November 3, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Thomas Scrimgeour from the Maxim Institute and Child Fund CEO Josie Pagani joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
New research out of Australia has revealed the cost of unpaid labour - and it's sparked discussion and backlash. How much housework do we do? Is it more than our partners?
Dame Noeline Taurua went out on multiple interviews today, and it's been revealed she didn't know what she did wrong - and she's been reinstated without agreeing to making any changes. What do we make of all this? Does someone need to lose their job?
Z Energy has had to apologise for an ad campaign that claimed they were getting out of the petrol business. Did they really need to apologise over this?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Should I just make the noise with my mouth ants today?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Ever?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Do for c Ellen heathern do for Cllen? The huddle
and with me?
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Now?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Is Thomas Scrimger Maximum Institute. And Joseph Gani, CEO of
Child Fund. How are you too? Hello, I'm going to
have to get it. We're having a mayor of it
with the computer system today, so one of you. If
this thing doesn't work, next time, I designate you Josie,
as having to do it. Josie, okay, yeah, that's fantastic.
There is abscrape fury coming at me, Josie on the
(00:29):
text machine over the unpaid unpaid work interview? Did you
hear that interview?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I did, and I would like to plead my nolling toto.
I'll talk from my truth, yes, not my husband's truth,
and I can't comment on specifics. I have signed an
MDA with him, yes, and there has been no formal investigation.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You are doing the lion's share of the work, and
ain't nobody paying for you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I am, and sing as my husband's out of the country,
I'm just going to throw all that away that when
our kids were small, I did do most of the
washing and he's never acknowledged it, never acknowledges it. And
I did do most of the cleaning, even though when
I was working we had a cleaner. But look, the
one tip I would give woman with this is get
your husband to do the cleaning when you've had an argument,
(01:13):
not not after the argument, when you're making up, but
when you've had an argument, because then I used to
find that my husband would he'd be desperate to prove
that he was a really good cleaner, and he polish
that bloody bathroom with a top so.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You get so spring clean done.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, if you've had an argument, you've got to do
it during the argument, not after.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, after that, don't care anymore. Thomas, are you in
a relationship with a woman?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I did hear that?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, who does the majority of everything in the house.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh well, I might have to plead the fifth on
that one as well. But I think it is an
interesting thing with these measures of domestic labor because they
are kind of a two edged sword, and that's a
really good thing that you can measure. It kind of
makes visible things that are often invisible and underacknowledged. But
it also reducing it to a dollar value. Is the
economists like to do. It could be a bit reductive.
(02:02):
I mean, it might actually have some use when talking
about the cleaning, which is perhaps no one's passion in life,
but perhaps very few mothers would consider time with their
children purely in dollar terms. So my observation would be
is that these sort of measures get a lot of
cachet with policymakers who really want to explain to people
how they ought to organize their lives, rather than to
(02:22):
recognizing the choices people make.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Are you going to kids for the time spent with them? Yeah,
because some of it was really boring.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, Thomas, are you suggesting that women love spending time
with their children so much that they want to spend
every waking minute with their children and never go away
to Oasis and Melbourne and dudes. But dudes don't have
that kind of passion, which is why they love to
go play golf at the weekends.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I wouldn't go that far here.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But I'm very careful that there are some angry, hormonal
women here. We're just looking for an excuse to pick
a fight.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
With right now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I'd say you do a lot of work in
your home that people couldn't pay you what cares are
paid to do. You're doing what?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Rephrase that, Thomas and say, Heather, you do all the
work in your home, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And no one could pay you enough to do it.
It's only a labor of love, the.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Kids said, like a true man. The huddle with New
Zealand Southeby's International Realty.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Find your one of a kind?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Right, you're back on the huddle. It's thirteen away from six.
