October 9, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Phil O'Reilly from Iron Duke Partners and former head of Health NZ, Rob Campbell, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Nestle has quit a major alliance to reduce methane emissions from dairy suppliers. Does this mean New Zealand needs to rethink its approach to climate change, like ACT suggested?
The Māori Party announced their big reset ahead of the 2026 election - hours after Speaker Gerry Brownlee had to suspend the House again after a haka broke out. What do we make of all this?
Are we surprised to learn that Hamas and Israel agreed on the first phase of a peace deal in Gaza? Do we need to give Donald Trump some credit?
There's growing drugs to decriminalise drugs in New Zealand - do we think this is a good idea?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of a kind on the huddle with us this
evening we have Fellow Riley of Iron Duke Partners and
Rob Campbell, aut Chancellor, former Boss of Health New Zealand
hie lads. Hard to argue with Jacqueline, isn't it Phil?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I didn't he made I was so solent. Maybe let
Rob start?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Okay, hard to argue with Jacqueline, isn't it Rob?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm sure I could pick an argument with Jacqueline, but
I don't really need to about this. The main thing
is to focus on what we are doing and what
we need to go on doing. I think this whole
business about pulling out and not pulling out of trade
agreements for US is the Paris Agreement et cetera for
US is a bit of a sideline. If we keep
focusing on what we're doing, there's no need for us
to pull out or not pull out. Eventually this will
(00:46):
work its way through. We've got to keep on doing
what we need to do. That's the issue, and that's
what you acts jumping up and down about this, And
I see quite incredibly that chat Cameron who was speaking
for them, described our policies is being unrelated to the science. Well,
if there's anything less related to the science than what
Cameron comes out, well I've never heard it. So what
(01:08):
we have to do is keep on with the keep
on with what we're doing, improving our practices, lifting our
game all the time, and then we will be listening
to in the world circles if we need to talk
to them.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, okay, well again let's talk about phil I'm quite
ten to talk about what's going on with the Maori Party.
It looks to me very much like this reset is
basically aimed at a big behavior switch and them being
taken sort of toning down their behavior and being taken
seriously enough to be part of a future cabinet with
the Labor Party and the Greens.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What do you think and then they do a hacker
in the parliament it yeah, I mean, you know, it's
kind of weird. So I'm not sure that by just
calming down a bit they'll be seen as any more
or many more part of a cabinet by the non
Mari Party voter than before. Actually, I think they really
do need to come out with some policy that's more
than just grievance, and more than just protest and actually
(01:57):
sit down and sadly we actually make you deal the better.
And I just I just see them doing that. Frankly,
the politics and sidemark the Maro partic clearly is intense.
They seem unwilling or in capable of complying with some
basic rules or even if they want to change them,
having a proper conversation about changing them. So I think
they're quite a long way away from being seen as
(02:18):
a force in any future government Frankly, and by agree
of those who say Crucipkens should think about ruling them out,
as she's probably doing.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Good, Rob, I don't think that to party mar is
all that concerned about what we three are likely to
decide tonight. Is a good thing for them to do.
I mean they're appealing to a mari electric quite specifically,
they're just a new MP into parliament pretty decisively against
the Labor Party. I think that the issue is not
(02:46):
so much whether they take themselves seriously, but it's whether
we take them seriously, and in fact we have to.
They're a significant element in our political equation and if
some people don't like them, well that's just hard luck.
They're significant.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I think you're failing to understand something. It's not hard luck,
it's you're not in cabinet.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, we'll see whether that proves to be the case
or not. I've always found politicians be pretty flexible when
it comes to the number crunching to get them in department.
I'll wait and see about that. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I mean, it will be a key issue in the
electric in election though, with the actually going to say,
look at those guys. You can't you can't elect Chippy
because those guys are going to be in the government.
So you know, it is quite an important piece practically,
because it's not the not the people to vote for
them that'll be the problem, and it'll be the people
that might otherwise vote for for labor or good for Greens.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I think, yeah, and I wait and see, let's wait
and see.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, I don't think we need to wait and see, Phil.
I think we've already seen it today, haven't we. You
can make all the decisions you like. If you can't
get your own MPCE to toe the line, there's no chance,
is that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, it's just it's just an unnecessary own goal in
terms of their well, I understand what they's trying to
do it. In fact, I won't argue by the way
can change the standing order so they can be a
hardward in the Parliament. Good for the end, you know, great,
but you can't do it until you change the standing orders.
