August 4, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR and Child Fund CEO Josie Pagani joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
A pair of Aussie comedians have taken a satirical look at the annoying aspects of the workplace in their book 'Wankernomics'. Are we guilty of using annoying phrases and spending too much time on LinkedIn.
Donald Trump surprised New Zealand with a 15 percent tariff last week - do we stand a chance at negotiating a better deal?
The Government is set to scrap NCEA and overhaul the whole educational system - what do we make of this? Were these changes needed?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Twenty away from six the Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's
(00:03):
International Realty Unique Homes Uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
On the huddle with me this evening, we have Tris
Sherson of Shehirson, Willis pr and Joe SPEGANI CEO of
Child Found. Hello you too, Hello Hello? You were giggling
all the way through that trash? Did this just remind
you of your day job?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I just I absolutely love it. And what I'm worried
about now is am I going to be consigned to
the bill the bin of corporate wankery? Because I am
quite a big LinkedIn user and quite a big proponent
of linclin.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
No, what's the value of lincodin?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So tell it.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Well, let me tell you my journey, which is another
terrible corporate Back in the day, I was one of
those people. I actually called LinkedIn Facebook for accountants and
I laughed in its face, haha LinkedIn. But what I
have actually found is that LinkedIn now it's gone from
the place where everyone's just saying I'm proud to or whatever.
(00:55):
It's an incredible place for learning. If you want to
learn about AI, you go on to LinkedIn and you
follow the right people, amazing learning. It is at its heart,
LinkedIn is an educational tool. That's what it was formed for,
and I think there's been a huge maturity in the users.
As someone who works in communications, I have never had
(01:15):
such a data rich, real time ANALYTICOL tool for clients.
It is actually fantastic.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So there we go. I'm you know, I'm I'm admits.
I think we've I think we've got the cut of
herd job now haven't we? Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I can't stand LinkedIn honestly, I get any more alerts
about people's skills, people's new jobsnisaries, new jobs anniversaries, and
so I've banned meetings in our organization or you can
have them, but you've got to stand up so that
it lasts too long.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
But the serious ways of pushing back on this virus
is as as the as James the author called it.
I mean, it's things like powerpoints, isn't it. We all
know that most people do really stupid, shitty powerpoints with
way too many words on them, and they always go,
I don't expect you to read this, but I'm just
going to talk to it. Well, why did you put
it up there? If we can't read it. So what
(02:10):
happens is everybody starts to think that it's actually like
a secret handshake. You have to talk in this jargon
rich language, and you have to do a really bad
PowerPoint with thousands of words on one slide and font
nine in order to sort of look like you know
what you're talking about it. So it's going to Honestly,
there's a pushback on this. And I work in development,
(02:32):
aid and development. There are so much jargoning words in that,
like we talk about sustainable livelihoods when we actually just
mean jobs. And why we can't just like talk like humans.
I don't know. So no, I think this is wonderful.
I absolutely love it because we have to push back
on and we're going to talk about education. I've heard
somebody in this kind of you know, public sector corporate language.
(02:54):
So I've talk about scaffolding of the scaffolders of learning
to describe a teacher, and it's like, the hell are
you talking about?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, that just teaches. Thank you, thank you for pointing
out some home truths that Josie, right, Trisha, I do
want to wear education. But let's talk about the tariff's
revery quickly. It doesn't sound to me like there's any
chance we're going to get Trump to go go, you know,
to go from fifteen down to ten percent.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Is it you no chance at all? No, that that
ship has sailed. And remember I think we had this
conversation a couple of weeks ago. If you think about
if Ozzie's got ten percent tariff and we've got fifteen,
effectively we've got five percent over them. So it's not
great for New Zealand. But I don't think it's a
surprise that it was coming, and I think probably the
(03:38):
government thought it was inevitable, like they really sort of
stood back and kind of let it, let it that role.
I don't think it's great for the government in terms
of domestic politics at the moment. If you looked at
the Columbus over the weekend this that you know, they
were sort of characterizing this as a government caught on
the back foot, not really knowing again what they were
(04:00):
what they were doing. So I don't think that's great
And I just think overall again it's not good for
sort of business sentiment and confidence at the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, totally, what do you think, Josie, I think this.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Is going to really hurt us. And I don't think
we've quite grasped how much you take just one sector,
like why exporters. They have said that their profits will
be halved by this because of this tariff going from
ten to fifteen percent. And I wrote about this last
year before the US election, and we now have let's
just be realistic, we have a higher tariff than Russia.
