May 1, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, CTU economist Craig Renney and journalist Clare de Lore joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
David Seymour has made some suggestions about the ministries he would cut down or scrap altogether. What do we think? Do we agree with this idea?
The Greens have unveiled a plan to create 40,000 new 'green jobs' as part of their alternative budget due out in a couple of weeks. Do we support this concept?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty Find you're
one of the kind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Huddle with me this evening, Craig Greenny of the Sea,
to you the economists there and clear the Lord journalist.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hello you two.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello hello, Craig.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
So.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Idea of the day for me is David Seymour pledging
to cut ministries and ministers. Do you like it or
hate it?
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I'm a bit indifferent to it towards to be deadly honest.
Hither it's sort of it doesn't really matter sort of
how many ministers you have. It's basically what they're doing
that should count and what the government's doing over all
that kind. You can have more ministers or fewer ministers's.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Ministries as well.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Craig.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah, again, but you can have more ministries or fewer ministries.
It's actually are they doing what New Zealand needs?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Are they?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Are they delivering the public services that New Zealand needs.
We've had some departments that have been split into others.
We've had in the very recent past, we had the
creation of MB which brought several ministries together. It's it's
actually not a question of how many offices or how
many ministries there are, it's actually are they wor looking
well and are they delivering efficiently? And I think right
(01:03):
now that's an arguable point.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Are you saying, would you argue that they're not delivering efficiently?
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I think there are many ministries that are really suffering
because they've had they've had essentially back rooms and the
the the the engine rooms of those organizations stipped out
of them via cut and so they're really struggling to deliver,
which we've seen, you know, almost arguably in real time
with the delivery of the Family Boost program, which couldn't
be ruled out properly because we had to sort of
(01:32):
you know, put it together with string in order to
get it out as quickly as the government demanded.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Claire, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well? I tend to agree with Craig because I don't
think I think it's got to look at the what
what these ministries are achieving. One of the things that
you do achieve by having portfolios that David Seymour obviously disagrees,
for example racing which is has you know, his political
(02:00):
opponent and coalition partner Winston Peters. Thing is you do
sheet home some political accountability for results in that area.
You may not have a big office or a big administration,
but there is accountability and it does go back to
a very specific minister. I mean you can say that
too about for example, mental health, which we're going to
(02:20):
talk about probably Matt Doucy. Not a good outcome, but
somebody's got to take responsibility. And I do think it's
quite interesting also that at the moment you'd have to
say the ACT Party is disproportionately represented with eight ministers
in our cabinet. When you look at the percentage of
support it's had a lot of It is political. It's
(02:41):
giving people positions because everyone's jockeying for influence within our
MMP governments.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so clear that you saw the Hunting and Fishing
Minister held responsible for anything.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Look, I did not know we had one.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
What about the South Island Minister? What? At what point
are we going to call for James Meagher's resignation as
the South Island Minister? What would he have to do wrong?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, I think what he is he's probably got his
hands for right now because with a bit of luck
he somehow made it to the South Island which seems
under siege.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Mark Mitchell as the Civil Defense minister predominantly dealing with us.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
They can work together nicely and they can cooperate. We
stop all the elements that are needed.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We does this end? Why don't we have a minister
for Otargo, that's.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Part of the South Island, Heather, I don't think, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I mean like it's like it could never end, Like
we could just make ministers for everything, couldn't we.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
You could, And that's what it comes down to. It
is very political. It is trying to satisfy.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I just want both to know you haven't and I
still think that you need to cut a whole bunch
of them, but you have it.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I think. I think one of the things you do
when you create ministries or ministers that aren't normal, regular
everyday ones, like arguably the minister for the South Island,
you're helping to demonstrate to the public what are your priorities. Yeah,
so we had the creation of a chaild poverty minister
for example. We've had, you know, other ministers who.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Creates at what cost? Politics? At some point we have
to stop worrying so much about what the governing policy,
the politics that the governing parties are playing, and think
about what it is literally costing us in tax pay
dollars for them to send us signals. You know, I
don't want to pay for a minister, so they can
send me their priorities.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Just do it?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Is it not only the.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Minister doesn't A minister holding multiple portfolios doesn't have to
actually cost you that much. And you can see that
in other countries where they have just as many people
or as few as we have the diminishing number of
people we have, and they have maybe twenty ministers and
they are managing entire countries with fifteen to twenty ministers.