I've got Thomas and Josie Thomas. How is it possible
that the Netball New Zealand Dame Noles crisis has actually
got worse today?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean, it's remarkable. It seems the whole process has
been a disaster from the start. But you're right, it's
it's gotten worse. Dame Nolan Totoa has come out pretty
forthrightly for someone who's just back in the job. But
I guess my observation to Netble New Zealand would be
that when you suspend someone with Dame in their title,
you better be sure everything is above board.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know, this isn't junior coach stuff. She's already got
her dame hood and you're picking a flight with her.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I just want to say.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I was really impressed, Dan noling Toto. I did come
out and say that you didn't want to go legal
or take the legal route with Netblee New Zealand because
she was concerned that it was both taxpayers money and
money that would ultimately otherwise go to grassroots netball. So
she clearly has a sense of I guess do these
other parties involved. It's not just personal for her, but
if she is vindicated, If what they're saying is we
(04:22):
don't have any explanation for why she should have been suspended,
I don't see where the CEO and the board go
from here. They seem to be in hot water.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right, I mean, like, honestly, Josie, how do you stand
a woman down without telling her what she's been stood
down for?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
So anyone who's been through this as an employer or
an employee knows that for a start, let's start right
at the end. When you've got an agreement, you agree
talking lines media message, what are you going to say?
You make sure that you're saying the same thing. You know,
you do some media training around it as well. It
felt like she came out and basically said very openly
(04:59):
there was known investigation. I still don't know why I
was stood down. I'm just happy to be back, and
it was horrible. That's an incompetence.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
They put out a statement to clarify that that is
exactly what she was saying, because what the statement now says,
this is a statement that came out about an hour ago.
The statement says she they could not give her specifics
because it would compromise the anonymity of the individual players.
So there were no specific.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
As mental and so you can't do that right even
if you use the whistleblower legislation, which exists. And I've
been through processes like that as an employer where somebody's
done a whistleblowing process. They don't want their identity known,
but they want to complain about someone or something in
the organization. But even then, when you go through a process,
(05:42):
you still have to give specific examples. So you can't
just go, for example, Noline, you were rude to your players.
You have to go you were rude because you said
blah blah blah and you did blah blah blah. So
you don't have to name the person. You do have
to give specific examples, and then you have a right
to defend yourself and then you come to an agreement
(06:03):
whereby either you're going to move the person on, you're
going to negotiate that, even with a press release, even
with talking points about who says what. But in this case,
she's staying and they still haven't done that work when negotiated,
who's saying, what's what's our line on this? That's legitimate.
So it's just been an absolute cluster from beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Totally, Yeah, totally. I think you're on Thomas, You're on
the money. I agree with you. I think that the
chair of the board has got to go in the
CEO as well. Now, what did you make Thomas of
Z Energy get getting in trouble for that greenwashing?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, my first thought was that petrol Company should
probably stop feeling embarrassed about selling petrol. It's a good thing.
You know, we might hope to move away from a
world where we need to burn fossil fuels, but until
the day we do so, it's a good and honorable
profession to do it, and they should just be proud
of the service they provide. They kind of wanted to
pretend to be something they weren't. They were almost embarrassed
(06:59):
about their profession. And yeah, they should probably get a
slap on the risk for that ad They were not
getting out of the business of selling petrol. But we
all need it. They should just embrace their identity and
say it's a great thing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well said, I agree with him, Josie, what about you.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, And it's always it's been the petrol companies and airlines.
In other words, you know, organizations and sectors that use
a hell of a lot of petrol and oil and
diesel and whatever who keep doing this kind of green
washing stuff. And what you're finding globally is that there's
corporates moving away from this because people have gone holder
in a minute, A that's ridiculous, just as you said, Thomas,
(07:35):
but also the whole ESG movements. It was environment social governance.
You know, Oh, we're a good ESG corporate as we
do good things in the environment, we look after people's
social and governors. Well, the thing is, they all piled
into the climate stuff because it's pretty easy for them.
It doesn't actually affect their bottom line at all. What
they didn't do was pile into the s bit of that,
(07:57):
which is the social bit. Ie. And we're going to
increase wages and share our wealth with our workers. No,
they didn't do that because that's going to cost them money.
So I think it's just the general sense of cynicism
that people have for this kind of stuff, where they're going, guys,
you're just bullshitting us, you know, and you're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
ESG is yesterday's business, right, What is the new ESG?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
That's really interesting because working for a charity, if we say,
as I do, if we say we're doing good in
Solomon Islands and we're bringing clean water blah blah blah,
we have to prove it, right, We have to show it,
prove it with data, with evidence. Corporates when they say
we're doing wonderful things for the climate, they don't have
to prove it. They don't have to do an audit
(08:40):
on whether they're doing it. So what you're finding that
corporates are doing now is that they're moving away from
ESG and they're looking at, say, charities that do something
that aligns with what they do, and they go, well,
we're actually going to fund these guys to do it
because they know what they're doing and they have to
report on it, and we're going to stop pretending we're
a charity.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, guys, thank you a pretty she had it so much,
pair of you. That's Thomas Scrimger, Joseph ganni Our, Hutle
this evening. The new is ESG. The point I'm trying
to make is it's all over the wokie stuff. The
new ESG is energy security and geostrategy. That's all people
care about.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Should I just make the noise with my mouth ants today?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Ever?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Do for c Ellen heathern do for Cllen? The huddle
and with me?
