May 27, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Thomas Scrimgeour from the Maxim Institute and Ali Jones from Red PR joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Have police and the Government made a mistake saying every crime will be investigated after yesterday's controversial memo leak? Should they have tried to clarify?
A teenager has died after a combative run it straight-style game with friends went wrong. Should we try and crack down on this - or is it too late?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay. On the huddle with me, I've got Thomas Scringer
(00:02):
of Maximum Institution and Allie Jones of read PR. Hello
you two. Hi that Thomas, I'm so confused. Do the
police or do the police not investigate shoplifts under five
hundred dollars?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well hither. I think one of the reasons people are
getting a bit upset about this is that they heard
about this leaked memo and it was believable. There's kind
of an ongoing problem of retail crime not being addressed,
and this news hasn't told us anything that a lot
of people didn't believe already. Yeah. The other question is like,
what is even meant by investigate? You know, there's a
(00:35):
lot of things that are investigated, and that they took
some notes and put it in a database for crime statistics,
but don't really have any ability to go further. The
risk is that over time this stuff erodes norms and trust.
Obviously police have limited resources, but if people know it's
open season on minor retail crime, then it's just going
to increase in number.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah. I mean, he makes a really good point, doesn't
the ali, Because actually, even if it's even for all
of the explaining that they're doing. Now a lot of
people are just going to believe that it is the case.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, I think so. I think actually Stuart Nation made
some really good points. I don't think they've said that
every crime will be investigated. What I've heard is we
will continue to catch offenders wherever possible. I think they
said there will be a police response. That can mean anything.
That can be a phone call to the shop to say,
how are you going? Anyone hurt? Yeah, okay, we'll get
(01:26):
there if we can. I mean, I think I think
Thomas is right here. This has all come from this
ridiculous What the hell is the file management center anyway?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So Ali is the vile management center? Not where you
When the call comes in and it gets it becomes
it becomes a file, it becomes a case note, it
gets sent to them, doesn't it to file it somewhere?
They're like the librarians, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, well who would know? I mean I had a
visual straight away of this room full of files. I
mean that's just because you know, that's how I was
imagining it. But I mean they said that they were
applying nationally standardized value thresholds basically, and how the hell
you can be so prescriptive on something like that. I
do not know. I think what Stuart Nationally was correct.
It will depend on where the priorities are and who
(02:09):
they have available. But you cannot rule out not investigating
these crimes. I think as soon as you do, it's
open season.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah. But also at the same time, Thomas, we have
to be realistic, don't They're just simply are not enough
police officers to go around for all of the crimes
that are reported, and therefore we have to put more
power in the retailer's hands, don't we.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, I mean, obviously retailers and certainly some advocates have
been calling for the citizens arrest things we've been hearing about,
which is fine so far as it goes. I'm open
to it. But we don't want retailers having to defend
themselves to be our policy prescription for crime. We need
the cops to be able to say we are able
to address this ourselves. Citizens arrests are a policy of
(02:51):
last resort, not a plan.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I agree, heither, I don't understand what the big issue
is here, though. I mean, if someone is going to
rip someone off in a shop, they are not going
to know what the priorities are for the police at
that time. So it's kind of a bit like Russian roulette.
So if you're going to steal something, you could be investigated,
you may not, but is it worth the risk? And
I think that's probably the way the police are applying it.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Maybe so, So what you're doing is if you're going
to go nick your four are you saying you're going
to go nick your four hundred and ninety nine dollar
thing to be under the five hundred dollars threshold, you're
taking a bit of a punt as to whether the
cops are available that day or not.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
No, I think the dollar limit is just an absolute
redhead hearring. I really do. I think we have to
ignore the dollar the dollar value. I don't think if
someone is found stealing a bottle of nail polish, that's
probably a bit different. But I don't think that there's
a line there that says, you know, five hundred bucks.
