July 17, 2025 • 7 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, former Green MP Gareth Hughes and lawyer and political commentator Liam Hehir joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Oranga Tamariki won't publish the reoffending rates of future youth bootcamp participants. Shouldn't we know those rates to know whether the camps are working?
Scientists have warned campylobacter is on the rise, and want warning labels on chicken. What do we make of this?
With all the discussion on rates caps, do we also need to think about a cap for tax rise too?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty Unique Homes
Uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Joining the Huddle tonight Garethe's former Green MP, Hi Gareth
Good to have you on the show and joining us
is Liam Here, lawyer and political commentator. Hey Liam both,
So what do we make of that?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Liam? It was you were really talking at cross purposes
and it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Look, here's my view, My sort of contrary and take
is that you don't have to be sought on a
crime to be skeptical of boot camps. And you know,
I think we should have the numbers because I suspect
the numbers do point to a failure and that family
doesn't mean that we need to be soft on a crime,
but it does mean that we probably need to recognize
that right when social engineering works no better than left
(00:48):
wing social social engineering does. And you know this idea
that you can you can fix people have defective widgets
that can be molded back into being useful members of society.
Who does one need trick that they's just wrong? It's
done right wing populism and it's never worked. So I
don't need to be cynical. I believe that crime should
(01:10):
be followed by punishment. But I don't think there's any
real reason to have any confidence in this particular measure.
In the fact that we don't know the numbers and
then it is aren't going to be given to us
sort of reinforces that skepticism.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm skeptical about not having numbers too, as skeptical as
the next guy. Gareth. Is this about rehabilitating kids or
is this a let's get them off the street because
I'm sick of them stealing my stuff?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Could be a little bit of both, And you know,
this is part of the danger when you sort of
come up with a good idea and opposition that looks
good on a press release and a media launch, but
you've got to follow through. And the government really looks
like in this case, and I agree with Liam on
this point, didn't work last time, doesn't look like it's
working this time from the scant evidence we do have,
So it looks like this is just management of political
(01:54):
optics and hiding it away. The government's coming up with
legislation to bring this in to have even longer periods
of time for these use to be in there. It's
pretty hard to go to effectiveness if it's not going
to release the data. Pretty hard to get long term
consensus and buying across the political aisle if you're not
even going to share the data. So yeah, it doesn't
look good for the government. But the fact of the
(02:15):
matter is we don't want to see use offending full stop,
and we definitely don't want to see youse reoffending full stop.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, well, I'm glad to have with the Paul Fund
and got to that too. GARETHEUS and LIMB here on
the huddle, the huddle.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
With New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the ones for unmashed.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Results on the huddle tonight. GARETHEUS and LIMB here? Guys.
This caampbell A bactor story out today. So it's Michael
Baker and some other scientists warning which our food regulator
is called an alarmist paper, but warning that you'll get
Campbella bacta from chicken in your kitchen and we need
food labeling to stop this from spreading further. Liam, I'm
(02:53):
just not sure I know that chicken. You know you
can get sick from chicken? Who like who doesn't know that?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I mean, we did draw the line in terms of
having to label things and what warnings on things, where
we used to have an expectation that that sort of
common sense knowledge, you know, so it gets transmitted from
one generation to the next. I used to work in
a supermarket and when I was at UNI, and I remember,
no one had to be told that when you were
packing a check in, we had to pack it separate
(03:20):
from everything else. It was just something that we picked
up or we learned from our parents. And you know,
so for me, it's like, oh, yeah, okay, I guess
so he's another warning label. But why are we so
bad at transmitting this information? I mean, Garreth, you used
to works looking burgers, so you know presumably you knew
that too, right, I we didn't have to be told,
you know.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Put me, I worked in a supermarket too, and I
did you know the safety courses and you learn all
about that stuff. I mean, it's pretty surprising. I Mean
what this study shows is since two thousand and eight,
when apparently we had the highest templer back to rate
in the world at the time, but since then Board
and some regulation, we've had nine thousand hospitalizations sixty thousand deaths,
costing one point four billion dollars. So for me, it's
(03:59):
a bit of a wake up. I didn't realize it
was such a massive problem.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
This is the thing. Though we had the food in
New Zealand Food Safety on tonight. It actually it's it's
you know, Michael Baker at EL said sixty deaths. They say,
actually it was only three deaths for people who died
of Compella vector as opposed to just with compeller vector.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Oh no, like COVID.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Exactly exactly who do we trust? I don't know, but
I think the point is, you know, everybody knows putting
a label on chicken is not going to tell us
anything we don't already know.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
You know that, I understand. They're also recommending we introduce
limits on the safe allowable levels of campla vector on
fresh chicken. Look, I'm sure most people cook chicken. Well,
I don't need chicken myself, so it's not a problem
for me. But I've got chickens in the coops, so
I need to make sure I'm cleaning it out more frequently.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Then. Like so, it's not just eating though, it's it's
how you saw it and packet and you know what
you and I don't know. I just I've always felt
that that's the hype of thing that parents meant to
transmit to their children organically, and for some reason we
just don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Gareth, what are you having for dinner tonight? Are you vegan?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I'm not vegan. I'm a vegetarian and my daughter's making enchiladas,
who's a fourteen year old, was in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh fantastic. No, So won't be putting chicken in your
enchiladas tonight?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
No, none for me. But I think people are probably
going to be worried next time they go to the
bakery and buy them to a chicken sandwich.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Hey, the idea of a rates cap for counsels, Liam,
Should we also cap taxes from government while we're at it?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, Look, I love it as a provisional taxpayer, I'd
love that, but it's different. It's fundamentally different, and I
don't think you should just beat up on local government.
