June 23, 2025 • 10 mins
The Finance Minister's keeping a close eye on the economic impact of volatility in the Middle East.
Economists worry it will impact oil, driving up prices at the pump for Kiwis.
Nicola Willis says this is a concern.
"Our position now is that we support all efforts at diplomacy and de-escalation. That is good for the world."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nicola Willis Finance Minster Hei Nekeler Hi, Nicola, what's our
government's position on the US bombing.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, we continue to be a strong supporter of the
international rule based order. At the same time, we've consistently
opposed Iran's nuclear program along with other countries, and we
believe that Iran should never possess a nuke. And we've
acknowledged the US statement to the UN Security Council that
it was acting in collective self defense consistent with the
(00:28):
UN Charter. And our position now as we support all
efforts at diplomacy and de escalation, that is good for
the world.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Okay, So we're not doing the same as the Australians are.
They're backing the US bombing. We're not doing that.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well. I think Penny Wog's made statements today Obviously the
basis of her position is similar, and that the Australia
also like New Zealand, has consistently opposed Iran's nuclear program.
They are continuing to call for diplomacy and dialogue. They
too support the real based order. So made me quote
(01:02):
statement today.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Let me quote Anthony Albanezi for you. He said the
world has long agreed Iran cannot be allowed to get
a nuclear weapon. We support action to prevent that. That
is what this is.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well backing sure that our Foreign minister will continue to
make comments in the coming days as the situation developed.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, so we basically we need more evidence.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, Well, I think our Foreign minister is continuing to
take briefings and observe the situation, and we've made our
position on a number of principled matters very clear, and
we will continue to comment in response to events as
they unfold.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Do we believe they were trying to make a nuke?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, that is certainly what the US have said, and
I cannot give you access to any particular information that
I've received or briefing that I've received on that matter,
So I can simply say that that was the position
of the US.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, if we accept that they were probably, come on,
I mean, like circumstantially, it looks like they were trying
to make a nuke, right, and they have a good
motive to try to make.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They had bunkers under the ground, didn't they, So.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Of a little c Yeah, and as well as that,
I mean, you know, a you could prevent this kind
of thing happening to them, so they have good reason
to want to make a nuke. Now, if they are
trying to make a nuke, what other option did we
Was there another option rather than just bombing them?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, of course, our long standing position has been that
we support diplomatic efforts rather than military efforts, and wherever
that is possible, that's what we are what we support,
and countries will make decisions based on when they think
those diplomatic efforts are no longer working and when threats
are real. And in this case, the US had viewed
(02:38):
that there was a real threat and that they needed
to take action and self defense.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Hey, so that GDP figure last week was kind of heartening.
Do you think that we're through the worst of this recession?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, look, I think we were doing very well in
the first three months of the year. For context, we
doubled the growth rate that Treasury had forecast and we
were at zero point eight, whereas Australia was only at
zero point two in the first three months of the year.
So we were doing really well. That domestic recovery was underway.
But I'm acutely conscious that as of April we had
(03:10):
the US tariffs and that provides real headwinds to New
Zealand's growth, and what you've seen since then is a
downgrade in confidence in some other activity measures. So my
message has been, actually, the fundamentals here are really good.
The recovery has been underway, and the worst thing we
can do now is all tuck up into our corners,
(03:32):
put our heads down and not be confident. Actually, yep,
the world's throwing stuff at us, but this is a
good place to be doing business and we have every
reason to keep in bested.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Is that what you're worried about it? You worried about
it like a confidence that you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, I always worry that when international events are unfolding
in the way that they are currently, that just creates uncertainty.
