Ricardo Menendez-March: Green Party MP reveals caucus hasn't discussed whether to use waka-jumping laws against Darleen Tana

One member of the Greens says the caucus hasn't met for discussion on whether to invoke waka-jumping laws against Darleen Tana.

Tana has left the party, but if she won't quit Parliament, the Greens can only replace her in their MP count if the Speaker removes her, an action the Party has historically opposed.

Its report found Tana likely knew about alleged exploitation at her husband's business - E Cycles NZ - which is now in liquidation because of poor sales.

Ricardo Menendez-March says he hasn't considered putting the issue to members at the AGM.

He says it's up to members if they want to discuss it - but the right thing for Tana to do is resign.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The new government's call for more sanctions against beneficiaries who
don't meet their obligations appears to have been answered by
the Ministry of Social Development. The number of sanctions issued
by MSD in the second quarter of this year is
fifty percent higher than during the same period last year.
Social Development and Employment Minister Louise ups and says why
do use of sanctions will encourage more beneficiaries to get

(00:21):
into work? Ricardo min Indez march is the Green Party's
spokesperson for Social Development and Employment and joins us now
killed up sort of, Dak, you're not happy about this.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
We know benefit sanctions have never worked to actually support
people into employment, and all they do is actually push
people into poverty. So Louis Substan's actually talking nonsense when
she claims a bill encourage people into employment by actually
stripping away their means of survival.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Really, is it that hard to turn up for a meeting.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Let's make it clear. A lot of the people who
are on the benefit are leaving living extremely stressful lives,
often shifting motel to motel, experience and things like homelessness, violence,
or severe poverty. Some people actually in research they've talked
about how being on the benefit it's almost like a
full time job by the nature of just how many
times you have to engage work and income while you're

(01:15):
just trying to survive as well.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
So give us a worse case scenario, how much do
they have to turn up?

Speaker 3 (01:20):
What do they have to do?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, Look, often, if you're already having to choose between
your bills and paying your rent, you may not even
be able to afford, for example, to get enough money
to have credit on your phone. You may not be
able to afford the cost of transport. And at the
same time, let's not pretend that a lot of these
meetings are actually meaningful. A lot of the meetings that
people are dragged onto are TikTok exercises that don't help

(01:43):
people getting too meaningful employments. And if you're a parent
with giving responsibilities and you're forced to attend seminar after
seminar that doesn't actually help you get a job, I
can absolutely see why people are being demoralized by a
failed approach that has not worked for a decade.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
The ricarda If most of your social development doesn't apply sanctions,
what incentive is there for anyone to actually follow the
rules and meet their obligations.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, let's make this. Let's make the processes actually support
people into employment, because so far the so called obligations
on work seminnres that people have to go to have
not shown to actually help people into employment. There's also
no research that shows benefit sanctions actually help people into employment.
There's no reason here or overseas, and so I think
the first step would be to make those work seminars

(02:30):
tailored to ensure that we're connecting people into decent, safe,
well paid work rather than any shitty job, no matter
how poor it is, just for the sake of taking
a box.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Rikato, do you reckon, just philosophically, that there are some
people out there who just don't want to work.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
There may be people with complex life and caregiving arrangements,
but I don't think it's the minister's job to actually
dictate each person's individual kids.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
So, just philosophically, do you believe there are some people
receiving benefits who just don't want.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
To work, Whether there may be one or ten, it
does not. It does not mean benefits help, but benefits
sanctions have not been shown to work. Jack, So I
think just peddling with the same failed approach want to
actually help anyone. And it's also quite rich for the
government to be kicking people off work, cutting jobs and
pushing people onto a benefit well at the same time

(03:23):
doubling down a punishment and yet not being able to
substantiate the millions of dollars that go into these works
seminars that have not shown to help people into good work.
We've got plenty of reports that show that people get
just pushed into casual jobs that end up costing more
in chalthcare that are insecure as well.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, well, while we've got your Ricardo, have you have
you spoken to any of the other Green and peas
about potentially invoking the Waker jumping law with darlingne Tana.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Look, the party, people in the party will of course
have those conversations because it's a democratic party. But right
now our key message remains the same that Darley needs
to resign and do the right time.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Have you have you had those compsations.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
We have not had a caucus meeting to discuss that.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
If you've spoken to other bell we have.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Not had those conversations. And the reality is we'll need
to actually have caucus meetings following Darlene's decision. She still
has talked about how she's making up her mind about
what she'll do with her future, and we've made it
really clear to her that we think that the best
outcome would be for her to resign.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
One last question, would you personally support putting the Walker
jumping decision to the party membership at the AGM?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
To be honest, I haven't even thought of the off
the AGEM at that point, because my hope is that
by the.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Come on, come on, you gotta have thought of it.
Come on.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
So if the option was we can we can put
this to a vote at the AGM for Green Party members.
Given your commitment to democracy and transparency, would you support
throwing that decision over to Green Party members?

Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think that's a complete misinterpretation of how the bill
actually works because it does not rely on party members.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
No, but if party members voted for you guys to
invoke it, would you support putting that decision to party
members for you as the caucus to then invoke.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
If members want to put a remat at the AGM.
But it's completely up to them. But the reality is,
and as we've said before, and as somebody who works
very closely on migrant exploitian issues. I think the right
thing for Darling to do would be to refign.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Hey, thanks for your time, we really appreciate it. Ricardo
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