December 20, 2024 • 7 mins
Sir Roger Douglas is disappointed with the ACT Party's response to this week's bleak Treasury forecasts.
Douglas supported NZ First MP Shane Jones' response to the figures in which he made in an urgent debate in Parliament.
David Seymour has 'annoyed' his party's founder.
ACT Party Founder Sir Roger Douglas discusses this with Ryan Bridge.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The ACT Party founder said Roger Douglas has thrown shade
at his own He's disappointed in the ACT Party's response
to the Weeek's bleak treasury forecast, saying he does ACT
doesn't have the right solutions for New Zealand's fiscal challenges.
This is the party that he founded. Instead, He's taken
a liking, taking a shining to Shane Jones's speech to
(00:20):
Parliament in response to the Hayfu numbers, where he looks
to industries which said growth as a solution.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Look no further than the massive group an export income
coming from the primary sector announced last week fisheries, AH, horticulture, up,
farming up, forestry increasing.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Now we ask David Seymour, the leader of the ACT Party,
if he wanted to come on to have a chat
with Sir Roger Douglas, but he declined a panel discussion.
So I'm joined by the ACT founder, Sir Roger Douglas.
He's with me this evening. Good evening, good evening, Thank
you for being here. Why are you disappointed with ACT?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, look, I formed a thirty years go and let
me quote a short extract from our founding document, The
question of money is particularly important at the moment. In
the immediate future, we are threatened to the largest debt
(01:17):
in our history, a debt that hasn't raased the public's
consciousness in any serious way. It is a debt that
the state owes all of us it's citizens for our
retirement pensions and our healthcare in retirement. Essentially, the deal
is this, we paying taxes. We pay taxes into the
(01:41):
system to fulfill our haalf of the social contract, and
between us and them, between us and the government, we
pay taxes. And when we are sick, the contract is
that the government will see look after it. When we
are old, the state will provide We who pay the
(02:02):
taxes have kept our part of the bargain. But when
we are old, does the state do its part? And
they are going about the waiting list and say, when
it comes to our retirement we are going to get
Are we going to get the care? The support that
(02:24):
our parents knew in their post war years? And that
basically we said, in other words, back thirty years ago,
when this document Common Censury Change was published, we predicted
that unless we took action to start individual savings account,
(02:50):
if we stayed with the pay as you go we
were going to go broke, and anyone who did simple
numbers three years, thirty years ago would have come, you know,
to the same conclusion. You could have got a smart
ten year old and they would But the government didn't
want to do that. No government, Well well here I
(03:12):
wanted to keep power.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, But well as every government does, apart from one
that Roger Douglas is in. Because you're the only one
radical enough to say these things, aren't you? But why
pick on act at the moment, you know, why write
this about Well, I'm obviously.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Disappointed that the party I founded stopped following those policies.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And David Seymour says it's easier from afar sitting back
looking on harder when you're actually in there in government.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Oh well, that's true. But if you think about what
we did in nineteen eighty four, we had a cabinet
who said we are going to do the right thing
by New Zealand, We're going to do the right thing
even if we lose the next electure.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And you think that that's what we did, You think
that lot doesn't have the bulls, that don't have the
bulls to do that.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And that's what I'm saying I don't believe they they have.
And when I listened to that debate and listen to
the commentary, you know, I was so disappointed.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So how hard would you have to hacken too, spending
to you know, to actually make it?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well. I published the answers to this back there thirty
years ago. We published a paper ten years ago with
Robert McCulloch. We published a paper, detailed paper with all
the numbers you've got. What about answer now?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, I mean, how much would you need to cut?
Twenty five thirty.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
That's what Treasury do, but I don't believe we have
to do that. My answer is this, essentially we make
the and this is why I get annoyed with that,
because David says these ideas are rubbish anyway, but it'll
(05:16):
take a lot of time. I would have attacked the
first fifty three thousand, five hundred tax free. Of the saving,
nine thousand and six thousand would go into SUMER, so
that if you're an eighteen year old, you'd retire with
at least a million dollars in today's terms about four
(05:39):
million dollars in dollars of the day, So.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Basically compulsory, compulsory savings and no and no state super
because that was well you take would take that off
the books because it's going to customs.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
It would it would take it all off and you
would save about three hundred billion and forty forty years tied.
And it does cost your rye. And let me tell
you what sacrifices you and everyone else have to pass
(06:14):
to make the key we save a tax break, I
get rid of that. That's a thousand people are saving
six seven They don't need that. I'd use the two
super fund income, which is about five thousand million.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
We can't go, Sir Roger. Sir Roger, I I can't
go through your whole list. I can't get to your
whole list tonight. But even though I know it's a
good one, but I just just one final word from
you on on David Seymour. You know you've given them
a bit of a serve, but at the end of
the day, you're still going to vote Act, don't you.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, what's my option? They keep my vote because they're
better than the the other doesn't make them perfect.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Sir Roger Douglas, thank you very much for your time.
