July 29, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, CTU economist Craig Renney and Jordan Williams of the Taxpayers' Union joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Sir Michael Hill passed away today - what did we make of his legacy and professional advice? What can the rest of the nation learn from him?
The Government will run an investigation to clarify whether farm children are safe to collect the eggs and water plants. Have we completely lost the plot here?
Should medication always be checked by two pharmacists before it's dispensed? The case of a two-month-old baby dying after allegedly being given an adult dosage by a pharmacy in error has raised concerns. What do we make of this?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Unique Homes
Uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm the huddle with me this evening. We have Jordan
Williams of the Taxpayers Union and Craig Rennie c Tou
economist Highlands High Team. Jordan, did you know Sir Michael Hill?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
No, I didn't. I'd briefly met him at the Hills
Golf Club, but that was the extent of it. Yeah,
inspiration the way, amazing, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Do you do the same thing he does? Visualize your goals?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I did have a I have a Yeah, I have goals.
I don't know about that, sit down and visualize them everywhere.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
How often do you like, how far out have you
written your goals?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well it changes. You see when you have kids, they
get totally they get totally rewritten and you operate operated
on about a five year rise.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
On you know, he was doing thirty years. That's impressive. Eight.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I turned forty next year and listening I heard thet
rob five interview when I was driving out here, and
it is quite an effort to reinvent yourself at forty totally.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I mean, isn't that that is one of the more
remarkable things about him, isn't it, Craig, that it's forty
years old? He decides, right, I'm finished with being a manager.
I'm going to set up my own business. And then
look where he ended up.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Well, I think it's clearly a testament to his a
and will and as you say, his you know, his
desire to change his life. If he was forecasting his
life thirty years from now. There are plenty of economists
who have terrible track records that guessing what happens next week. No,
I know what happens thirty years from now. I guess
for me a bit like Jordan. I have a six
year old at home, so just getting through the next
(01:34):
day is pretty much my goal right now. But in
terms of Sachel, you know, he clearly has an envyable
track record and he's someone you know who will in
the business community will certainly be missed.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
He kind of Oh, sorry, Jordan's I want to know
what Craig's five year goals?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
What's your five year gold Craig, is it to be for.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
The labor part to say, ah, my five year goal,
frankly is is to still still be working and you
have not disgraced yourself in the meantime.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Minister of Finance, what's your five year gold? Jordan Humble?
Think National Party MP for Tarmaki.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
That's taken. Have you been talking to the other half?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
My other half?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
No, my other half, that's what she she just I
can only stand in taf I if I.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Do, I've heard and so I've heard whispers. There we go,
We're traced it back to the source. Have we lost
the plot, Craig? If we think that kids who are
on working farms can't collect the eggs.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
It depends upon what you mean by a working farm.
There's all that. There's so many variables here that you know,
sort of really simple statements and really kind of naive
views of what it means to work on the farm.
You know, it really isn't helpful where you New Zealand
is a country that has giant health and safety problems
where it were a country that kills seventeen workers a
(02:59):
week as a consequences of their work. We have no
minimum age of work in New zealand And, like most
of the other countries around the world. So at first
blush it may look like we've lost the plot, but
actually there are probably good reasons why we have these regulations.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Could they possibly be? Okay? So let's say, let's say
we'll go natso on this. It's a gigantic poultry farm
full of of like gigantic chicken sheds, and Johnny is
ten years old and Dead's has come with me, Johnny,
Let's go and click digs. Right, Johnny is not allowed
to do that? Why not?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
He's with us dead machinery and chemicals, animals, biosecurity.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Machinery on the toaster, and I've got chemicals under the
laundry sink. They're called like, I just feel.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Like and you're not actively encouraging your chaild to engage
with them, I imagine.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
No.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
But if the parents there, shouldn't they be okay?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
No, because the parent, the parent, the parent may gate.
There's a reason why we do this, and it may
well be the first blush that you think, well, this
is a really crazy reason why. But we we have
we have, we have, we have a terrible health and
safety record in this country, and we actually need to
get better at it. Polking small halls and things fine,
(04:21):
but it's not actually going to shift the needle. Only
of this.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I don't did you grab on a farm, Craig.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
No, godtel hall Field.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
The the.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean the said reality is kids on on quad
bikes on farms. There are a lot of tragic accidents.
