Sir Brian Roche: Public Service Commissioner on the New Zealand Initiative calling for Govt departments to be culled

The Public Service Commissioner says he doesn't want to see the public service slashed and burnt. 

Earlier this week, the New Zealand Initiative called for a culling of our 43 Government departments to just 20. 

Sir Brian Roche says everything's on the table - but the changes need to be measured. 

"The Initiative is one world view, I think these things have to evolve. I don't look at this being a big bang, we don't want to go through big slash/burn downsizings, those things are debilitating and I don't see those being required at this point."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, as you know, it's been a lot of chat
lately about shaking up the public service. It's been reported
there are plans to merge the Ministry for Women, Pacific
Peoples and Disabled People into other ministries and also this
week the New Zealand Initiative recommended cutting the number of
departments by half. Now, Sir Brian Roach is the Public
Service Commissioner.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi, Brian Goody, how are you well?

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Thank you? So tell us are you getting rid of
the Ministry for Women and the Pacific People's Ministry and
the Ministry for Disabled People?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
No, that is not part of the plan. What the
plan is designed to do is actually amalgamate existing agencies
to give them scale and give them resilience so they
have greater impact in the system. There is a view
which I share that there are some agencies which are
below critical mass, it's no fold of their own and
we need to actually strengthen them and that's what we're

(00:49):
going to do. But their brands will continue.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Right, So these three are you going to put them together?
You're merging them.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
It is one of a number of proposals which we're
still looking through. So like I'm not making any public
announcements about who's in and who's out. But I was
asked to look at better ways of running the public
sector to get greater efficiency, greater sense of purpose and
better customer citizen outcomes. And that's what I've been doing.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
If you merge them, do you merge the people's, the
population ministries together or do you merge them into something bigger.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
The first thing is to merge them, is to consolidate
to catch the scale that's required to be resilient. So
you know where they all end up. And you know,
I know this is incredibly unsettling for people, but it's
unsettling to be doing what they're currently doing with ongoing
budget cuts. They are reality of our life and we
have to find a new way of conducting our business.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
And so are you just looking at these three that
have gone public or are you actually open to something
as big as the New Zealand Initiative has suggested.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
All options remain on the table. I mean, the initiative
is one world view. I think these things have to evolve.
I don't look at this being a big bang in
my own personal view, and these ultimately, these are decisions
of ministers. I think we need to make some decisions
about where we want to be in five years time
and actually orientate the system towards that we don't want

(02:18):
to go through big slash burn downsizing. Those things are
debilitating and I don't see those as being required at
this point.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Do you not think that, if you're doing this right,
if you are taking a big old look at it,
and you're considering all options, should we not also add
in the possibility that some of these ministries are no
longer required and we should scrap some of them. I
would argue the Ministry for Women.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, that's an argument that ministers will have. I'm playing
with the cards that I've got. Those ministries are seen
as critical. Their voice and the policy debate, and their
voice to ensure that agencies are recognizing those constituencies remain
part of my claim cards.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Have you managed to get everybody back to work, back
into the office.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
I haven't. I haven't, unfortunately, But you know, we've talked
about this previously. Having people working from home makes sense
in some circumstances, but overwhelmingly fifty percent of public servants
don't get that option. So, based on my personal experience,
I think we have a very high number of people
in the office.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
And so what's the roadblock. Why haven't you been able
to get them back in.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Because there are legitimate reasons for people to be working
from home. And you know, the whole policy that's some
objected to was you don't have it as of rights.
You do it with the authority of your Like, what you're.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Saying is you're comfortable with the situation as it is.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
I am comfortable with it, but I think you know,
if you look globally, a number of businesses have said
you've got to be in the office every day. We
are not of that mind. We don't think that's a
point we need to get to.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Brian Listen, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much, Sir
Brian Wroach, Public Service Commissioner. For more from Heather Duplessy
Allen Drive, listen live to News Talks at b from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.