Very naturally, businesses look at that uncertainty and they say, well,
I'm not sure what that means, and then that in
itself feeds into a left of activity. I can't change
that reality. Businesses will make their own decisions. But my
message is the fundamentals and our economy relative to other
(04:08):
economies in the world, are looking good. We've had stable inflation,
interest rates have come down, we've got a pro growth,
government investments coming in commodity prices are high. Those factors
continue to be the case. We can't control what the
world throws at us, but we can control what we
do here at home.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Do you worry about stagflation because I see asb is
worried about it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, I do worry about the inflationary pressure that could
occur if there was a spike in oil prices, and
the challenges that would create for our economy. And I'm
conscious that, as I said, our economic recovery is only
just underway. But I am confident that the Reserve Bank
still has a lot of room to make decisions in
relation to inflation, and that we've got very sound fiscal
(04:51):
and economic management here. That means that we've got more
buffers than some might around the world.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, it is kind of happening. Now, Have you got
yourself across what ACT is trying to do making it
easier for bosses to fire staff earning one hundred and
eighty thousand dollars plus. Yes, I have.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
This is a bill that has been introduced as a
consequence of our coalition agreement with the ACT, and essentially
what it proposes is an income threshold of one hundred
and eighty k or more above which you can only
do a personal grievance if it's for discrimination or harassment
or one of those grounds, But you can't lodge a
(05:29):
personal grievance for unjustified dismissal. It's a change that has
been reportedly pursued in Australia where apparently it's been quite
effective at supporting open and frank conversations between what are
highly paid senior employees.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Are you ok with this? You guys going to support this?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Are you well? It is obviously supported in that we're
introducing the legislation that's a cabinet agreement to do that.
We will, of course, as we always do, pay attention
to the select committee process. But the intention here is
to support businesses to be able to move on people
who are standing in the way.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Hold on. You guys and the ACT Party are the
two parties that are the most about ambition in this country.
Get yourself up, get yourself earning money, be rich, right,
it's about it's about absolutely. You guys are about celebrating
people's success. So how come when people start to be successful,
we go, I'll treat you differently. You can get fired
(06:26):
more easily. How does that square off.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You absolutely national as a party of aspiration. Part of
that is about allowing employers to give workers a go
in a high impact senior position by five earned no,
but without being concerned that if it doesn't work out,
there will be a very costly, very disruptive week.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Give the nineteen day trial.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
What are you talking about, Well, this is about promoting
people into high impact positions and judging their performance. So
our view is, yes, we want to see people these
senior roles. We want to see them performing well in
these roles.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Can I put it to you that for a party
that's about ambition, you're going pretty hard, making it hard,
making life a lot harder for people on one eighty
plus than people who aren't. Right, you're taking benefits away
from them, your income test, your means testing at one
eighty and now you're saying people can get fired. And
actually I would have thought those are the very people
who need to be more sure of their jobs, given
(07:23):
that they're probably raising families at that level.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, of course, most of those people can be very
confident in their jobs. Actually, what this is about is
them not being able to claim an unjustified dismissal as
a personal grievance. It is a very very small group
of people to whom that applies. If they are mistreated
in their work because of discrimination or harassment, they still
(07:46):
have all legal right to raise a personal grievance. And
at the same time, many of these employees who are
on those high wages are there because they have high
degrees of skill and experience and are highly employed.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
All right, did you get the price that will carpet
for us? No?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I did not, But I have read the same reports
that you have that it is a Breamworth manufacturer who's
sealed that deal and it's going to lead to their factory,
including an wang Annoy operation.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
No, no, no, don't give me the spin. I hear
your spin. I hear it coming at me.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
That's just the truth. Here.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Are you going just be honest with me? Are you
going to get me the price or not?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I have double checked this, triple jets, this and every
statement I have made has been verified. Which is the
price for the new contract is no more than they
were paying for nylon.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's a deal here. That No, no, you can I
want to know the price per square meter.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I don't believe you, But did you know the price
per square meter of the old contract and can you
all sense but you don't know all the terms and
conditions of the contract price. Look, I trust that in
this instance that they can't. No, no, no, I'm not
providing I'm not providing any evasion. I have absolutely scrutinized this.
(09:15):
I've said, can I make the claim to all of
the listeners to news talks B you have this isn't
actually resulting in a high price, And they've said absolutely.
