October 28, 2025 • 7 mins
Governing parties have been quick to condemn Labour's proposed capital gains tax policy.
The opposition announced the policy for next year's election campaign, targeting commercial and investment properties, but not family homes.
It would funnel the revenue into health.
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has been quick to label this scheme as 'half-baked' - and it'll likely drive the country further into debt.
"I'm just pleased that New Zealand today can see Labour's alternative for what it is. It's a Labour-Te Pāti Māori-Greens Government that will tax you more, drive the country further into debt and put the economy at risk."
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And with us now is Nichola Willis the Finance Minister.
(00:02):
High Nikola Hi, Heather.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I listened to your interview with Chris Hipkins, and I'd
just like to point out to him page eight of
his own policy which he released today, which said that
commercial and residential properties will get an opening value on
valuation day. So his policy is already falling apart because
(00:24):
that is actually what it says, and he didn't know
that detail. He also said that if you sell a
commercial property, you won't pay CGT if you buy a
new one. Well, that's completely different from what the Tax
Working Group said, which means their costings have already fallen apart.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Right, OK, so that this is the rollover relief. So
are you saying that this means that Do you think
that they have in factored this into their own numbers?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, I think that he's making it up as he
goes along. This is classical labor. This is half baked.
It's key. We build like it's Oh, look, he has
an extra tax. It will solve all the world's problems. Well,
because we Zeelanders are smart, you think so?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Do you think that they have largely lifted the Tax
Working Group's workings here, they've just nicked them and then
they lose money.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So based on their own statements today, they've based their
costings on the Tax Working Group proposal, and that proposal,
if you sold a property and received a gain on it,
you would pay a tax. What he said in your
interview was if you sold a commercial property, but you
then bought a new one, you wouldn't pay tax on
(01:32):
the previous sale. That's completely different from what the Tax
Working Group said. Now he's either mucked up because he
doesn't know his own policy, or his costings have already
fallen apart, and this is going to be even more
of a disaster than we'd already imagined.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So I was going to ask you the first question
I was going to be. I was going to ask you,
was how stoked to you that they've released a capital
gains tax policy to? I don't think I need to
I can hear it in your voice.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, look, here's the thing. We know that Labor for
years has been tempted by this forbidden fruit, which is,
let's just tax hard working people more. They love that,
but previous prime ministers under Labor have seen that that's
ultimately not a good idea, and today Chris Hipkins gave
into the temptation. He's dipped his hand into the forbidden
(02:20):
cookie jar. And we all know when you do that,
you don't stop at one cookie, do you? You keep going.
And he's already said today that he's not ruling out
additional taxes as part of Labour's broader fiscal plan. So
I'm just pleased that New Zealand today can see Labour's
alternative for what it is. It's a Labor to Party
(02:41):
Marty Greens government that will tax you more, drive the
country further into debt, and put the economy at risk.
And we have an alternative which is about building confidence,
backing those people with aspiration, backing savers and investors, and
ensuring we have a strong economy that benefits us.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Now has in New Zealand's news. You CEO spoken to
you yet about subsidizing the regional roots.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No, he hasn't, And I would characterize his comments as
more thinking loud than a formal proposal, And I would
expect that if your New Zealand were to make a
proposal like that, it would be properly thought through. And
my first response would be, have you done everything you
(03:27):
can to get your own house in order commercially, and
I'm not convinced at the stage that they have. Do
you reckon?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
They're just trying this on because they're going to have
to shut down some regional routes by the sounds of
things at some stage. And if they do that, then
they can blame you guys, because you didn't want to
subsidize it. Is that what's going on here?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, here's the thing. Around the world, there are airlines
that are making pretty good profits right now in New
Zealand hasn't been. He made those comments off the back
of a really poor financial result, and so I guess
he's reaching for answers. Well, the answer isn't to take
money away from schools, hospitals and other essential public services.