I'm not convinced collecting eggs from the from the chicken
coope is causing kids to fall over with the competivector.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I tend to agree with you. What do we
have any rules children around kids on quad bikes?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I don't know, but they're probably widely ignored and that's
probably okay. Yeah, that is part And this is what
the point farmers often make is it's not just the job,
it's actually a lifestyle. And I saw this around firearms
that you get tawnies that think it is absolutely crazy
you have kids with firearms, But that is part of
(05:16):
peace controllers.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
When did you learn to shoot?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I would have been would have been certainly before I
was a teenager.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I loarned. Did you want to hear my story? Do
you want to hear my story? Craig, it's a good yarn. No,
no it's not. No, no, no, no, it's not. I learned
to shoot when I was I reckon, twelve years old.
My dad taught me to shoot rabbits, and the farm
that I learned to shoot on was the farm of
Jenny Clark, mother of Kenyan Clark of Duval fame, because
(05:45):
my dad and Jenny were partners. Is that a good
yar or what? He's basically my stepbrother? Okay, it's amazing.
Has it got that awkward? Has it got that awkward
that we're not saying anything?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
We're all picturing here that it was all them with
a firearm and slightly concerned. We're all your producers.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Not We're all absorbing this, aren't we? We thought I
was the black sheep of the family, but actually not
at all. Let's take a break.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the ones
fun mashed results.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Right, you're back with the huddle, Craig Greennie and Jordan Williams. Jordan,
why don't you just admit why you didn't react at
all to what I told you?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Because immediately I thought you were talking about some.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You didn't know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I know that, of course I knew that they were
now because I following it in the business media. But
I actually thought it was someone. I actually thought it
was someone cool and like popular culture and I think
Craig and I were sitting there thinking we feel we
should know y, whereas I washed that property developers.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Washed up as a kind as a kind describing word.
Right now, Hey, Craig, what do you reckon we do
about I've come this is apropos that the kid being
given the wrong you know, the phosphate at the adult level.
I've come to the conclusion that what you need to
do is except that the pharmacists and the doctors and
everybody's going to make mistakes from time to time because
they're humans, and you just need to check it yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
What do you think.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think it's a really difficult thing. I'm an economist
rather than a pharmacist by trade. The advice that I've
received when I've spoken to doctors and medical professionals and
workers in this area is that your prescriptions vary wildly.
So you know, the prescriptions for some infant medications take
up to two hours to prescribe, because you have to
(07:33):
know the weight of the child, you have to know
the dosage, you have to know a range of other factors.
I think in those sorts of situations it's absolutely fair
to have more than one pharmacist check whether or not
that's you know, it's it's being delivered and we should
be able to trust, you know, when a pharmacist hands us,
you know, drugs with some clear instructions on that this
(07:55):
is what you're supposed to do, and you take them
in that fashion. This is clearly an individual tragedy. There's
going to be a lot of you know, investigations and hopefully,
you know, we'll learn something out of this terrible tragedy.
But we've you know, it seemed to be a case
in which if we'd had more chemists or more pharmacists
(08:18):
and we have a real shortage of pharmacists and using
an in comparison to the rest of the world, you know,
this is something that might have been able to have
been avoided.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
What do you think, Jordan, your partners a specialized child nurse,
isn't she?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah? Here opinion on that piece was a little bit different.
Is that there's a degree of blame perhaps with the
Picko as well, for not properly showing appearance the right dice,
because she was describing this particular medicine. It looks like
a baraka, it looks at the pearance and being told,
you know, you just put the whole thing in the bottle,
rather than dissolving it and then figuring out precisely how
(08:51):
much and all that.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So you don't give all of it at once to
the baby. You take some.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, I don't know, but it is. It is absolutely tragic.
I think that you know, this is just a place
to call medical misadventure, medical mistake. It's just so traegeric
reading that story that it's you, it's your precious child.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Don't you do this? Don't you do this? Children? You
get a bottle of pamel, right, and it says give
give baby mackay five mills of pamel. And then this
is what the doctors decided based on awake and stuff.
I know, wait eight point six kges. I look on
the side. I go, oh, yep, no, he's got that right.