In fact, when you look at the overall retenders, they
are coming in just a little bit cheaper.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Oh nonsense. I don't believe the contracts. Do you want
Do you want to come? I can only repeat you.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
The advice I've received. No.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But the longer this goes on the mid it looks
you know that.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
No, I'm not going to get into the practice of
revealing the commercial terms of private contracts.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I believe, and have you one more chance. I'll give
you one more chance. N I'll ask you.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I'm going to keep giving you the benefit of the doubt, too,
which is that one day you're going to come around
to the idea that a good contract that delivers wholesome, sustainable,
healthy will to new Zealand houses and supports our sheep
industry is just a good thing. There's no need to
pick the eyes out of it. Thank you, just a
happy day.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Thank you here that I appreciate your time. As always,
Nikola Willis, Finance Minister. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Nicola Willis Finance Minster Hei Nekeler Hi, Nicola, what's our
government's position on the US bombing.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, we continue to be a strong supporter of the
international rule based order. At the same time, we've consistently
opposed Iran's nuclear program along with other countries, and we
believe that Iran should never possess a nuke. And we've
acknowledged the US statement to the UN Security Council that
it was acting in collective self defense consistent with the
(00:28):
UN Charter. And our position now as we support all
efforts at diplomacy and de escalation, that is good for
the world.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Okay, So we're not doing the same as the Australians are.
They're backing the US bombing. We're not doing that.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well. I think Penny Wog's made statements today Obviously the
basis of her position is similar, and that the Australia
also like New Zealand, has consistently opposed Iran's nuclear program.
They are continuing to call for diplomacy and dialogue. They
too support the real based order. So made me quote
(01:02):
statement today.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Let me quote Anthony Albanezi for you. He said the
world has long agreed Iran cannot be allowed to get
a nuclear weapon. We support action to prevent that. That
is what this is.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well backing sure that our Foreign minister will continue to
make comments in the coming days as the situation developed.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, so we basically we need more evidence.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, Well, I think our Foreign minister is continuing to
take briefings and observe the situation, and we've made our
position on a number of principled matters very clear, and
we will continue to comment in response to events as
they unfold.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Do we believe they were trying to make a nuke?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, that is certainly what the US have said, and
I cannot give you access to any particular information that
I've received or briefing that I've received on that matter,
So I can simply say that that was the position
of the US.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, if we accept that they were probably, come on,
I mean, like circumstantially, it looks like they were trying
to make a nuke, right, and they have a good
motive to try to make.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They had bunkers under the ground, didn't they, So.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Of a little c Yeah, and as well as that,
I mean, you know, a you could prevent this kind
of thing happening to them, so they have good reason
to want to make a nuke. Now, if they are
trying to make a nuke, what other option did we
Was there another option rather than just bombing them?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, of course, our long standing position has been that
we support diplomatic efforts rather than military efforts, and wherever
that is possible, that's what we are what we support,
and countries will make decisions based on when they think
those diplomatic efforts are no longer working and when threats
are real. And in this case, the US had viewed
(02:38):
that there was a real threat and that they needed
to take action and self defense.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Hey, so that GDP figure last week was kind of heartening.
Do you think that we're through the worst of this recession?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, look, I think we were doing very well in
the first three months of the year. For context, we
doubled the growth rate that Treasury had forecast and we
were at zero point eight, whereas Australia was only at
zero point two in the first three months of the year.
So we were doing really well. That domestic recovery was underway.
But I'm acutely conscious that as of April we had
(03:10):
the US tariffs and that provides real headwinds to New
Zealand's growth, and what you've seen since then is a
downgrade in confidence in some other activity measures. So my
message has been, actually, the fundamentals here are really good.
The recovery has been underway, and the worst thing we
can do now is all tuck up into our corners,
(03:32):
put our heads down and not be confident. Actually, yep,
the world's throwing stuff at us, but this is a
good place to be doing business and we have every
reason to keep in bested.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Is that what you're worried about it? You worried about
it like a confidence that you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, I always worry that when international events are unfolding
in the way that they are currently, that just creates uncertainty.
Very naturally, businesses look at that uncertainty and they say, well,
I'm not sure what that means, and then that in
itself feeds into a left of activity. I can't change
that reality. Businesses will make their own decisions. But my
message is the fundamentals and our economy relative to other
(04:08):
economies in the world, are looking good. We've had stable inflation,
interest rates have come down, we've got a pro growth,
government investments coming in commodity prices are high. Those factors
continue to be the case. We can't control what the
world throws at us, but we can control what we
do here at home.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Do you worry about stagflation because I see asb is
worried about it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, I do worry about the inflationary pressure that could
occur if there was a spike in oil prices, and
the challenges that would create for our economy. And I'm
conscious that, as I said, our economic recovery is only
just underway. But I am confident that the Reserve Bank
still has a lot of room to make decisions in
relation to inflation, and that we've got very sound fiscal
(04:51):
and economic management here. That means that we've got more
buffers than some might around the world.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, it is kind of happening. Now, Have you got
yourself across what ACT is trying to do making it
easier for bosses to fire staff earning one hundred and
eighty thousand dollars plus. Yes, I have.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
This is a bill that has been introduced as a
consequence of our coalition agreement with the ACT, and essentially
what it proposes is an income threshold of one hundred
and eighty k or more above which you can only
do a personal grievance if it's for discrimination or harassment
or one of those grounds, But you can't lodge a
(05:29):
personal grievance for unjustified dismissal. It's a change that has
been reportedly pursued in Australia where apparently it's been quite
effective at supporting open and frank conversations between what are
highly paid senior employees.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Are you ok with this? You guys going to support this?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Are you well? It is obviously supported in that we're
introducing the legislation that's a cabinet agreement to do that.