You can give them all sorts of titles, whatever, but
(05:03):
the responsibilities are shared out amongst very capable people.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I see what you mean. Okay, so you have fewer
bodies wearing more hats. Okay, guys, we'll take a break
and come back just to take the huddle with.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
New Zealand Southeby's international realty achieve extraordinary results with unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
By the way, Claire, what did you make of Chloe
Swarbrick's idea for job of the make work scheme?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Look, the first thing that popped into my head when
I was reading about this, and then listening to was
think big. I mean, it really is a back to
the past kind of you know, it evokes the whole
bilberch eerr of more, you know, picking winners, that sort
of thing, which hasn't actually been bad for New Zealand
in some respects, but in the case of this particular policy,
(05:50):
it is literally half baked at this point because we
don't know how it's going to be funded, and it
seems to me it will possibly render the Greens are
unelectable anyway and not being in a position to implement anything.
I think we really need to push more in the
direction of a better educated, highly educated if we can workforce,
(06:12):
and sort of going more down the Singapore route of
trying to really hann us the brains of a very
well motivated population while also making the most of our
actual resources by way of food production for the world.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I feel, Craig like there will not be much of
a public appetite for making jobs for people basically subsidizing
jobs in the modern era. What do you think.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I don't think they'll be much appetated for just directly
subsidizing employment. But if you're actually building the things that
New Zealand needs, you know, as Chloe said, the Infrastructure
Commission pointed out, we have one hundred and six billion
dollar infrastructure gap and that's just public sector infrastructure gap
right now. So those are hospitals, schools, roads, everything else
(06:55):
that should exist and don't because frankly, we haven't paid
for them. And we do need to build that infrastructure,
and we need to do it better than we do
it right now because we're very poor at building and
if we can find a better means of doing that,
we absolutely should clear but.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
They don't want foreign investment in any of us. And
you know, there was shades of you know, the bricks
that was here take back control sort of quote in
some of the materials that they're released. I mean, I
just don't think we cannot just have a little money
go around in New Zealand. We don't have the money
to fund all of these things. We do need to
(07:33):
encourage them foreign investment.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
By the way, crazy, I think we do need to
encourage crossro Goan No, No, there you go. Okay, I
was going to say, I think we do need to
encourage foreign investment. But many of the things that we
should have been building over the past thirty forty years
would have just been normal Crown investment, and so I
think that's a that's a case where we do need
to catch up. The best example of that is actually
(07:56):
the water infrastructure around New Zealand. So we've got lots
of free waters infrastructure that needs building. Local authorities are
often don't have the capacity of the size to do that.
So if we have a means of helping to grow
that and deliver it and do it more efficiently, that
means lower rate bills for everyone and that's got to
be a benefit to you know, to anyone who owns
it home.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Good on you guys, listen has been lovely to chat
to you. Thank you very much, Craig Rianny Ce to
you Economist and Clear the Lord Journalist.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty Find you're
one of the kind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Huddle with me this evening, Craig Greenny of the Sea,
to you the economists there and clear the Lord journalist.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hello you two.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello hello, Craig.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
So.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Idea of the day for me is David Seymour pledging
to cut ministries and ministers. Do you like it or
hate it?
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I'm a bit indifferent to it towards to be deadly honest.
Hither it's sort of it doesn't really matter sort of
how many ministers you have. It's basically what they're doing
that should count and what the government's doing over all
that kind. You can have more ministers or fewer ministers's.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Ministries as well.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Craig.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah, again, but you can have more ministries or fewer ministries.
It's actually are they doing what New Zealand needs?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Are they?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Are they delivering the public services that New Zealand needs.
We've had some departments that have been split into others.
We've had in the very recent past, we had the
creation of MB which brought several ministries together. It's it's
actually not a question of how many offices or how
many ministries there are, it's actually are they wor looking
well and are they delivering efficiently? And I think right
(01:03):
now that's an arguable point.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Are you saying, would you argue that they're not delivering efficiently?
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I think there are many ministries that are really suffering
because they've had they've had essentially back rooms and the
the the the engine rooms of those organizations stipped out
of them via cut and so they're really struggling to deliver,
which we've seen, you know, almost arguably in real time
with the delivery of the Family Boost program, which couldn't
be ruled out properly because we had to sort of
(01:32):
you know, put it together with string in order to
get it out as quickly as the government demanded.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Claire, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well? I tend to agree with Craig because I don't
think I think it's got to look at the what
what these ministries are achieving. One of the things that
you do achieve by having portfolios that David Seymour obviously disagrees,
for example racing which is has you know, his political
(02:00):
opponent and coalition partner Winston Peters. Thing is you do
sheet home some political accountability for results in that area.