(04:34):
In other words, we're being treated worse than Russia. And
I think we do have some negotiating power. So they
announced this higher fifteen per cent tariff the day after
the FBI office was announced that we're having a New Zealand.
I think they can say, until you treat us better
than Russia, we're not having your FBI off.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know what, I think we know we've got a
little bit of a little bit of leverage, but we
were too scared to use it in case more stuff
came at us. But well talked Nichola Willis about it
when she's with us.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
After six for huddle with New Zealand, Southeby's International Realty,
the ones for Unmatched Results.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Right, you're back with the huddle. We've got Joe SPEGANI
and Tricious and so Josie, what do you think of
getting rid of NCEA.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
The right thing to do. I mean, this is potentially
the most transformational thing the government has done so far,
and I think whatever your political persuasions, they deserve credit
for it. And they've done it sooner than I thought.
And I think the opposition I saw Willow Jene Prime
from Labor, you know, accusing Erica Stanford of rushing changes
(05:33):
through now for political expediency. Well, getting things done really
quickly when you can see the obvious fault is actually
a really good thing, and I think it would be
better of Labor kind of got behind this because Erica
Stanford has done this with a panel of principles. She
hasn't just kind of waded in and gone right national
government where a lunatic government we're going to make these changes.
(05:55):
She's actually done it with the sector as much as
possible onside, And I do think the media, you know,
not said b I have to say, but a lot
of the media we've spent so much time talking about
school lunches. I mean, there are hundreds of stories on
Blimen's school lunches that we've ignored. You know, what is
really a rapid decline over the last ten years and
(06:17):
standards and it's the poorest kids that have been impacted.
So no, this is I think this is a really
good thing. People are saying devil's in the detail. Well
it always is, really and I just think the fact
we know that NCA hasn't worked as a parent, I've
never understood it. My eldest boy got a whole bunch
of credits and excellence for being top of his class
(06:37):
for coming up with the most words for penis and vagina,
So you go, what the.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Hell is it?
Speaker 5 (06:42):
For real?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Wow, it's for real.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Yes, this is years ago, but that's you know, that's
the kind of thing that they were doing. Were you thinking?
And he's done all right, But a lot of kids
in the system under NCA, well you know, are not
really equipped for the workforce, let alone for universities.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So it's a good Do you think she's PM material?
And this is apropos the columns at.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
The weekend, Well you asked why Erica was MVP, and
it goes to Josie's statement, this is not a rush job.
This is a rare minister who has spent many years
developing detailed, detailed policy and as a minister. She has
worked through this absolutely methodically. She is one of the
(07:26):
few ministers. In your interview with her, she is giving
you actually the nuts and bolts. She's not falling into
the trap that the Prime Minister and other ministers do
now where they spend all of their answers to questions
on these shows and others just stating what the problem is. Well,
we all know what the problem is. We want to
(07:47):
know what you're going to.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Do about it.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So I am a big fan. She is one of
the best things National has going for it in terms
of getting the women's vote back.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, I agree.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I can't tell you the number of women who are
literally fangirling on Eric Stanford because as mothers, they go,
here's a person who gets it, who is practical. She's
got her hands on the clay. She deeply understands what's happening,
and she's rolling out these big changes. I love the
NCAA stuff. What I also love is, as she alluded to,
(08:21):
she's going to next roll out twice yearly assessments so
parents will know exactly where their kids are at. It's
all fantastic and I think that is why she's a
great communicator. She really knows her stuff. She cares about
policy and detail, not just so you know content on
social media. I think that's why people are talking about
(08:45):
her as PM material.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That's the one can your breath there, Josie.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
I did, just because I do think we still got
to acknowledge why on earth it was that the NCA
system came into place in the first place, and it
was to look at those kids who don't well in exams.
Are they being assessed in other ways that we could
work out, Okay, this kid has actually got a career
path here. So there is some good stuff in the NCEA.