I think it's dependent on whether police are available or not. Yes,
and that's what the shoplift has got to consider, regardless
(03:47):
of what they're stealing.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Actually, yes, okay, that's a fair point. All right, we'll
take a break, come back to you guys shortly write
you back with a huddle. Alie, what are we going
to do about this? Run it nonsense?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Oh Heather, isn't it just tragic? I mean, this young
man that's recently died watching it on the TV, watching
grown men run at each other, young men and women
and young women. They do stupid things, right, but it
shouldn't cost them their life. And this is just stupid,
absolutely stupid. We all know the dangers and I actually
think anyone who organizes this as a part of this,
(04:18):
promotes this, shows it on social media, should be done
for attempted murder. I think this potentially is something that
is going to kill people as we are seeing, and
I think people should be held accountable for it.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I mean, Thomas, I think we all want to hold
somebody accountable, but realistically we can't. Really the only we
can't even ban it really because because we'll just do
it wherever. So what do you do? I mean, do
you just to just talk to kids and keep ramming
home the message you can't do this?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah? Well, I mean I think it's important to acknowledge
that though this was an incredibly tragic loss of life,
with this young man passing away, he was not participating
in any formal event as far as I understand it.
So there is this formal run it straight event that's
being organized, but he was just participating with some presumably friends,
doing something that wasn't wise. And I worry when our
(05:07):
first response to any tragedy is immediately okay, how do
we step it? And how can we immediately solve this problem?
What should the government have already done? I think the
run at straight events is a formal thing probably shouldn't happen,
Certainly I can't imagine that pass any work, safe assessment,
protection for the people who are participating. But in the
case of this young man passing away, I think it's
(05:30):
a tragedy and a lesson to be learned. But there's
not actually anything government could do.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Well, maybe they could run a public information campaign. Then
you know, we talk about the dangers with smoking, we
talk about the danger of cholesterol and diabetes. I mean,
your brain jiggling around inside your skull is quite clearly
quite dangerous and can kill you. So holling maybe the government.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I agree with you, but I mean, obviously that's a
message we want to ram home. But haven't we been
talking about this with regard to sport and contact sport
for like decades now?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And so have we have we though it's been on
the news, well, I think it's been on the news.
And you could say the same about five plus a day.
You could say that about a whole lot of stuff
that we try and put out there from a public information,
you know, perspective. But I think that this has become
such a fad if you like now, and the fact
that it's got grown ups doing it, and as Thomas mentioned,
(06:20):
you've got these almost sanctioned official events. I think it's
quite different. I think that something seriously has to be
done and be done soon, and I think some information
let's see those brains jiggling around inside those heads and
sea eyes rolling back and people dying, because that's what
it does too.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, I mean you wouldn't You would think, though, Allie,
that that just what watching these videos, seeing somebody get
the head knock and convulse on the ground should be
enough to make the kids not want to do it.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And yet I do one of them want to watch that?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Though?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
What was that thing Jackass or something on TV years ago? Right?
That's people like watching that stuff. I can't watch it. It
actually makes me feel sick. But people love that noise,
they love that crunch, they love people landing with a
bar between the leagues or whatever. So there's always going
to be a market for someone to see something like that,
and it's just gross. We have to stop it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, Now, thoughts Thomas on mccron v. Macron on the plane.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, I mean here there as a general rule, I
try not to understand the French. It's a it's a
place I just I don't want to wrap my head around.
But what I want to say is Emmanuel Macron is
a pro. You know, the door is open here realizes
and immediately he switched on with a big grin. So
he's clearly clearly a pro when it comes to politicking.
(07:34):
And what about the guy who opened the door, I mean,
he's well, I wasn't going to call for it, but
he has one job and it's opened the door at
the right time and he picked the wrong time.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Man. I'll tell you what, though, Allie, have you ever
considered like you did you pause at any point during
the day and thinks if it was the other way around,
if it was a dude shoving his hands in a
woman's face, the difference that it would be.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I thought you were going to say, did you pause
the video so you could see? Really No, I didn't
think about the gender swap, to be honest, because I'm
so fascinated by my call us.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I want to call us out because we're all finding
this mildly amusing that it's a woman doing it to
a man. But it's still domestic violence, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I remember who was. It was a Nigella lawson
and her then husband a number of years ago, and
he put his hands up around her face or neck,
and that was all over the media. I think it
comes down to weather. People really genuinely believe this was
a physical altercation or a bit of you know, a
bit of fun. I think that she was seriously annoyed
(08:39):
and clearly is take. Yeah, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
He's saying it's a bit of a joke around last
time you were having a bit of fun with your
husband and shoved your hands in his mouth.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I ask that question.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
No, that's yeah, No, I'm not that's too much information.
