Sam Dean: NIWA climate scientist on Air New Zealand ditching their 2030 climate targets

Air New Zealand is ditching its carbon intensity reduction targets and will withdraw from the Science Based Targets initiative. 

It planned to cut carbon intensity 28.9 percent by 2030 - but blamed a lack of fuel-efficient planes and the costs of alternative fuel for this shift in priorities.

NIWA climate scientist Sam Dean says Air New Zealand didn't have a lot of choice in this situation.

"Fundamentally, their business is about flying planes. And as they openly said - they're dependent on a whole lot of things that are out of their control."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's talk about what's up with Air New Zealand. They
are ditching their carbon reduction targets, so they're going to
withdraw from a science based target's initiative that they have
only been in for two years now. They plan to
cut carbon intensity twenty eight point nine percent by twenty thirty.
But now the airline says we're not going to do that.
We're not going to get our new fuel efficient planes

(00:20):
until later, and the affordability of alternative fuels is also
an issue, so it's off the table. So to talk
about this, I'm joined by Sam Dean, who is a
principal scientist for Climate from newha Sam, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good evening, Andrew Margot, it were.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
You surprised at this or was it writing pretty much
on the wall really because of many reasons?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, I mean many reasons. I think reducing emissions in
aviation is one of the biggest challenges. You know, they
don't have many choices. They're fundamentally their business is about
flying planes and as they as they openly said, they're
dependent on a whole lot of things that are out
of their control. With new planes, whether they're available to

(01:02):
buy and access to buy a fuel that are cheap
enough rate that they can actually run their business economically.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
And the fact of the matter is that New Zealanders
still want to fly. New Zealanders still want to get
on a plan, and they want to go to Tuscany,
and they want to go all over the world. And
they have not They have not stopped their travel bug
in any way, shape or form. And Air New Zealand
have responded to to the demand, which is a mandate,
which is kind of like a mandate for Air New
Zealand to go out there and burn.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Air New Zealand's business is about flying people and the
more people that fly, the more money it will make.
They are talking about their intensity, so you know, how
much is you know per person traveling? What what what
that that that efficiency is and how much emissions are
associated with it? But yes, they're if they grow more
people flying New Zealanders. We're a small country at the

(01:55):
you know, trade is important to us, travel is important
to us, into connectivity is important to us. But that
doesn't mean we don't need to reduce emissions, right, So
it's going to if we don't do it in aviation,
you know, we're going to have to do it in
other sector of the economy.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
We have a unique thing quite right, air New Zealand
and New Zealanders have no other options. You know, if
you're in Croatia, you can get somewhere on a train
and it's powered by electricity. But we are on three
islands four if you count the Chathams, right in the
middle of the ocean. The only way where you can
really get out and about and do this stuff isn't

(02:29):
a plane.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I agree it's very difficult for New Zealand, but you
know that's so reducing. It's good that the New Zealand
is being upfront and saying they don't see how they
can meet those targets at the stage they're being honest
and upfront and so flying remains an unfriendly climate activity,

(02:51):
but we're going to have to reduce some missions somehow.
So it just puts pressure on us to reduce them
in other ways. And there are things in transport, you know,
where we have technologies like electroveahles on the shelf that
are you know, only marginally more expensive than petrol vehicles
than things like that, where we can make reduct productions
and emissions.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
True, it would help if we finished off the electrification
of the main railway, of course, which we started and
then stopped and have never finished. But there we go.
But here's the thing, completely air. New Zealand has talked
a lot about wanting to become more sustainable. They hired
a chief Sustainability officer, They've got former Climate Change Minister
James Shaw who's clipping the ticket as an advisor. But

(03:32):
as you said, the entire model is antithetic to ever
achieving that. So you know, there's a there's a bit
of virtue signaling in the whole thing, don't you think,
wells I mean, in the.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Long term, they may well have options to reduce emissions.
I guess they're signaling out to two thousand and thirty.
They don't see themselves achieving the target they previously set.
But this is a this is a big question. I
feel like this is the decade, right, this is the
time where the rubbers hitting the road, where these great
ambition that people have put down on the table reducing
emissions are coming up against the reality of how hard

(04:05):
that's going to be. I mean, New Zealand has made
in a commitment under the Paris Agreement, and we don't
expect to meet that as the reduction of emissions in
New Zealand. So we're the only way to do that
then is to buy offshore and that's going to be
hideously extensive. We don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
As a pression problem here as well as a precedent though.
This is quite awkward really because other companies will look
at what Air New Zealand has done and possibly feel
emboldened by that pullback and says, well, look, any Zealand's
not doing it, why should I?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, I mean that's it's anyw Zealand wants to. I
think Any New Zealand is genuine in its desire and
commitment to reduce its carbon intensity. It's saying it doesn't
have pool available and so caskid you can't do so
economically at the moment in the short next five to
six years. I think we have to keep telling the

(04:58):
story that in other parts of the in an economy,
we do have options to reduce emissions economically and can
do so. And yes, there is a risk, as you highlighted,
that people see this as you know they can't do it.
Why should I work in anyone? It's all hopeless. I
don't think we can look at it that way. I
think there are real opportunities. It's just going to it
just was always the case that aviation was extremely difficult

(05:22):
and it's probably the last problem we're going to be
able to solve because electric planes are not really yet feasible.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Sam, Thank you so much. Thank you for your work.
Sam as the principal scientist for Climate for Climate at NEEWA.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
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