For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
The ACT Party founder said Roger Douglas has thrown shade
at his own He's disappointed in the ACT Party's response
to the Weeek's bleak treasury forecast, saying he does ACT
doesn't have the right solutions for New Zealand's fiscal challenges.
This is the party that he founded. Instead, He's taken
a liking, taking a shining to Shane Jones's speech to
(00:20):
Parliament in response to the Hayfu numbers, where he looks
to industries which said growth as a solution.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Look no further than the massive group an export income
coming from the primary sector announced last week fisheries, AH, horticulture, up,
farming up, forestry increasing.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Now we ask David Seymour, the leader of the ACT Party,
if he wanted to come on to have a chat
with Sir Roger Douglas, but he declined a panel discussion.
So I'm joined by the ACT founder, Sir Roger Douglas.
He's with me this evening. Good evening, good evening, Thank
you for being here. Why are you disappointed with ACT?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, look, I formed a thirty years go and let
me quote a short extract from our founding document, The
question of money is particularly important at the moment. In
the immediate future, we are threatened to the largest debt
(01:17):
in our history, a debt that hasn't raased the public's
consciousness in any serious way. It is a debt that
the state owes all of us it's citizens for our
retirement pensions and our healthcare in retirement. Essentially, the deal
is this, we paying taxes. We pay taxes into the
(01:41):
system to fulfill our haalf of the social contract, and
between us and them, between us and the government, we
pay taxes. And when we are sick, the contract is
that the government will see look after it. When we
are old, the state will provide We who pay the
(02:02):
taxes have kept our part of the bargain. But when
we are old, does the state do its part? And
they are going about the waiting list and say, when
it comes to our retirement we are going to get
Are we going to get the care? The support that
(02:24):
our parents knew in their post war years? And that
basically we said, in other words, back thirty years ago,
when this document Common Censury Change was published, we predicted
that unless we took action to start individual savings account,
(02:50):
if we stayed with the pay as you go we
were going to go broke, and anyone who did simple
numbers three years, thirty years ago would have come, you know,
to the same conclusion. You could have got a smart
ten year old and they would But the government didn't
want to do that. No government, Well well here I
(03:12):
wanted to keep power.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, But well as every government does, apart from one
that Roger Douglas is in. Because you're the only one
radical enough to say these things, aren't you? But why
pick on act at the moment, you know, why write
this about Well, I'm obviously.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Disappointed that the party I founded stopped following those policies.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And David Seymour says it's easier from afar sitting back
looking on harder when you're actually in there in government.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Oh well, that's true. But if you think about what
we did in nineteen eighty four, we had a cabinet
who said we are going to do the right thing
by New Zealand, We're going to do the right thing
even if we lose the next electure.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And you think that that's what we did, You think
that lot doesn't have the bulls, that don't have the
bulls to do that.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And that's what I'm saying I don't believe they they have.
And when I listened to that debate and listen to
the commentary, you know, I was so disappointed.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So how hard would you have to hacken too, spending
to you know, to actually make it?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well. I published the answers to this back there thirty
years ago. We published a paper ten years ago with
Robert McCulloch. We published a paper, detailed paper with all
the numbers you've got. What about answer now?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, I mean, how much would you need to cut?
Twenty five thirty.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
That's what Treasury do, but I don't believe we have
to do that. My answer is this, essentially we make
the and this is why I get annoyed with that,
because David says these ideas are rubbish anyway, but it'll
(05:16):
take a lot of time. I would have attacked the
first fifty three thousand, five hundred tax free. Of the saving,
nine thousand and six thousand would go into SUMER, so
that if you're an eighteen year old, you'd retire with
at least a million dollars in today's terms about four
(05:39):
million dollars in dollars of the day, So.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Basically compulsory, compulsory savings and no and no state super
because that was well you take would take that off
the books because it's going to customs.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
It would it would take it all off and you
would save about three hundred billion and forty forty years tied.
And it does cost your rye. And let me tell
you what sacrifices you and everyone else have to pass
(06:14):
to make the key we save a tax break, I
get rid of that. That's a thousand people are saving
six seven They don't need that. I'd use the two
super fund income, which is about five thousand million.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
We can't go, Sir Roger. Sir Roger, I I can't
go through your whole list. I can't get to your
whole list tonight. But even though I know it's a
good one, but I just just one final word from
you on on David Seymour. You know you've given them
a bit of a serve, but at the end of
the day, you're still going to vote Act, don't you.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, what's my option? They keep my vote because they're
better than the the other doesn't make them perfect.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Sir Roger Douglas, thank you very much for your time.
For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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