(04:09):
The answer is for in New Zealand to deliver its
own commercial offering more efficiently and better.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Now, I saw last week the Social Media Band Bill
has been drawn out of the Biscuit Tin. So when
can we expect that to be law?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it's been drawn out of the Biscuit tin, so
that means that it will go on the order paper
and on the members Days, which are every second Wednesday,
it'll eventually come up for first reading. Then it will
go off to a select committee for consideration and deliberation.
So you shouldn't expect it to be law anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Why not prioritize it.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, what we're doing is two things. The first is
that members bill process, which I think will be constructive
and helpful. The other thing is that the government itself
is leading its own work in this area. Erica Stanford
is leading that work, and so I think there could
be an opportunity for the government to decide on its
(05:07):
own measures in this area. But I don't want to
take away from Catherine Wedd's bill. I think she's putting
an important issue on the table that there is a
discussion that the public want to have. I know plenty
of mum and dads are really worried about the harm
that results from kids being online all the time. But
how this comes together into a law is you know,
(05:29):
there's a bit of order to go under that bridge.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Okay, so is this something you might take to the election?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Look potentially, But as I say, there's a government minister
working on these issues right now. But this is a
priority area for national We've heard loud and clear from
mums and dads that they're worried about social media harm
and we do want to do what we can sensibly
to address it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, now you're not seriously considering shutting down glory of
l are you.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Well, No, what's happening is there's a group of ministers
who are responding to the fact that when the Royal
Commission did its inquiry into abuse and state care, they
specifically called out the issues of abuse at Gloria Vail
and pointed to the need for a coordinated approach to
that because obviously it's not just an issue for or
(06:17):
ung A Tamariki, it's also an issue for the Ministry
of Education, the Ministry for Social Development, a range of
government agencies. So those ministers are responding to that recommendation
by working together with the sole goal of preventing children
from being abused or being hearted.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yes, and one of them said, they're not ruling out
shutting it down, but under what law could you possibly
shut it down?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, I think that there could be particular functions that,
if they don't meet the legal requirements, could stop, like schools,
for example.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But that doesn't shut a community down. You can still
homeschool the kids.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, that's right, and so.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I think shut it down, can you.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, we can make sure that the laws of the
land are upheld and that requires being quite active, getting
in there and seeing what's really happening, working with the
leaders to ensure that kids there are safe.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, Hey, thank you, Nicola, I appreciate it. Nichola Willis,
Finance Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
And with us now is Nichola Willis the Finance Minister.
(00:02):
High Nikola Hi, Heather.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I listened to your interview with Chris Hipkins, and I'd
just like to point out to him page eight of
his own policy which he released today, which said that
commercial and residential properties will get an opening value on
valuation day. So his policy is already falling apart because
(00:24):
that is actually what it says, and he didn't know
that detail. He also said that if you sell a
commercial property, you won't pay CGT if you buy a
new one. Well, that's completely different from what the Tax
Working Group said, which means their costings have already fallen apart.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Right, OK, so that this is the rollover relief. So
are you saying that this means that Do you think
that they have in factored this into their own numbers?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, I think that he's making it up as he
goes along. This is classical labor. This is half baked.
It's key. We build like it's Oh, look, he has
an extra tax. It will solve all the world's problems. Well,
because we Zeelanders are smart, you think so?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Do you think that they have largely lifted the Tax
Working Group's workings here, they've just nicked them and then
they lose money.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So based on their own statements today, they've based their
costings on the Tax Working Group proposal, and that proposal,
if you sold a property and received a gain on it,
you would pay a tax. What he said in your
interview was if you sold a commercial property, but you
then bought a new one, you wouldn't pay tax on
(01:32):
the previous sale. That's completely different from what the Tax
Working Group said. Now he's either mucked up because he
doesn't know his own policy, or his costings have already
fallen apart, and this is going to be even more
of a disaster than we'd already imagined.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So I was going to ask you the first question
I was going to be. I was going to ask you,
was how stoked to you that they've released a capital
gains tax policy to? I don't think I need to
I can hear it in your voice.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, look, here's the thing. We know that Labor for
years has been tempted by this forbidden fruit, which is,
let's just tax hard working people more. They love that,
but previous prime ministers under Labor have seen that that's
ultimately not a good idea, and today Chris Hipkins gave
into the temptation. He's dipped his hand into the forbidden
(02:20):
cookie jar. And we all know when you do that,
you don't stop at one cookie, do you? You keep going.
