November 26, 2025 • 6 mins
The Government says offshore carbon credits could be bought in the future - but not yet.
Climate Minister Simon Watts says all options are being considered, but they've ruled out shopping overseas this term.
But for New Zealand to meet Paris Agreement targets signed up to in 2016, it may be necessary - and work is under way so it's an option down the line.
Watts says he is focusing on domestic actions.
"The reality is, I actually think - and I'm pretty optimistic - we're looking pretty good in terms of our emissions reduction."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So there's some confusion over whether New Zealand will or
will not be sending twenty four billion dollars or thereabouts
to another country to plant trees in order for us
to be able to meet our climate targets. Nikola will
have set on Monday night. We're not doing it, but
the Climate Minister Simon Watts has said he's getting the
deals ready for us to be able to do it.
So to clear up that confusion, Simon Wats has to
agree to come in and talk to us about it. Hi, Simon, Hey, Heather,
(00:21):
great to be here. So, yeah, thank you for coming in.
So are you going to buy overseas carbon credits or not?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're not going to be doing that this term heither.
I want to be really clear about that. As a government,
we have not made any decisions in regards to doing that,
and the reality is it's not something that's on policy
agenda this term of government.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Of course, it's not on your policy agenda this term
of government, because you don't twenty thirty doesn't happen this
term of government. Is it potentially next term.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
The reality of what we've done is we've set up
options in regards to that, but we're focused on domestic options.
We have to and as Minister, I have to put
in place all of the options that again to give
us options in the future, but we don't necessarily need
to be able to deploy those options.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay, So if you are in government, when we fall
short of our target, which we will, will you buy
overseas country.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I can't commit to that because I can't commit to
where we're going to be in will It's just.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Said to us on Monday. No, we're not sending any
money overseas.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So why you're talking of what are we going to
do in twenty thirty two? Right? And I don't think
it's reasona thirty isn't it twenty thirty But you don't
actually know until where you are at until twenty thirty two,
So that's the timeline. I'm not making commitments around what
any government's time at that point.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
The reason I want to know is because this is
one of the daftest ideas I've ever heard of my life,
where we have a country where we cannot afford to
properly build the need in a hospital, but you're telling
me that it is a potential possibility that we're going
to send maybe as much as twenty four billion dollars
to some Southeast Asian country to plant US trees. That's nutty.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We absolutely think that that is not a realistic policy
position for us as a government. So tell me to
do it. If you're the guy I might not be
the minister of twenty thirty two.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
In twenty thirty two, would you do it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I don't know where we're going to be at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Simon, you're blowing my mind.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
We afford this well.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
We don't know where we will be at that point.
And the reality is is I actually think I'm pretty optimistic.
We're doing and looking pretty good in terms of our
mission's reduction. So the thing this is a hypothetical conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You're going to fall short. It is just not going
to happen that we're going to meet our target. And
here's why it's important to you is because you have
to start sending the money aside four years in advance,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
No, we don't.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's not like that's how that recycle.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Not a liability, and you don't. You're not signing up
to sending money to some specific entity or enment.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
It is a liability, is it.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, it's not a liability, and that's why Treasury don't
have it on our books. It's not a liability be on.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Our books until twenty thirty if we choose to speak
that's correct either.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And that's why you know, as a government, we've been
clear we're not going to be looking at doing anything
like that. We don't think that that is sensible policy,
nor does it make any fiscal sense in the conducts
that we were at you.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And that's why why are you setting up the deals
and the mechanism, Because we have to do as.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
A mechanism, make sure and be clear that we have
and are committed to our targets. So we have to
be able to ad No, we're setting up optionality. But
there is a difference between putting in place options and
using those options. And you know, from a government, we're
saying that's not a policy position that we are going
to be exploring this term, and that means that that's
not on the table.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Then what you're doing is you're wasting your time because
this is not something using you can ever plausibly afford.