You may not have a big office or a big administration,
but there is accountability and it does go back to
a very specific minister. I mean you can say that
too about for example, mental health, which we're going to
(02:20):
talk about probably Matt Doucy. Not a good outcome, but
somebody's got to take responsibility. And I do think it's
quite interesting also that at the moment you'd have to
say the ACT Party is disproportionately represented with eight ministers
in our cabinet. When you look at the percentage of
support it's had a lot of It is political. It's
(02:41):
giving people positions because everyone's jockeying for influence within our
MMP governments.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so clear that you saw the Hunting and Fishing
Minister held responsible for anything.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Look, I did not know we had one.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
What about the South Island Minister? What? At what point
are we going to call for James Meagher's resignation as
the South Island Minister? What would he have to do wrong?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, I think what he is he's probably got his
hands for right now because with a bit of luck
he somehow made it to the South Island which seems
under siege.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Mark Mitchell as the Civil Defense minister predominantly dealing with us.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
They can work together nicely and they can cooperate. We
stop all the elements that are needed.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We does this end? Why don't we have a minister
for Otargo, that's.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Part of the South Island, Heather, I don't think, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I mean like it's like it could never end, Like
we could just make ministers for everything, couldn't we.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
You could, And that's what it comes down to. It
is very political. It is trying to satisfy.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I just want both to know you haven't and I
still think that you need to cut a whole bunch
of them, but you have it.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I think. I think one of the things you do
when you create ministries or ministers that aren't normal, regular
everyday ones, like arguably the minister for the South Island,
you're helping to demonstrate to the public what are your priorities. Yeah,
so we had the creation of a chaild poverty minister
for example. We've had, you know, other ministers who.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Creates at what cost? Politics? At some point we have
to stop worrying so much about what the governing policy,
the politics that the governing parties are playing, and think
about what it is literally costing us in tax pay
dollars for them to send us signals. You know, I
don't want to pay for a minister, so they can
send me their priorities.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Just do it?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Is it not only the.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Minister doesn't A minister holding multiple portfolios doesn't have to
actually cost you that much. And you can see that
in other countries where they have just as many people
or as few as we have the diminishing number of
people we have, and they have maybe twenty ministers and
they are managing entire countries with fifteen to twenty ministers.
You can give them all sorts of titles, whatever, but
(05:03):
the responsibilities are shared out amongst very capable people.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I see what you mean. Okay, so you have fewer
bodies wearing more hats. Okay, guys, we'll take a break
and come back just to take the huddle with.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
New Zealand Southeby's international realty achieve extraordinary results with unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
By the way, Claire, what did you make of Chloe
Swarbrick's idea for job of the make work scheme?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Look, the first thing that popped into my head when
I was reading about this, and then listening to was
think big. I mean, it really is a back to
the past kind of you know, it evokes the whole
bilberch eerr of more, you know, picking winners, that sort
of thing, which hasn't actually been bad for New Zealand
in some respects, but in the case of this particular policy,
(05:50):
it is literally half baked at this point because we
don't know how it's going to be funded, and it
seems to me it will possibly render the Greens are
unelectable anyway and not being in a position to implement anything.
I think we really need to push more in the
direction of a better educated, highly educated if we can workforce,
(06:12):
and sort of going more down the Singapore route of
trying to really hann us the brains of a very
well motivated population while also making the most of our
actual resources by way of food production for the world.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I feel, Craig like there will not be much of
a public appetite for making jobs for people basically subsidizing
jobs in the modern era. What do you think.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I don't think they'll be much appetated for just directly
subsidizing employment. But if you're actually building the things that
New Zealand needs, you know, as Chloe said, the Infrastructure
Commission pointed out, we have one hundred and six billion
dollar infrastructure gap and that's just public sector infrastructure gap
right now. So those are hospitals, schools, roads, everything else
(06:55):
that should exist and don't because frankly, we haven't paid
for them. And we do need to build that infrastructure,
and we need to do it better than we do
it right now because we're very poor at building and
if we can find a better means of doing that,
we absolutely should clear but.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
They don't want foreign investment in any of us. And
you know, there was shades of you know, the bricks
that was here take back control sort of quote in
some of the materials that they're released. I mean, I
just don't think we cannot just have a little money
go around in New Zealand. We don't have the money
to fund all of these things. We do need to
(07:33):
encourage them foreign investment.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
By the way, crazy, I think we do need to
encourage crossro Goan No, No, there you go. Okay, I
was going to say, I think we do need to
encourage foreign investment. But many of the things that we
should have been building over the past thirty forty years
would have just been normal Crown investment, and so I
think that's a that's a case where we do need
to catch up. The best example of that is actually
(07:56):
the water infrastructure around New Zealand. So we've got lots
of free waters infrastructure that needs building. Local authorities are
often don't have the capacity of the size to do that.
So if we have a means of helping to grow
that and deliver it and do it more efficiently, that
means lower rate bills for everyone and that's got to
be a benefit to you know, to anyone who owns
it home.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Good on you guys, listen has been lovely to chat
to you. Thank you very much, Craig Rianny Ce to
you Economist and Clear the Lord Journalist.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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