Peter Boshier: Chief Ombudsman on his call for stronger penalties for government departments that delay the release of official information

The Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier is leaving his role next month after 10 years in the role.

The current Government asked him to stay in the role after he quit last year as he approaches 72, the oldest someone can be in the position.

His ten year term is coming to an end once and for all and he has a strong parting message.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right now. He's the man who makes sure that we
get the truth. The chief Onboardsman, Peter Bouch shares his name.
He's leaving his role this month after ten years in
the job. He quit you'll remember last year. But because
the onboardsman can't be older than seventy two by law.
It's a really weird archaic law, but it's true. The
current government asked him to stay on anyway, and now

(00:22):
his term is finally coming to an end. Has parting
message a call for stiffer penalties on government departments that
delay and get around the release of official information. Peter
bouches with me this evening, good evening, Good evening, Ryan,
How does it feel knowing you're too old for this? Now?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
The funny thing is I don't feel too old. So
when it comes to whether I'm still enjoying the job
and whether I have the answer of yes in both respects, I.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Want to get some juice out of you while we've
got you. Who's the worst minister thataay, who's the worst
minister or ministry?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
And Ryan, I'm not even going to begin to answer
that one, So you know me. One of the reasons
that I think we've done well, in this job is
we've never gone to the person. We've always gone for
the issue, and that's what I'll always continue to do.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Come on, you must you must have someone. You must
have a little black bok of ministers that you'd you know,
you'd like to expose.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Now, this is a good thing. I don't have a
black book. And everything we do is out there and transparent.
So I'm I know why you're asking me, and the
answer is everything that we do is transparent. There's no secrecy.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay. Then on a personal level, what are summer Well,
what is the worst you think cover up for want
of a better word, that you've come across.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Now, I want to say this to you. I don't
think we have cover ups in this country. I know
some other countries do. But the whole of the time
that I've done this job, since the end of two
thousand and fifteen, there is a level of transparency that
I think we can be thankful for. Where we have
to watch it is the fact that we've decreased in

(02:10):
our transparency ratings. We're once one, we are now down
to number four. We need to watch it run because
in some recent bills before Parliament that I've submitted on
there are carve outs of the OIA that ministers are introducing.
Now that's a slippery slope and we've got to keep
our eye on the ball.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
So most of what because we hear a lot about
the OIA, and people you know probably roll their eyes
and think, well, who cares. I mean, it is important,
but you're saying it's never really in New Zealand an
intention intentionally hiding stuff. It's more by accident or not
rather than by design.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
I want to give you and listeners a reassurance that
in all of the deep dives we've done, we've never
found a deliberate wish to not release or to cover up.
And I do think it's important that I say that
that balance up the next comment, which is that whereas
some agencies I've singled out as being very very good performers,

(03:10):
and Treasury and Department of Primers from kept our examples,
there are some that I've needed to ask them to
lift the game because they are not performing in the
spirit of this Act. And the Official Information Act is
fundamentally important that it gives you, It gives anyone who
wants to the right for accountability from decision makers, and

(03:32):
it gives you the right to have input into what's
going on. Unless you've got those rights, that's a severe infringement.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
What are you going to do next now that you're
too old for it?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Now that I'm too old? You keep saying that, I
know that I am. No, I don't feel old, and
I'll continue to be interested in what goes on around me.
I'll want to enjoy life of it. But I do
think the secret to why I've enjoyed this job so
much is because I've always chased the curious. I've always

(04:05):
wanted to be inquisitive. That's what I'll continue to do.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
And you're only seventy what not even seventy two? For
goodness sake? I mean, really, it's not old, is it.
They need to change they need to change that law.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, that's a matter. Yeah, that's very much a matter
for Parliament. But I think you're right to raise the
issue because is there a magic in an age and
the answers? I don't think there is. I think some
are who are less than seventy two in whatever probably
aren't up to it. There are some, including cabinet ministers,
who are well over seventy two, are very much onto it,

(04:40):
so I think the artificiality is a bit gross, actually.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, a bit arbitrary. Hey, well, thank you very much
for coming well over all these years. Really, Peter, it's
been great to have you on, and I know that
you've been quite fastidious in the work that you do.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, Ryan, thank you, and also hither All say, look,
it's been a plea because you're direct in your articulate
all are very busy for you as well.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Peter, thank you very much. Peter Bochhare, the outgoing chief onwardsman.
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