So setting up the deals and the mechanisms is playing
pretend to fool the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
No, it's not. These climate agreements and cooperation agreements include
a wide range of initiatives. You know, we've just done
one with Iceland in regards to geotherm or These are
comprehensive agreements. They contain mechanisms and options around facilitating something
like this. But there is a whole lot of other
aspects that are part of those deal.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
But you know what the other problem is is that
should you lose at some stage to Chippy and some
stage in the future, labor will be in and labor
may have some nutty hangers on like the Greens and
the Maldi Party, you are setting up the means for
them to be able to send tens of billions of
New Zealand dollars off to Thailand.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So look, I trust the New Zealand public to be,
you know, seend a clear signal around expectations of what
they think around future government. You know, for what we're doing.
We have no plans, nor policy decisions, nor cabinet decisions
in regards to progress on this.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Is there no alternative version of what's happening right now
where you simply say, I, Simon Watts think this is
such a nutty idea. I'm not going to set up
the deals.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
There isn't a mechanism in order to do that. Countries,
in regards to their commitments around NDC are unanimous in
the way in which they commit to meeting those targets.
And they say and they commit that they intend to
meet them. And the reality is is we've got a
period of time between now and then, and we just
have to do our best efforts in regards for achieving it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Lord above, I'm going to blame you Simon in twenty thirty.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Please don't like that.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I remember Simon Watts. I remember that guy.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
No, well, I hope you remember me for better reasons
than that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Though, to your credit, how good was that rmra form yesterday?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Really really good? And I tell you what heither. If
you think about where we can be in five years
from now, If you think about the r and A reform,
it's game changer. You think about getting rid of regional councils,
it's game change here. And by the way, rates capping
is coming. And I'll give you a bit more of
an update very soon.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Is that in the next week or.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Going to be before Christmas? So well, too long to work.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's four weeks, isn't it okay?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Now?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Simon? So you kind of called my bluff because I
didn't think that you would be in today. I was
kind of like I was psyching myself up for next week.
But then you got into your car and what happened?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Well, I got into my car and the driver who
will remain nameless, said she was listening to you last
night and said you were not happy. And I thought, well,
I'm driving past your studio. What the hell I'm going
to come and knock on? Ill went to reception. I said,
it's Heather here and here you are. Here, we are,
we're on the mic. I'll tell you what. That is
(05:52):
a dedicated minister, and you know it's good to be
here to clear this issue up.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
That Simon, you are a dedicated in the stand. I
really appreciate you coming in to talk to me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Mate.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Thank you very much. Look after yourself, Simon, what's the
climate change Minister? For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
So there's some confusion over whether New Zealand will or
will not be sending twenty four billion dollars or thereabouts
to another country to plant trees in order for us
to be able to meet our climate targets. Nikola will
have set on Monday night. We're not doing it, but
the Climate Minister Simon Watts has said he's getting the
deals ready for us to be able to do it.
So to clear up that confusion, Simon Wats has to
agree to come in and talk to us about it. Hi, Simon, Hey, Heather,
(00:21):
great to be here. So, yeah, thank you for coming in.
So are you going to buy overseas carbon credits or not?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're not going to be doing that this term heither.
I want to be really clear about that. As a government,
we have not made any decisions in regards to doing that,
and the reality is it's not something that's on policy
agenda this term of government.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Of course, it's not on your policy agenda this term
of government, because you don't twenty thirty doesn't happen this
term of government. Is it potentially next term.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
The reality of what we've done is we've set up
options in regards to that, but we're focused on domestic options.
We have to and as Minister, I have to put
in place all of the options that again to give
us options in the future, but we don't necessarily need
to be able to deploy those options.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay, So if you are in government, when we fall
short of our target, which we will, will you buy
overseas country.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I can't commit to that because I can't commit to
where we're going to be in will It's just.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Said to us on Monday. No, we're not sending any
money overseas.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So why you're talking of what are we going to
do in twenty thirty two? Right? And I don't think
it's reasona thirty isn't it twenty thirty But you don't
actually know until where you are at until twenty thirty two,
So that's the timeline. I'm not making commitments around what
any government's time at that point.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
The reason I want to know is because this is
one of the daftest ideas I've ever heard of my life,
where we have a country where we cannot afford to
properly build the need in a hospital, but you're telling
me that it is a potential possibility that we're going
to send maybe as much as twenty four billion dollars
to some Southeast Asian country to plant US trees. That's nutty.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We absolutely think that that is not a realistic policy
position for us as a government. So tell me to
do it. If you're the guy I might not be
the minister of twenty thirty two.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
In twenty thirty two, would you do it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I don't know where we're going to be at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Simon, you're blowing my mind.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
We afford this well.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
We don't know where we will be at that point.