The kids that aren't going to do well in exams
(09:10):
deserve some way of indicating what they're going to be
good at in terms of their jobs. And I think,
you know, look, if that's where labor can come in
and go, hey, let's keep let's keep what's good and
check out what's bad, and let's work together on something
that's going to benefit.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
But the problem is for our kids, Josie, we have
then engineered a system all one way. So we engineered
a system all around kids who weren't good at exams. Yes,
and that has it's dumbed down the whole thing and
made it unusable.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I totally agree. Hey guys, thank you so much, really
appreciate it. Trishason Sharson Willis prj Spguani, CEO of Chant Fund.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
For more from Heather duplessy Ellen Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Twenty away from six the Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's
(00:03):
International Realty Unique Homes Uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
On the huddle with me this evening, we have Tris
Sherson of Shehirson, Willis pr and Joe SPEGANI CEO of
Child Found. Hello you too, Hello Hello? You were giggling
all the way through that trash? Did this just remind
you of your day job?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I just I absolutely love it. And what I'm worried
about now is am I going to be consigned to
the bill the bin of corporate wankery? Because I am
quite a big LinkedIn user and quite a big proponent
of linclin.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
No, what's the value of lincodin?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So tell it.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Well, let me tell you my journey, which is another
terrible corporate Back in the day, I was one of
those people. I actually called LinkedIn Facebook for accountants and
I laughed in its face, haha LinkedIn. But what I
have actually found is that LinkedIn now it's gone from
the place where everyone's just saying I'm proud to or whatever.
(00:55):
It's an incredible place for learning. If you want to
learn about AI, you go on to LinkedIn and you
follow the right people, amazing learning. It is at its heart,
LinkedIn is an educational tool. That's what it was formed for,
and I think there's been a huge maturity in the users.
As someone who works in communications, I have never had
(01:15):
such a data rich, real time ANALYTICOL tool for clients.
It is actually fantastic.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So there we go. I'm you know, I'm I'm admits.
I think we've I think we've got the cut of
herd job now haven't we? Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I can't stand LinkedIn honestly, I get any more alerts
about people's skills, people's new jobsnisaries, new jobs anniversaries, and
so I've banned meetings in our organization or you can
have them, but you've got to stand up so that
it lasts too long.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
But the serious ways of pushing back on this virus
is as as the as James the author called it.
I mean, it's things like powerpoints, isn't it. We all
know that most people do really stupid, shitty powerpoints with
way too many words on them, and they always go,
I don't expect you to read this, but I'm just
going to talk to it. Well, why did you put
it up there? If we can't read it. So what
(02:10):
happens is everybody starts to think that it's actually like
a secret handshake. You have to talk in this jargon
rich language, and you have to do a really bad
PowerPoint with thousands of words on one slide and font
nine in order to sort of look like you know
what you're talking about it. So it's going to Honestly,
there's a pushback on this. And I work in development,
(02:32):
aid and development. There are so much jargoning words in that,
like we talk about sustainable livelihoods when we actually just
mean jobs. And why we can't just like talk like humans.
I don't know. So no, I think this is wonderful.
I absolutely love it because we have to push back
on and we're going to talk about education. I've heard
somebody in this kind of you know, public sector corporate language.
(02:54):
So I've talk about scaffolding of the scaffolders of learning
to describe a teacher, and it's like, the hell are
you talking about?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, that just teaches. Thank you, thank you for pointing
out some home truths that Josie, right, Trisha, I do
want to wear education. But let's talk about the tariff's
revery quickly. It doesn't sound to me like there's any
chance we're going to get Trump to go go, you know,
to go from fifteen down to ten percent.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Is it you no chance at all? No, that that
ship has sailed. And remember I think we had this
conversation a couple of weeks ago. If you think about
if Ozzie's got ten percent tariff and we've got fifteen,
effectively we've got five percent over them. So it's not
great for New Zealand. But I don't think it's a
surprise that it was coming, and I think probably the
(03:38):
government thought it was inevitable, like they really sort of
stood back and kind of let it, let it that role.
I don't think it's great for the government in terms
of domestic politics at the moment. If you looked at
the Columbus over the weekend this that you know, they
were sort of characterizing this as a government caught on
the back foot, not really knowing again what they were
(04:00):
what they were doing. So I don't think that's great
And I just think overall again it's not good for
sort of business sentiment and confidence at the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, totally, what do you think, Josie, I think this.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Is going to really hurt us. And I don't think
we've quite grasped how much you take just one sector,
like why exporters. They have said that their profits will
be halved by this because of this tariff going from
ten to fifteen percent. And I wrote about this last
year before the US election, and we now have let's
just be realistic, we have a higher tariff than Russia.
(04:34):
In other words, we're being treated worse than Russia. And
I think we do have some negotiating power. So they
announced this higher fifteen per cent tariff the day after
the FBI office was announced that we're having a New Zealand.