It matches up with what it says on the side
of the bottle.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Do you not do that?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I do.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
And of course I'm giving very clear instructions from the
other half on all of this stuff. And yeah, I
mean you mentioned earlier check GBT. I've been finding a
lot more on anything medical. You're running it through check
GBT and asking for advice, and I think that something
like this will certainly be There'll be parents out there
(09:50):
like like me who looked at that and thought, I
knew want to be in that situation. Just take a
heartbreaking it.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Totally is guys, Thank you so much, Appreciate it. Craig Reenny,
Jordan Williams a huddle this evening, It's eight away from six.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
Newstalk SETB from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Unique Homes
Uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm the huddle with me this evening. We have Jordan
Williams of the Taxpayers Union and Craig Rennie c Tou
economist Highlands High Team. Jordan, did you know Sir Michael Hill?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
No, I didn't. I'd briefly met him at the Hills
Golf Club, but that was the extent of it. Yeah,
inspiration the way, amazing, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Do you do the same thing he does? Visualize your goals?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I did have a I have a Yeah, I have goals.
I don't know about that, sit down and visualize them everywhere.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
How often do you like, how far out have you
written your goals?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well it changes. You see when you have kids, they
get totally they get totally rewritten and you operate operated
on about a five year rise.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
On you know, he was doing thirty years. That's impressive. Eight.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I turned forty next year and listening I heard thet
rob five interview when I was driving out here, and
it is quite an effort to reinvent yourself at forty totally.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I mean, isn't that that is one of the more
remarkable things about him, isn't it, Craig, that it's forty
years old? He decides, right, I'm finished with being a manager.
I'm going to set up my own business. And then
look where he ended up.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Well, I think it's clearly a testament to his a
and will and as you say, his you know, his
desire to change his life. If he was forecasting his
life thirty years from now. There are plenty of economists
who have terrible track records that guessing what happens next week. No,
I know what happens thirty years from now. I guess
for me a bit like Jordan. I have a six
year old at home, so just getting through the next
(01:34):
day is pretty much my goal right now. But in
terms of Sachel, you know, he clearly has an envyable
track record and he's someone you know who will in
the business community will certainly be missed.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
He kind of Oh, sorry, Jordan's I want to know
what Craig's five year goals?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
What's your five year gold Craig, is it to be for.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
The labor part to say, ah, my five year goal,
frankly is is to still still be working and you
have not disgraced yourself in the meantime.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Minister of Finance, what's your five year gold? Jordan Humble?
Think National Party MP for Tarmaki.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
That's taken. Have you been talking to the other half?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
My other half?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
No, my other half, that's what she she just I
can only stand in taf I if I.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Do, I've heard and so I've heard whispers. There we go,
We're traced it back to the source. Have we lost
the plot, Craig? If we think that kids who are
on working farms can't collect the eggs.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
It depends upon what you mean by a working farm.
There's all that. There's so many variables here that you know,
sort of really simple statements and really kind of naive
views of what it means to work on the farm.
You know, it really isn't helpful where you New Zealand
is a country that has giant health and safety problems
where it were a country that kills seventeen workers a
(02:59):
week as a consequences of their work. We have no
minimum age of work in New zealand And, like most
of the other countries around the world. So at first
blush it may look like we've lost the plot, but
actually there are probably good reasons why we have these regulations.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Could they possibly be? Okay? So let's say, let's say
we'll go natso on this. It's a gigantic poultry farm
full of of like gigantic chicken sheds, and Johnny is
ten years old and Dead's has come with me, Johnny,
Let's go and click digs. Right, Johnny is not allowed
to do that? Why not?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
He's with us dead machinery and chemicals, animals, biosecurity.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Machinery on the toaster, and I've got chemicals under the
laundry sink. They're called like, I just feel.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Like and you're not actively encouraging your chaild to engage
with them, I imagine.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
No.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
But if the parents there, shouldn't they be okay?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
No, because the parent, the parent, the parent may gate.
There's a reason why we do this, and it may
well be the first blush that you think, well, this
is a really crazy reason why. But we we have
we have, we have, we have a terrible health and
safety record in this country, and we actually need to
get better at it. Polking small halls and things fine,
(04:21):
but it's not actually going to shift the needle. Only
of this.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I don't did you grab on a farm, Craig.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
No, godtel hall Field.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
The the.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean the said reality is kids on on quad
bikes on farms. There are a lot of tragic accidents.
