the rule and rule
out game between now and Budget day, because what you
can see is that anything I say or do in
that nature is going to be poured over. It's going
(04:06):
to be raked over. But what I can tell you
is that I have given Thomas a specific chunky saving
that we are making in the budget for him to
run in your sister publication, the New Zealand Herald tomorrow morning.
It accounts for a billion dollars worth of money over
the next four years that will now be available for
health and education services and other good things. And I
(04:28):
think when New Zealanders read about that savings and I
should have, they'll say, good on you, very good doing this.
Shut that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You're doing this because he's harping on about this means
testing stuff and you're like, just give him something to
just satisfy him.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, well, look, when people are agree not to play
the rule in and rule out game, there can be
all sorts of rewards.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Here she was, Hey, listen, how big is our structural deficit?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, we will update that figure at the budget. The
structural deficit, for those listening, is the difference between what
we're earning in terms of revenue from tax and other
sources and what we're spending in terms of the commitments
government has to funding things and what you expect is
that when an economy is in a downturn, it's not
unusual for it to go into deficit. So a structural
(05:14):
deficit is saying even if the economy ticked up, we
still think that New Zealand would be spending more. And
that's that's the position the last Labor government left us in.
And what I can tell you is we are making
really good progress in reducing that structural deficit in the
budget and will update on that figure at budget time.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Okay, so when do you think we will stop running
a structural deficit?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Well, I will update that at budget time as well
as of.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Previous you can see we insight yes.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Because as I've said, we're going to have the box
back into balance with a very very lean surplus in
twenty twenty nine, and that reflects the fact that in
that year will be earning enough to meet our spending commitments.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, have you seen the tertiary ed Education Commission warning
about giving White Cuttle Uni that medical school.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yes, I saw that in our article from the Otago
Daily Times, who are obviously big supporters of Otago University.
And look, that's one set of issues that will be
in Minister's Minds alongside a series.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Coming of other I haven't got any barrier to push
here at all. In fact, I really like Neil Quigley
who runs the show. But I don't think that you
can give it to Whitkattle University. They just are not
up to it.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well. Look, under the Coalition agreement were a full cost
benefit analysis must be presented before Cabinet makes a decision
with respect to the Waycato Medical School, and ministers are
still considering advice from the Ministry of Health on that
proposal and no decisions have been made.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Do you have any idea when this is actually gonna
happen because you're sure you're fast running out of time.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Oh, we're not running out of time. Those decisions will
be made in due course.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I get what this term? Yes? This year?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Is it in this budget?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I'm now yeah, Yeah, we're getting into that game again.
Look that there will be announcements made about it this
year here though.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Oh cool? Hey did you get an invitation to Adrian
was leaving party?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
No? I didn't know what I expect to.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Has there been a cover up over his resignation?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
No, I wouldn't describe it that way. He made a
decision to resign that was communicated publicly. Ultimately, his employment
relationship is with the Reserve Bank Board and so for
it's for them to decide what it's appropriate to communicate
about that.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, so you're not actively withholding the reasons for him residing,
like you don't know and you're not telling us that's
not happening.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, that's right from my perspective, I was informed that
he had made the decision to resign.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You what a what plan? Next time Neil comes in,
Neil quickly from why Cutwell University comes in to talk
to you about money for the medical school? Can you
ask him, tell him to put his hat on as
the chair of the Reserve Bank and ask him why
Adrian left? And then I can ask.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You, you know, I think anyone speculating on that where
whether it's Nil or in any the Treasury Secretary or
me or anyone else, we might have our interpretation. But
ultimately the person who knows his reasons for himself is Adrian,
and he hesitates. Well, I think that how he articulated
(08:34):
that is for him, and the fact that he has
chosen not to go into detail about that makes it
pretty challenging. For any of us to put words in
his mouth why, because we would be speculating and his
reasons for his resignation are ultimately.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Seriously telling Menafo that what he did was he was like,
I quit and he didn't say why he didn't. He
didn't give you guys any reason why.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Well, I anticipate, well, I know that there we're discussions
with the Reserve Bank Board about that. But as I said,
that is for the Reserve Bank Board to communicate about,
it's not for me.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Okay, Hey, Nicola, thank you very much, really appreciate it
very much. Looking forward to the information you've given out.
Thomas Coglin. That's Nicola Willis, Finance Minister. For more from
Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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