I think they can say, until you treat us better
than Russia, we're not having your FBI off.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know what, I think we know we've got a
little bit of a little bit of leverage, but we
were too scared to use it in case more stuff
came at us. But well talked Nichola Willis about it
when she's with us.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
After six for huddle with New Zealand, Southeby's International Realty,
the ones for Unmatched Results.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Right, you're back with the huddle. We've got Joe SPEGANI
and Tricious and so Josie, what do you think of
getting rid of NCEA.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
The right thing to do. I mean, this is potentially
the most transformational thing the government has done so far,
and I think whatever your political persuasions, they deserve credit
for it. And they've done it sooner than I thought.
And I think the opposition I saw Willow Jene Prime
from Labor, you know, accusing Erica Stanford of rushing changes
(05:33):
through now for political expediency. Well, getting things done really
quickly when you can see the obvious fault is actually
a really good thing, and I think it would be
better of Labor kind of got behind this because Erica
Stanford has done this with a panel of principles. She
hasn't just kind of waded in and gone right national
government where a lunatic government we're going to make these changes.
(05:55):
She's actually done it with the sector as much as
possible onside, And I do think the media, you know,
not said b I have to say, but a lot
of the media we've spent so much time talking about
school lunches. I mean, there are hundreds of stories on
Blimen's school lunches that we've ignored. You know, what is
really a rapid decline over the last ten years and
(06:17):
standards and it's the poorest kids that have been impacted.
So no, this is I think this is a really
good thing. People are saying devil's in the detail. Well
it always is, really and I just think the fact
we know that NCA hasn't worked as a parent, I've
never understood it. My eldest boy got a whole bunch
of credits and excellence for being top of his class
(06:37):
for coming up with the most words for penis and vagina,
So you go, what the.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Hell is it?
Speaker 5 (06:42):
For real?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Wow, it's for real.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Yes, this is years ago, but that's you know, that's
the kind of thing that they were doing. Were you thinking?
And he's done all right, But a lot of kids
in the system under NCA, well you know, are not
really equipped for the workforce, let alone for universities.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So it's a good Do you think she's PM material?
And this is apropos the columns at.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
The weekend, Well you asked why Erica was MVP, and
it goes to Josie's statement, this is not a rush job.
This is a rare minister who has spent many years
developing detailed, detailed policy and as a minister. She has
worked through this absolutely methodically. She is one of the
(07:26):
few ministers. In your interview with her, she is giving
you actually the nuts and bolts. She's not falling into
the trap that the Prime Minister and other ministers do
now where they spend all of their answers to questions
on these shows and others just stating what the problem is. Well,
we all know what the problem is. We want to
(07:47):
know what you're going to.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Do about it.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So I am a big fan. She is one of
the best things National has going for it in terms
of getting the women's vote back.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, I agree.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I can't tell you the number of women who are
literally fangirling on Eric Stanford because as mothers, they go,
here's a person who gets it, who is practical. She's
got her hands on the clay. She deeply understands what's happening,
and she's rolling out these big changes. I love the
NCAA stuff. What I also love is, as she alluded to,
(08:21):
she's going to next roll out twice yearly assessments so
parents will know exactly where their kids are at. It's
all fantastic and I think that is why she's a
great communicator. She really knows her stuff. She cares about
policy and detail, not just so you know content on
social media. I think that's why people are talking about
(08:45):
her as PM material.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That's the one can your breath there, Josie.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
I did, just because I do think we still got
to acknowledge why on earth it was that the NCA
system came into place in the first place, and it
was to look at those kids who don't well in exams.
Are they being assessed in other ways that we could
work out, Okay, this kid has actually got a career
path here. So there is some good stuff in the NCEA.
The kids that aren't going to do well in exams
(09:10):
deserve some way of indicating what they're going to be
good at in terms of their jobs. And I think,
you know, look, if that's where labor can come in
and go, hey, let's keep let's keep what's good and
check out what's bad, and let's work together on something
that's going to benefit.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
But the problem is for our kids, Josie, we have
then engineered a system all one way. So we engineered
a system all around kids who weren't good at exams. Yes,
and that has it's dumbed down the whole thing and
made it unusable.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I totally agree. Hey guys, thank you so much, really
appreciate it. Trishason Sharson Willis prj Spguani, CEO of Chant Fund.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
For more from Heather duplessy Ellen Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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