And I think you need to lean into that process
with everybody else to say, look, let's come up with
some proper arrangements here other than simply poking the borax
and poking your thing out. It literally that what's going on.
(04:13):
I just don't think can look sensible to anybody other
than them and their relatively small group of supporters that
you're not even all of. Marridam is a supporter of
the Murray Party, so you know, it's quite a nish thing,
a powerful I know, and the Murray seats of course,
but it just need to look a bit more like
everybody else could could understand them and trying to work
with them. I think that's the nature of democracy.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the Global
Leader and Luxury real Estate. Right, you're back with a huddle,
Rob Campbell and Fuller Riley. Rob, how optimistic are you
about peace in Gaza.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I'm very unoptimistic about peace in Gaza. I'm really pleased
that some of the bombing and killing will stop. I'm
really pleased that hostages and prisoners interesting distinction, hostages and
prisoners going to be released. That's a good thing. But
there's a long way to go before there is peace
in Palestine. I'm afraid to say, but look, you'd be
(05:09):
a bad person if you when happy about people stopping
people getting killed.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Rob Where are you worried it falls apart?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
At what point? I think? I'm no expert in this,
but it seems to me that when it becomes to
the question of power and the alignment of power and
who's going to make decisions across the whole of Palestine,
that it will start to fall apart. So I think
those negotiations have really let to really yet to happen.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
What do you think, phil Well?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I makes you a little more positive than Robert? I
think to get overall peace in Palestine is a very
hard ask. But this is a this is a massive
step forward. This is an organization who's very nature Hamas
is to destroy the Jewish people and destroy Israel. And
you know, luckily now they've done what they what they
should have done. You know years ago, you made many
(06:01):
many months ago in terms of the hostages, and so
you know that, and you know obviously some some backing
down bo Israel as well, and so you know the
way in which Trump has managed to achieve this. I mean, youick,
you criticist trumple You're like I've always found with political leaders,
they don't do everything wrong, and they don't do everything right.
And Trump does an awful lot wrong. I think we
can all agree with that. But on this one, I
think he's got it right. And I'm a little more
(06:23):
hopeful than Robin in the sense that this kind of
technocratic group that he's going to chair, which is going
to look to look after Palestine in the meantime, I
think there's some there's some something to that. It's what
happened after the Second World War in the likes of Berlin,
and it kind of worked, So I think there's something
to that. I think we should we should just suspend
judgment for a minute or two and see how it
plays out. To Rob's point, the chances of were being
(06:44):
completely successful pretty more. But look, it's better than I've
seen in the last ten years. So good for them.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, we'll give it a chance. Now, Rob, I'm terrified
of asking you this question because I feel like I
know what the answer is going to be. Do you
think we should decriminalize drugs in New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You might pusher? Are you going to come out unveil
yourself as my pusher?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Are you if I'm pushing you drugs, I'm probably only
pushing your drugs for your heart or something like that.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Look, I think that we have to address the drug
issue as primarily a health issue, and by that I
mean a social health as well as a physical health issue.
To the extent that decriminalization can help that, I support it.
And for example, I think some things have been effectively
decriminalized anyway, like cannabis I think is something that we
(07:37):
could readily move on some of the more serious drugs.
I think we would want to proceed reasonably carefully, but
the direction should be towards not criminalizing people for using,
but criminalized people for making and trading even the dangerous drugs.
So there's got to be a way through that second,
in my view, to get to the real issues.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Phil I agree with Robin this issue. Iways been a
bit of a fan for dick rimalization, which is a
different thing to legalization, right, it's a different thing. And
I think that the challenge is when you say that,
what do you mean, who are you decriminalizing? And you
can't decriminalize the mung the or pushing the stuff, can you?
