Tamatha Paul: Green MP on Oranga Tamariki refusing to release details around bootcamp reoffending

The pressure's on Oranga Tamariki - as it announces it won't release more details around bootcamp reoffending.

The Ministry for Children initially confirmed teens in the pilot military-style academy programme had offended again.

It's since said releasing information could've been harmful to those involved.

Green MP Tamatha Paul says the agency is shifting the goalposts.

"That is one of the measures of success for the pilot, so I think it's really important that we do know."

Paul claims Oranga Tamariki doesn't want to publish the data because the programme's been a failure.

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now ordering a tamodiki here in New Zealand gearing up
for another round of the boot camps for youth offenders
next year, but might be difficult for us to tell
how well they're actually working. They say they'll not publish
details of how many participants are reoffending after they complete
the program. There have been allegations that at the last

(00:20):
three of the young people, the last three of the
young people who've already gone to boot camp, committed serious
crimes since the program began. So how we know the
measure of success is the question. Tamotha Paul is the
Green Party spokesperson for youth and joins me tonight. Hi,
Tamatha Chotter Ryan, how's it going?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good, thank you. So do you think they should the
boot camps are happening, right, but should we know whether
the kids are reoffending?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, that is one of the measures of success for
the pilot, So I think it's really important that we
do know. But at the same time, the pilot's a
little bit useless because they've already started getting the legislation through,
so it's not actually going to inform what ends up
being the boot camps.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Why do you think that they're boarding at Tamadiki wants
to not publicize the data because.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
The pilot has been in utter failure and they know it.
And when in the beginning, their measures of success were
the rates of reoffending. And now that they've realized that
chucking half a million dollars at each child and putting
them into the boot camp and expecting them that to
work and not working is not good enough, And so
they've shifted the goalpost now and say, oh no, no, we're

(01:28):
not focusing on that. We've actually made it now that
it's a success depending on how much time they spend
in community before they reoffend. I don't think that's what
any people that voted for this government expected around the
boot camps.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
No, so you agree reoffending's bad, offending's.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Bad, Well, it's basically the fact that if this pilot
and these boot camps are about helping young people to
stop offending and turn their lives around, then this completely fails.
And it's because they ignored the evidence and they ignored
the history in this country of failed boot camp experiments
from the seventies to the last national government.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Because offending is bad and reoffending is bad. Do you
agree with that?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, if that is the measure of success for the
boot camp and they have not met.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
That, yeah, But can I just get absolutely you agree
that young people offending or reoffending is a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah. I want young people to have the best lives
that they can and not have to resort to committing crime,
which means giving them good education, good housing, and good
access to opportunities in their lives, good jobs, trades, all
of those things.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, So what do you think led to the spike
because it went up twenty three percent under the last government.
What led to the spike in serious persistent young offending.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
There are some pretty clear links between the lockdowns and
youth offending that have been made and I believe Jenny
Anderson as the Minister of Police made this connection and
at the time as well, because and this relates to
the boot camps. When you take young people out of
their communities, take away their access to their schooling, their churches,

(03:10):
their sports teams, their community groups and all you know,
other elements of their lives, and when you put them
into situations where they're stuck in families where they might
be violence or abuse or whatever going on. Then that
will lead to offending, So that actually kind of matches
the rationale that we've been saying in opposition.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
To camps, isn't it good to get them out of
the home then into a camp so they're around.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
That Countries that do better in terms of reducing youth
re offending have far less secure beds in their countries
than we do here. We have a really high rate
basically of youth justice residences and beds, and it's pretty
well founded across research and practice that when you take

(03:57):
young people out of their communities and put them in
to these residences, it's far less effective than keeping them
in their communities and providing them with the services that
they need. And honestly, it's quite simple. It's just like
job opportunities, education opportunities, mental health care, all of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Tamith, I appreciate you coming on the program tonight, Tamoth
Paul Green, spokesperson for Youth. For more from Heather Duplessy
Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd be from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.