Thanks Heather.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes, really good place to leave it, guys.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Ellie Jones read per Thomas Scriminger, Maximum Institute.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Wow, that's all I have to say. If you haven't
seen the video, go and watch it, because Wow, you
just knew that those two had that kind of a relationship,
didn't there.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Okay. On the huddle with me, I've got Thomas Scringer
(00:02):
of Maximum Institution and Allie Jones of read PR. Hello
you two. Hi that Thomas, I'm so confused. Do the
police or do the police not investigate shoplifts under five
hundred dollars?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well hither. I think one of the reasons people are
getting a bit upset about this is that they heard
about this leaked memo and it was believable. There's kind
of an ongoing problem of retail crime not being addressed,
and this news hasn't told us anything that a lot
of people didn't believe already. Yeah. The other question is like,
what is even meant by investigate? You know, there's a
(00:35):
lot of things that are investigated, and that they took
some notes and put it in a database for crime statistics,
but don't really have any ability to go further. The
risk is that over time this stuff erodes norms and trust.
Obviously police have limited resources, but if people know it's
open season on minor retail crime, then it's just going
to increase in number.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah. I mean, he makes a really good point, doesn't
the ali, Because actually, even if it's even for all
of the explaining that they're doing. Now a lot of
people are just going to believe that it is the case.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, I think so. I think actually Stuart Nation made
some really good points. I don't think they've said that
every crime will be investigated. What I've heard is we
will continue to catch offenders wherever possible. I think they
said there will be a police response. That can mean anything.
That can be a phone call to the shop to say,
how are you going? Anyone hurt? Yeah, okay, we'll get
(01:26):
there if we can. I mean, I think I think
Thomas is right here. This has all come from this
ridiculous What the hell is the file management center anyway?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So Ali is the vile management center? Not where you
When the call comes in and it gets it becomes
it becomes a file, it becomes a case note, it
gets sent to them, doesn't it to file it somewhere?
They're like the librarians, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, well who would know? I mean I had a
visual straight away of this room full of files. I
mean that's just because you know, that's how I was
imagining it. But I mean they said that they were
applying nationally standardized value thresholds basically, and how the hell
you can be so prescriptive on something like that. I
do not know. I think what Stuart Nationally was correct.
It will depend on where the priorities are and who
(02:09):
they have available. But you cannot rule out not investigating
these crimes. I think as soon as you do, it's
open season.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah. But also at the same time, Thomas, we have
to be realistic, don't They're just simply are not enough
police officers to go around for all of the crimes
that are reported, and therefore we have to put more
power in the retailer's hands, don't we.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, I mean, obviously retailers and certainly some advocates have
been calling for the citizens arrest things we've been hearing about,
which is fine so far as it goes. I'm open
to it. But we don't want retailers having to defend
themselves to be our policy prescription for crime. We need
the cops to be able to say we are able
to address this ourselves. Citizens arrests are a policy of
(02:51):
last resort, not a plan.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I agree, heither, I don't understand what the big issue
is here, though. I mean, if someone is going to
rip someone off in a shop, they are not going
to know what the priorities are for the police at
that time. So it's kind of a bit like Russian roulette.
So if you're going to steal something, you could be investigated,
you may not, but is it worth the risk? And
I think that's probably the way the police are applying it.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Maybe so, So what you're doing is if you're going
to go nick your four are you saying you're going
to go nick your four hundred and ninety nine dollar
thing to be under the five hundred dollars threshold, you're
taking a bit of a punt as to whether the
cops are available that day or not.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
No, I think the dollar limit is just an absolute
redhead hearring. I really do. I think we have to
ignore the dollar the dollar value. I don't think if
someone is found stealing a bottle of nail polish, that's
probably a bit different. But I don't think that there's
a line there that says, you know, five hundred bucks.
I think it's dependent on whether police are available or not. Yes,
and that's what the shoplift has got to consider, regardless
(03:47):
of what they're stealing.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Actually, yes, okay, that's a fair point. All right, we'll
take a break, come back to you guys shortly write
you back with a huddle. Alie, what are we going
to do about this? Run it nonsense?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Oh Heather, isn't it just tragic? I mean, this young
man that's recently died watching it on the TV, watching
grown men run at each other, young men and women
and young women. They do stupid things, right, but it
shouldn't cost them their life. And this is just stupid,
absolutely stupid. We all know the dangers and I actually
think anyone who organizes this as a part of this,
(04:18):
promotes this, shows it on social media, should be done
for attempted murder. I think this potentially is something that
is going to kill people as we are seeing, and
I think people should be held accountable for it.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I mean, Thomas, I think we all want to hold
somebody accountable, but realistically we can't. Really the only we
can't even ban it really because because we'll just do
it wherever. So what do you do? I mean, do
you just to just talk to kids and keep ramming
home the message you can't do this?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah? Well, I mean I think it's important to acknowledge
that though this was an incredibly tragic loss of life,
with this young man passing away, he was not participating
in any formal event as far as I understand it.