So how do you actually draw that line in the
(08:16):
sand and how do you get away.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
From standindmendalities don't use the personal.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Use yeah, in theory, although you know, you can see
how you can start to bend some lines there. But
I agree with Robin this clearly the current situation is
not working effectively. If I suspect this has never happened
to because I don't do drugs, but apparently, but you know,
if I suspect, if you we've found with some drugs
by the police, they probablyouldn't do too much. I suspect
they're just you know, leave your unless you're doing something
(08:40):
other bad. So you know, we need to just get
that real. And I certainly agree with Lob that and
other advocates too. We need to treat this as a
health issue, and that's the best way to out it,
to get people actually declaring it. To say I need
help and that will actually help clean it up. But
see that it's a hard road.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
That's a hard road, really is guys. It's great to
chat to the pair of you. Thank you so much,
Rob Campbell, Fellow Riley.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Now huddle for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of a kind on the huddle with us this
evening we have Fellow Riley of Iron Duke Partners and
Rob Campbell, aut Chancellor, former Boss of Health New Zealand
hie lads. Hard to argue with Jacqueline, isn't it Phil?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I didn't he made I was so solent. Maybe let
Rob start?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Okay, hard to argue with Jacqueline, isn't it Rob?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm sure I could pick an argument with Jacqueline, but
I don't really need to about this. The main thing
is to focus on what we are doing and what
we need to go on doing. I think this whole
business about pulling out and not pulling out of trade
agreements for US is the Paris Agreement et cetera for
US is a bit of a sideline. If we keep
focusing on what we're doing, there's no need for us
to pull out or not pull out. Eventually this will
(00:46):
work its way through. We've got to keep on doing
what we need to do. That's the issue, and that's
what you acts jumping up and down about this, And
I see quite incredibly that chat Cameron who was speaking
for them, described our policies is being unrelated to the science. Well,
if there's anything less related to the science than what
Cameron comes out, well I've never heard it. So what
(01:08):
we have to do is keep on with the keep
on with what we're doing, improving our practices, lifting our
game all the time, and then we will be listening
to in the world circles if we need to talk
to them.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, okay, well again let's talk about phil I'm quite
ten to talk about what's going on with the Maori Party.
It looks to me very much like this reset is
basically aimed at a big behavior switch and them being
taken sort of toning down their behavior and being taken
seriously enough to be part of a future cabinet with
the Labor Party and the Greens.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What do you think and then they do a hacker
in the parliament it yeah, I mean, you know, it's
kind of weird. So I'm not sure that by just
calming down a bit they'll be seen as any more
or many more part of a cabinet by the non
Mari Party voter than before. Actually, I think they really
do need to come out with some policy that's more
than just grievance, and more than just protest and actually
(01:57):
sit down and sadly we actually make you deal the better.
And I just I just see them doing that. Frankly,
the politics and sidemark the Maro partic clearly is intense.
They seem unwilling or in capable of complying with some
basic rules or even if they want to change them,
having a proper conversation about changing them. So I think
they're quite a long way away from being seen as
(02:18):
a force in any future government Frankly, and by agree
of those who say Crucipkens should think about ruling them out,
as she's probably doing.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Good, Rob, I don't think that to party mar is
all that concerned about what we three are likely to
decide tonight. Is a good thing for them to do.
I mean they're appealing to a mari electric quite specifically,
they're just a new MP into parliament pretty decisively against
the Labor Party. I think that the issue is not
(02:46):
so much whether they take themselves seriously, but it's whether
we take them seriously, and in fact we have to.
They're a significant element in our political equation and if
some people don't like them, well that's just hard luck.
They're significant.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I think you're failing to understand something. It's not hard luck,
it's you're not in cabinet.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, we'll see whether that proves to be the case
or not. I've always found politicians be pretty flexible when
it comes to the number crunching to get them in department.
I'll wait and see about that. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I mean, it will be a key issue in the
electric in election though, with the actually going to say,
look at those guys. You can't you can't elect Chippy
because those guys are going to be in the government.
So you know, it is quite an important piece practically,
because it's not the not the people to vote for
them that'll be the problem, and it'll be the people
that might otherwise vote for for labor or good for Greens.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I think, yeah, and I wait and see, let's wait
and see.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, I don't think we need to wait and see, Phil.
I think we've already seen it today, haven't we. You
can make all the decisions you like. If you can't
get your own MPCE to toe the line, there's no chance,
is that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, it's just it's just an unnecessary own goal in
terms of their well, I understand what they's trying to
do it. In fact, I won't argue by the way
can change the standing order so they can be a
hardward in the Parliament. Good for the end, you know, great,
but you can't do it until you change the standing orders.
And I think you need to lean into that process
with everybody else to say, look, let's come up with
some proper arrangements here other than simply poking the borax
and poking your thing out. It literally that what's going on.