We will, of course, as we always do, pay attention
to the select committee process. But the intention here is
to support businesses to be able to move on people
who are standing in the way.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Hold on. You guys and the ACT Party are the
two parties that are the most about ambition in this country.
Get yourself up, get yourself earning money, be rich, right,
it's about it's about absolutely. You guys are about celebrating
people's success. So how come when people start to be successful,
we go, I'll treat you differently. You can get fired
(06:26):
more easily. How does that square off.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You absolutely national as a party of aspiration. Part of
that is about allowing employers to give workers a go
in a high impact senior position by five earned no,
but without being concerned that if it doesn't work out,
there will be a very costly, very disruptive week.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Give the nineteen day trial.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
What are you talking about, Well, this is about promoting
people into high impact positions and judging their performance. So
our view is, yes, we want to see people these
senior roles. We want to see them performing well in
these roles.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Can I put it to you that for a party
that's about ambition, you're going pretty hard, making it hard,
making life a lot harder for people on one eighty
plus than people who aren't. Right, you're taking benefits away
from them, your income test, your means testing at one
eighty and now you're saying people can get fired. And
actually I would have thought those are the very people
who need to be more sure of their jobs, given
(07:23):
that they're probably raising families at that level.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, of course, most of those people can be very
confident in their jobs. Actually, what this is about is
them not being able to claim an unjustified dismissal as
a personal grievance. It is a very very small group
of people to whom that applies. If they are mistreated
in their work because of discrimination or harassment, they still
(07:46):
have all legal right to raise a personal grievance. And
at the same time, many of these employees who are
on those high wages are there because they have high
degrees of skill and experience and are highly employed.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
All right, did you get the price that will carpet
for us? No?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I did not, But I have read the same reports
that you have that it is a Breamworth manufacturer who's
sealed that deal and it's going to lead to their factory,
including an wang Annoy operation.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
No, no, no, don't give me the spin. I hear
your spin. I hear it coming at me.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
That's just the truth. Here.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Are you going just be honest with me? Are you
going to get me the price or not?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I have double checked this, triple jets, this and every
statement I have made has been verified. Which is the
price for the new contract is no more than they
were paying for nylon.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's a deal here. That No, no, you can I
want to know the price per square meter.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I don't believe you, But did you know the price
per square meter of the old contract and can you
all sense but you don't know all the terms and
conditions of the contract price. Look, I trust that in
this instance that they can't. No, no, no, I'm not
providing I'm not providing any evasion. I have absolutely scrutinized this.
(09:15):
I've said, can I make the claim to all of
the listeners to news talks B you have this isn't
actually resulting in a high price, And they've said absolutely.
In fact, when you look at the overall retenders, they
are coming in just a little bit cheaper.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Oh nonsense. I don't believe the contracts. Do you want
Do you want to come? I can only repeat you.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
The advice I've received. No.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But the longer this goes on the mid it looks
you know that.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
No, I'm not going to get into the practice of
revealing the commercial terms of private contracts.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I believe, and have you one more chance. I'll give
you one more chance. N I'll ask you.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I'm going to keep giving you the benefit of the doubt, too,
which is that one day you're going to come around
to the idea that a good contract that delivers wholesome, sustainable,
healthy will to new Zealand houses and supports our sheep
industry is just a good thing. There's no need to
pick the eyes out of it. Thank you, just a
happy day.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Thank you here that I appreciate your time. As always,
Nikola Willis, Finance Minister. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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