I'm not convinced collecting eggs from the from the chicken
coope is causing kids to fall over with the competivector.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I tend to agree with you. What do we
have any rules children around kids on quad bikes?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I don't know, but they're probably widely ignored and that's
probably okay. Yeah, that is part And this is what
the point farmers often make is it's not just the job,
it's actually a lifestyle. And I saw this around firearms
that you get tawnies that think it is absolutely crazy
you have kids with firearms, But that is part of
(05:16):
peace controllers.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
When did you learn to shoot?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I would have been would have been certainly before I
was a teenager.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I loarned. Did you want to hear my story? Do
you want to hear my story? Craig, it's a good yarn. No,
no it's not. No, no, no, no, it's not. I learned
to shoot when I was I reckon, twelve years old.
My dad taught me to shoot rabbits, and the farm
that I learned to shoot on was the farm of
Jenny Clark, mother of Kenyan Clark of Duval fame, because
(05:45):
my dad and Jenny were partners. Is that a good
yar or what? He's basically my stepbrother? Okay, it's amazing.
Has it got that awkward? Has it got that awkward
that we're not saying anything?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
We're all picturing here that it was all them with
a firearm and slightly concerned. We're all your producers.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Not We're all absorbing this, aren't we? We thought I
was the black sheep of the family, but actually not
at all. Let's take a break.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the ones
fun mashed results.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Right, you're back with the huddle, Craig Greennie and Jordan Williams. Jordan,
why don't you just admit why you didn't react at
all to what I told you?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Because immediately I thought you were talking about some.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You didn't know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I know that, of course I knew that they were
now because I following it in the business media. But
I actually thought it was someone. I actually thought it
was someone cool and like popular culture and I think
Craig and I were sitting there thinking we feel we
should know y, whereas I washed that property developers.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Washed up as a kind as a kind describing word.
Right now, Hey, Craig, what do you reckon we do
about I've come this is apropos that the kid being
given the wrong you know, the phosphate at the adult level.
I've come to the conclusion that what you need to
do is except that the pharmacists and the doctors and
everybody's going to make mistakes from time to time because
they're humans, and you just need to check it yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
What do you think.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think it's a really difficult thing. I'm an economist
rather than a pharmacist by trade. The advice that I've
received when I've spoken to doctors and medical professionals and
workers in this area is that your prescriptions vary wildly.
So you know, the prescriptions for some infant medications take
up to two hours to prescribe, because you have to
(07:33):
know the weight of the child, you have to know
the dosage, you have to know a range of other factors.
I think in those sorts of situations it's absolutely fair
to have more than one pharmacist check whether or not
that's you know, it's it's being delivered and we should
be able to trust, you know, when a pharmacist hands us,
you know, drugs with some clear instructions on that this
(07:55):
is what you're supposed to do, and you take them
in that fashion. This is clearly an individual tragedy. There's
going to be a lot of you know, investigations and hopefully,
you know, we'll learn something out of this terrible tragedy.
But we've you know, it seemed to be a case
in which if we'd had more chemists or more pharmacists
(08:18):
and we have a real shortage of pharmacists and using
an in comparison to the rest of the world, you know,
this is something that might have been able to have
been avoided.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
What do you think, Jordan, your partners a specialized child nurse,
isn't she?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah? Here opinion on that piece was a little bit different.
Is that there's a degree of blame perhaps with the
Picko as well, for not properly showing appearance the right dice,
because she was describing this particular medicine. It looks like
a baraka, it looks at the pearance and being told,
you know, you just put the whole thing in the bottle,
rather than dissolving it and then figuring out precisely how
(08:51):
much and all that.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So you don't give all of it at once to
the baby. You take some.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, I don't know, but it is. It is absolutely tragic.
I think that you know, this is just a place
to call medical misadventure, medical mistake. It's just so traegeric
reading that story that it's you, it's your precious child.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Don't you do this? Don't you do this? Children? You
get a bottle of pamel, right, and it says give
give baby mackay five mills of pamel. And then this
is what the doctors decided based on awake and stuff.
I know, wait eight point six kges. I look on
the side. I go, oh, yep, no, he's got that right.
It matches up with what it says on the side
of the bottle.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Do you not do that?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I do.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
And of course I'm giving very clear instructions from the
other half on all of this stuff. And yeah, I
mean you mentioned earlier check GBT. I've been finding a
lot more on anything medical. You're running it through check
GBT and asking for advice, and I think that something
like this will certainly be There'll be parents out there
(09:50):
like like me who looked at that and thought, I
knew want to be in that situation. Just take a
heartbreaking it.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Totally is guys, Thank you so much, Appreciate it. Craig Reenny,
Jordan Williams a huddle this evening, It's eight away from six.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
Newstalk SETB from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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