(04:13):
I just don't think can look sensible to anybody other
than them and their relatively small group of supporters that
you're not even all of. Marridam is a supporter of
the Murray Party, so you know, it's quite a nish thing,
a powerful I know, and the Murray seats of course,
but it just need to look a bit more like
everybody else could could understand them and trying to work
with them. I think that's the nature of democracy.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the Global
Leader and Luxury real Estate. Right, you're back with a huddle,
Rob Campbell and Fuller Riley. Rob, how optimistic are you
about peace in Gaza.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I'm very unoptimistic about peace in Gaza. I'm really pleased
that some of the bombing and killing will stop. I'm
really pleased that hostages and prisoners interesting distinction, hostages and
prisoners going to be released. That's a good thing. But
there's a long way to go before there is peace
in Palestine. I'm afraid to say, but look, you'd be
(05:09):
a bad person if you when happy about people stopping
people getting killed.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Rob Where are you worried it falls apart?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
At what point? I think? I'm no expert in this,
but it seems to me that when it becomes to
the question of power and the alignment of power and
who's going to make decisions across the whole of Palestine,
that it will start to fall apart. So I think
those negotiations have really let to really yet to happen.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
What do you think, phil Well?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I makes you a little more positive than Robert? I
think to get overall peace in Palestine is a very
hard ask. But this is a this is a massive
step forward. This is an organization who's very nature Hamas
is to destroy the Jewish people and destroy Israel. And
you know, luckily now they've done what they what they
should have done. You know years ago, you made many
(06:01):
many months ago in terms of the hostages, and so
you know that, and you know obviously some some backing
down bo Israel as well, and so you know the
way in which Trump has managed to achieve this. I mean, youick,
you criticist trumple You're like I've always found with political leaders,
they don't do everything wrong, and they don't do everything right.
And Trump does an awful lot wrong. I think we
can all agree with that. But on this one, I
think he's got it right. And I'm a little more
(06:23):
hopeful than Robin in the sense that this kind of
technocratic group that he's going to chair, which is going
to look to look after Palestine in the meantime, I
think there's some there's some something to that. It's what
happened after the Second World War in the likes of Berlin,
and it kind of worked, So I think there's something
to that. I think we should we should just suspend
judgment for a minute or two and see how it
plays out. To Rob's point, the chances of were being
(06:44):
completely successful pretty more. But look, it's better than I've
seen in the last ten years. So good for them.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, we'll give it a chance. Now, Rob, I'm terrified
of asking you this question because I feel like I
know what the answer is going to be. Do you
think we should decriminalize drugs in New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You might pusher? Are you going to come out unveil
yourself as my pusher?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Are you if I'm pushing you drugs, I'm probably only
pushing your drugs for your heart or something like that.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Look, I think that we have to address the drug
issue as primarily a health issue, and by that I
mean a social health as well as a physical health issue.
To the extent that decriminalization can help that, I support it.
And for example, I think some things have been effectively
decriminalized anyway, like cannabis I think is something that we
(07:37):
could readily move on some of the more serious drugs.
I think we would want to proceed reasonably carefully, but
the direction should be towards not criminalizing people for using,
but criminalized people for making and trading even the dangerous drugs.
So there's got to be a way through that second,
in my view, to get to the real issues.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Phil I agree with Robin this issue. Iways been a
bit of a fan for dick rimalization, which is a
different thing to legalization, right, it's a different thing. And
I think that the challenge is when you say that,
what do you mean, who are you decriminalizing? And you
can't decriminalize the mung the or pushing the stuff, can you?
So how do you actually draw that line in the
(08:16):
sand and how do you get away.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
From standindmendalities don't use the personal.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Use yeah, in theory, although you know, you can see
how you can start to bend some lines there. But
I agree with Robin this clearly the current situation is
not working effectively. If I suspect this has never happened
to because I don't do drugs, but apparently, but you know,
if I suspect, if you we've found with some drugs
by the police, they probablyouldn't do too much. I suspect
they're just you know, leave your unless you're doing something
(08:40):
other bad. So you know, we need to just get
that real. And I certainly agree with Lob that and
other advocates too. We need to treat this as a
health issue, and that's the best way to out it,
to get people actually declaring it. To say I need
help and that will actually help clean it up. But
see that it's a hard road.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
That's a hard road, really is guys. It's great to
chat to the pair of you. Thank you so much,
Rob Campbell, Fellow Riley.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Now huddle for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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