And he's already said today that he's not ruling out
additional taxes as part of Labour's broader fiscal plan. So
I'm just pleased that New Zealand today can see Labour's
alternative for what it is. It's a Labor to Party
(02:41):
Marty Greens government that will tax you more, drive the
country further into debt, and put the economy at risk.
And we have an alternative which is about building confidence,
backing those people with aspiration, backing savers and investors, and
ensuring we have a strong economy that benefits us.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Now has in New Zealand's news. You CEO spoken to
you yet about subsidizing the regional roots.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No, he hasn't, And I would characterize his comments as
more thinking loud than a formal proposal, And I would
expect that if your New Zealand were to make a
proposal like that, it would be properly thought through. And
my first response would be, have you done everything you
(03:27):
can to get your own house in order commercially, and
I'm not convinced at the stage that they have. Do
you reckon?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
They're just trying this on because they're going to have
to shut down some regional routes by the sounds of
things at some stage. And if they do that, then
they can blame you guys, because you didn't want to
subsidize it. Is that what's going on here?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, here's the thing. Around the world, there are airlines
that are making pretty good profits right now in New
Zealand hasn't been. He made those comments off the back
of a really poor financial result, and so I guess
he's reaching for answers. Well, the answer isn't to take
money away from schools, hospitals and other essential public services.
(04:09):
The answer is for in New Zealand to deliver its
own commercial offering more efficiently and better.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Now, I saw last week the Social Media Band Bill
has been drawn out of the Biscuit Tin. So when
can we expect that to be law?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it's been drawn out of the Biscuit tin, so
that means that it will go on the order paper
and on the members Days, which are every second Wednesday,
it'll eventually come up for first reading. Then it will
go off to a select committee for consideration and deliberation.
So you shouldn't expect it to be law anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Why not prioritize it.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, what we're doing is two things. The first is
that members bill process, which I think will be constructive
and helpful. The other thing is that the government itself
is leading its own work in this area. Erica Stanford
is leading that work, and so I think there could
be an opportunity for the government to decide on its
(05:07):
own measures in this area. But I don't want to
take away from Catherine Wedd's bill. I think she's putting
an important issue on the table that there is a
discussion that the public want to have. I know plenty
of mum and dads are really worried about the harm
that results from kids being online all the time. But
how this comes together into a law is you know,
(05:29):
there's a bit of order to go under that bridge.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Okay, so is this something you might take to the election?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Look potentially, But as I say, there's a government minister
working on these issues right now. But this is a
priority area for national We've heard loud and clear from
mums and dads that they're worried about social media harm
and we do want to do what we can sensibly
to address it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, now you're not seriously considering shutting down glory of
l are you.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Well, No, what's happening is there's a group of ministers
who are responding to the fact that when the Royal
Commission did its inquiry into abuse and state care, they
specifically called out the issues of abuse at Gloria Vail
and pointed to the need for a coordinated approach to
that because obviously it's not just an issue for or
(06:17):
ung A Tamariki, it's also an issue for the Ministry
of Education, the Ministry for Social Development, a range of
government agencies. So those ministers are responding to that recommendation
by working together with the sole goal of preventing children
from being abused or being hearted.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yes, and one of them said, they're not ruling out
shutting it down, but under what law could you possibly
shut it down?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, I think that there could be particular functions that,
if they don't meet the legal requirements, could stop, like schools,
for example.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But that doesn't shut a community down. You can still
homeschool the kids.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, that's right, and so.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I think shut it down, can you.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, we can make sure that the laws of the
land are upheld and that requires being quite active, getting
in there and seeing what's really happening, working with the
leaders to ensure that kids there are safe.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, Hey, thank you, Nicola, I appreciate it. Nichola Willis,
Finance Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!