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Now?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Is Thomas Scrimger Maximum Institute. And Joseph Gani, CEO of
Child Fund. How are you too? Hello, I'm going to
have to get it. We're having a mayor of it
with the computer system today, so one of you. If
this thing doesn't work, next time, I designate you Josie,
as having to do it. Josie, okay, yeah, that's fantastic.
There is abscrape fury coming at me, Josie on the
(00:29):
text machine over the unpaid unpaid work interview? Did you
hear that interview?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I did, and I would like to plead my nolling toto.
I'll talk from my truth, yes, not my husband's truth,
and I can't comment on specifics. I have signed an
MDA with him, yes, and there has been no formal investigation.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You are doing the lion's share of the work, and
ain't nobody paying for you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I am, and sing as my husband's out of the country,
I'm just going to throw all that away that when
our kids were small, I did do most of the
washing and he's never acknowledged it, never acknowledges it. And
I did do most of the cleaning, even though when
I was working we had a cleaner. But look, the
one tip I would give woman with this is get
your husband to do the cleaning when you've had an argument,
(01:13):
not not after the argument, when you're making up, but
when you've had an argument, because then I used to
find that my husband would he'd be desperate to prove
that he was a really good cleaner, and he polish
that bloody bathroom with a top so.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You get so spring clean done.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, if you've had an argument, you've got to do
it during the argument, not after.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, after that, don't care anymore. Thomas, are you in
a relationship with a woman?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I did hear that?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, who does the majority of everything in the house.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh well, I might have to plead the fifth on
that one as well. But I think it is an
interesting thing with these measures of domestic labor because they
are kind of a two edged sword, and that's a
really good thing that you can measure. It kind of
makes visible things that are often invisible and underacknowledged. But
it also reducing it to a dollar value. Is the
economists like to do. It could be a bit reductive.
(02:02):
I mean, it might actually have some use when talking
about the cleaning, which is perhaps no one's passion in life,
but perhaps very few mothers would consider time with their
children purely in dollar terms. So my observation would be
is that these sort of measures get a lot of
cachet with policymakers who really want to explain to people
how they ought to organize their lives, rather than to
(02:22):
recognizing the choices people make.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Are you going to kids for the time spent with them? Yeah,
because some of it was really boring.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, Thomas, are you suggesting that women love spending time
with their children so much that they want to spend
every waking minute with their children and never go away
to Oasis and Melbourne and dudes. But dudes don't have
that kind of passion, which is why they love to
go play golf at the weekends.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I wouldn't go that far here.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But I'm very careful that there are some angry, hormonal
women here. We're just looking for an excuse to pick
a fight.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
With right now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I'd say you do a lot of work in
your home that people couldn't pay you what cares are
paid to do. You're doing what?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Rephrase that, Thomas and say, Heather, you do all the
work in your home, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And no one could pay you enough to do it.
It's only a labor of love, the.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Kids said, like a true man. The huddle with New
Zealand Southeby's International Realty.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Find your one of a kind?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Right, you're back on the huddle. It's thirteen away from six.
I've got Thomas and Josie Thomas. How is it possible
that the Netball New Zealand Dame Noles crisis has actually
got worse today?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean, it's remarkable. It seems the whole process has
been a disaster from the start. But you're right, it's
it's gotten worse. Dame Nolan Totoa has come out pretty
forthrightly for someone who's just back in the job. But
I guess my observation to Netble New Zealand would be
that when you suspend someone with Dame in their title,
you better be sure everything is above board.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know, this isn't junior coach stuff. She's already got
her dame hood and you're picking a flight with her.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I just want to say.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I was really impressed, Dan noling Toto. I did come
out and say that you didn't want to go legal
or take the legal route with Netblee New Zealand because
she was concerned that it was both taxpayers money and
money that would ultimately otherwise go to grassroots netball. So
she clearly has a sense of I guess do these
other parties involved. It's not just personal for her, but
if she is vindicated, If what they're saying is we
(04:22):
don't have any explanation for why she should have been suspended,
I don't see where the CEO and the board go
from here. They seem to be in hot water.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right, I mean, like, honestly, Josie, how do you stand
a woman down without telling her what she's been stood
down for?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
So anyone who's been through this as an employer or
an employee knows that for a start, let's start right
at the end. When you've got an agreement, you agree
talking lines media message, what are you going to say?