So there is this formal run it straight event that's
being organized, but he was just participating with some presumably friends,
doing something that wasn't wise. And I worry when our
(05:07):
first response to any tragedy is immediately okay, how do
we step it? And how can we immediately solve this problem?
What should the government have already done? I think the
run at straight events is a formal thing probably shouldn't happen,
Certainly I can't imagine that pass any work, safe assessment,
protection for the people who are participating. But in the
case of this young man passing away, I think it's
(05:30):
a tragedy and a lesson to be learned. But there's
not actually anything government could do.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Well, maybe they could run a public information campaign. Then
you know, we talk about the dangers with smoking, we
talk about the danger of cholesterol and diabetes. I mean,
your brain jiggling around inside your skull is quite clearly
quite dangerous and can kill you. So holling maybe the government.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I agree with you, but I mean, obviously that's a
message we want to ram home. But haven't we been
talking about this with regard to sport and contact sport
for like decades now?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And so have we have we though it's been on
the news, well, I think it's been on the news.
And you could say the same about five plus a day.
You could say that about a whole lot of stuff
that we try and put out there from a public information,
you know, perspective. But I think that this has become
such a fad if you like now, and the fact
that it's got grown ups doing it, and as Thomas mentioned,
(06:20):
you've got these almost sanctioned official events. I think it's
quite different. I think that something seriously has to be
done and be done soon, and I think some information
let's see those brains jiggling around inside those heads and
sea eyes rolling back and people dying, because that's what
it does too.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, I mean you wouldn't You would think, though, Allie,
that that just what watching these videos, seeing somebody get
the head knock and convulse on the ground should be
enough to make the kids not want to do it.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And yet I do one of them want to watch that?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Though?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
What was that thing Jackass or something on TV years ago? Right?
That's people like watching that stuff. I can't watch it. It
actually makes me feel sick. But people love that noise,
they love that crunch, they love people landing with a
bar between the leagues or whatever. So there's always going
to be a market for someone to see something like that,
and it's just gross. We have to stop it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, Now, thoughts Thomas on mccron v. Macron on the plane.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, I mean here there as a general rule, I
try not to understand the French. It's a it's a
place I just I don't want to wrap my head around.
But what I want to say is Emmanuel Macron is
a pro. You know, the door is open here realizes
and immediately he switched on with a big grin. So
he's clearly clearly a pro when it comes to politicking.
(07:34):
And what about the guy who opened the door, I mean,
he's well, I wasn't going to call for it, but
he has one job and it's opened the door at
the right time and he picked the wrong time.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Man. I'll tell you what, though, Allie, have you ever
considered like you did you pause at any point during
the day and thinks if it was the other way around,
if it was a dude shoving his hands in a
woman's face, the difference that it would be.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I thought you were going to say, did you pause
the video so you could see? Really No, I didn't
think about the gender swap, to be honest, because I'm
so fascinated by my call us.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I want to call us out because we're all finding
this mildly amusing that it's a woman doing it to
a man. But it's still domestic violence, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I remember who was. It was a Nigella lawson
and her then husband a number of years ago, and
he put his hands up around her face or neck,
and that was all over the media. I think it
comes down to weather. People really genuinely believe this was
a physical altercation or a bit of you know, a
bit of fun. I think that she was seriously annoyed
(08:39):
and clearly is take. Yeah, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
He's saying it's a bit of a joke around last
time you were having a bit of fun with your
husband and shoved your hands in his mouth.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I ask that question.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
No, that's yeah, No, I'm not that's too much information.
Thanks Heather.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes, really good place to leave it, guys.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Ellie Jones read per Thomas Scriminger, Maximum Institute.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Wow, that's all I have to say. If you haven't
seen the video, go and watch it, because Wow, you
just knew that those two had that kind of a relationship,
didn't there.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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