And the reality is is I actually think I'm pretty optimistic.
We're doing and looking pretty good in terms of our
mission's reduction. So the thing this is a hypothetical conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You're going to fall short. It is just not going
to happen that we're going to meet our target. And
here's why it's important to you is because you have
to start sending the money aside four years in advance,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
No, we don't.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's not like that's how that recycle.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Not a liability, and you don't. You're not signing up
to sending money to some specific entity or enment.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
It is a liability, is it.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, it's not a liability, and that's why Treasury don't
have it on our books. It's not a liability be on.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Our books until twenty thirty if we choose to speak
that's correct either.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And that's why you know, as a government, we've been
clear we're not going to be looking at doing anything
like that. We don't think that that is sensible policy,
nor does it make any fiscal sense in the conducts
that we were at you.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And that's why why are you setting up the deals
and the mechanism, Because we have to do as.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
A mechanism, make sure and be clear that we have
and are committed to our targets. So we have to
be able to ad No, we're setting up optionality. But
there is a difference between putting in place options and
using those options. And you know, from a government, we're
saying that's not a policy position that we are going
to be exploring this term, and that means that that's
not on the table.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Then what you're doing is you're wasting your time because
this is not something using you can ever plausibly afford.
So setting up the deals and the mechanisms is playing
pretend to fool the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
No, it's not. These climate agreements and cooperation agreements include
a wide range of initiatives. You know, we've just done
one with Iceland in regards to geotherm or These are
comprehensive agreements. They contain mechanisms and options around facilitating something
like this. But there is a whole lot of other
aspects that are part of those deal.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
But you know what the other problem is is that
should you lose at some stage to Chippy and some
stage in the future, labor will be in and labor
may have some nutty hangers on like the Greens and
the Maldi Party, you are setting up the means for
them to be able to send tens of billions of
New Zealand dollars off to Thailand.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So look, I trust the New Zealand public to be,
you know, seend a clear signal around expectations of what
they think around future government. You know, for what we're doing.
We have no plans, nor policy decisions, nor cabinet decisions
in regards to progress on this.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Is there no alternative version of what's happening right now
where you simply say, I, Simon Watts think this is
such a nutty idea. I'm not going to set up
the deals.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
There isn't a mechanism in order to do that. Countries,
in regards to their commitments around NDC are unanimous in
the way in which they commit to meeting those targets.
And they say and they commit that they intend to
meet them. And the reality is is we've got a
period of time between now and then, and we just
have to do our best efforts in regards for achieving it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Lord above, I'm going to blame you Simon in twenty thirty.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Please don't like that.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I remember Simon Watts. I remember that guy.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
No, well, I hope you remember me for better reasons
than that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Though, to your credit, how good was that rmra form yesterday?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Really really good? And I tell you what heither. If
you think about where we can be in five years
from now, If you think about the r and A reform,
it's game changer. You think about getting rid of regional councils,
it's game change here. And by the way, rates capping
is coming. And I'll give you a bit more of
an update very soon.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Is that in the next week or.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Going to be before Christmas? So well, too long to work.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's four weeks, isn't it okay?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Now?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Simon? So you kind of called my bluff because I
didn't think that you would be in today. I was
kind of like I was psyching myself up for next week.
But then you got into your car and what happened?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Well, I got into my car and the driver who
will remain nameless, said she was listening to you last
night and said you were not happy. And I thought, well,
I'm driving past your studio. What the hell I'm going
to come and knock on? Ill went to reception. I said,
it's Heather here and here you are. Here, we are,
we're on the mic. I'll tell you what. That is
(05:52):
a dedicated minister, and you know it's good to be
here to clear this issue up.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
That Simon, you are a dedicated in the stand. I
really appreciate you coming in to talk to me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Mate.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Thank you very much. Look after yourself, Simon, what's the
climate change Minister? For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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