You make sure that you're saying the same thing. You know,
you do some media training around it as well. It
felt like she came out and basically said very openly
(04:59):
there was known investigation. I still don't know why I
was stood down. I'm just happy to be back, and
it was horrible. That's an incompetence.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
They put out a statement to clarify that that is
exactly what she was saying, because what the statement now says,
this is a statement that came out about an hour ago.
The statement says she they could not give her specifics
because it would compromise the anonymity of the individual players.
So there were no specific.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
As mental and so you can't do that right even
if you use the whistleblower legislation, which exists. And I've
been through processes like that as an employer where somebody's
done a whistleblowing process. They don't want their identity known,
but they want to complain about someone or something in
the organization. But even then, when you go through a process,
(05:42):
you still have to give specific examples. So you can't
just go, for example, Noline, you were rude to your players.
You have to go you were rude because you said
blah blah blah and you did blah blah blah. So
you don't have to name the person. You do have
to give specific examples, and then you have a right
to defend yourself and then you come to an agreement
(06:03):
whereby either you're going to move the person on, you're
going to negotiate that, even with a press release, even
with talking points about who says what. But in this case,
she's staying and they still haven't done that work when negotiated,
who's saying, what's what's our line on this? That's legitimate.
So it's just been an absolute cluster from beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Totally, Yeah, totally. I think you're on Thomas, You're on
the money. I agree with you. I think that the
chair of the board has got to go in the
CEO as well. Now, what did you make Thomas of
Z Energy get getting in trouble for that greenwashing?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, my first thought was that petrol Company should
probably stop feeling embarrassed about selling petrol. It's a good thing.
You know, we might hope to move away from a
world where we need to burn fossil fuels, but until
the day we do so, it's a good and honorable
profession to do it, and they should just be proud
of the service they provide. They kind of wanted to
pretend to be something they weren't. They were almost embarrassed
(06:59):
about their profession. And yeah, they should probably get a
slap on the risk for that ad They were not
getting out of the business of selling petrol. But we
all need it. They should just embrace their identity and
say it's a great thing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well said, I agree with him, Josie, what about you.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, And it's always it's been the petrol companies and airlines.
In other words, you know, organizations and sectors that use
a hell of a lot of petrol and oil and
diesel and whatever who keep doing this kind of green
washing stuff. And what you're finding globally is that there's
corporates moving away from this because people have gone holder
in a minute, A that's ridiculous, just as you said, Thomas,
(07:35):
but also the whole ESG movements. It was environment social governance.
You know, Oh, we're a good ESG corporate as we
do good things in the environment, we look after people's
social and governors. Well, the thing is, they all piled
into the climate stuff because it's pretty easy for them.
It doesn't actually affect their bottom line at all. What
they didn't do was pile into the s bit of that,
(07:57):
which is the social bit. Ie. And we're going to
increase wages and share our wealth with our workers. No,
they didn't do that because that's going to cost them money.
So I think it's just the general sense of cynicism
that people have for this kind of stuff, where they're going, guys,
you're just bullshitting us, you know, and you're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
ESG is yesterday's business, right, What is the new ESG?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
That's really interesting because working for a charity, if we say,
as I do, if we say we're doing good in
Solomon Islands and we're bringing clean water blah blah blah,
we have to prove it, right, We have to show it,
prove it with data, with evidence. Corporates when they say
we're doing wonderful things for the climate, they don't have
to prove it. They don't have to do an audit
(08:40):
on whether they're doing it. So what you're finding that
corporates are doing now is that they're moving away from
ESG and they're looking at, say, charities that do something
that aligns with what they do, and they go, well,
we're actually going to fund these guys to do it
because they know what they're doing and they have to
report on it, and we're going to stop pretending we're
a charity.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, guys, thank you a pretty she had it so much,
pair of you. That's Thomas Scrimger, Joseph ganni Our, Hutle
this evening. The new is ESG. The point I'm trying
to make is it's all over the wokie stuff. The
new ESG is energy security and geostrategy. That's all people
care about.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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