They get a lot of stuff that they have to
do and does it'll work from the quite tight limits already.
But Parliament is sovereign, right. Parliament is the sovereign body
that represents everyone in the country. It's got unlimited power.
(05:58):
Whereas Counsel is delegated from from below, so I think
I think Parliament can legitimately tell Counsel to do things
that it doesn't have to do itself. I think that's
that's pretty constitutionally sound.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
How are the other problem of courses, Gareth, is how
do you actually make a cap work? You know, are
you talking about core services? Are you talking about other stuff?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Well, that's just right, and you could end up playing
a game of whack a mole where they just increase
the parking fines and the traffic cameras and all the
other fees and levies they put on. So it's whack
a mole. But it looks like the government doesn't have
the support of even New Zealand First and Act at
the stage to advance this policy. The problem is right,
we've got this broken funding system for local government. That's
the real elephant in the room. And look, I support
(06:40):
ACT in New Zealand First policies to return some GST
to the regions. I think that would be a much
more substantial solution. Then again, this is a policy that
looks good in the headline, but it's going to have
all these downstream.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Problems and get central government paying some rates. That might
be a nice idea too.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive listen live and talks.
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty Unique Homes
Uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Joining the Huddle tonight Garethe's former Green MP, Hi Gareth
Good to have you on the show and joining us
is Liam Here, lawyer and political commentator. Hey Liam both,
So what do we make of that?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Liam? It was you were really talking at cross purposes
and it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Look, here's my view, My sort of contrary and take
is that you don't have to be sought on a
crime to be skeptical of boot camps. And you know,
I think we should have the numbers because I suspect
the numbers do point to a failure and that family
doesn't mean that we need to be soft on a crime,
but it does mean that we probably need to recognize
that right when social engineering works no better than left
(00:48):
wing social social engineering does. And you know this idea
that you can you can fix people have defective widgets
that can be molded back into being useful members of society.
Who does one need trick that they's just wrong? It's
done right wing populism and it's never worked. So I
don't need to be cynical. I believe that crime should
(01:10):
be followed by punishment. But I don't think there's any
real reason to have any confidence in this particular measure.
In the fact that we don't know the numbers and
then it is aren't going to be given to us
sort of reinforces that skepticism.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm skeptical about not having numbers too, as skeptical as
the next guy. Gareth. Is this about rehabilitating kids or
is this a let's get them off the street because
I'm sick of them stealing my stuff?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Could be a little bit of both, And you know,
this is part of the danger when you sort of
come up with a good idea and opposition that looks
good on a press release and a media launch, but
you've got to follow through. And the government really looks
like in this case, and I agree with Liam on
this point, didn't work last time, doesn't look like it's
working this time from the scant evidence we do have,
So it looks like this is just management of political
(01:54):
optics and hiding it away. The government's coming up with
legislation to bring this in to have even longer periods
of time for these use to be in there. It's
pretty hard to go to effectiveness if it's not going
to release the data. Pretty hard to get long term
consensus and buying across the political aisle if you're not
even going to share the data. So yeah, it doesn't
look good for the government. But the fact of the
(02:15):
matter is we don't want to see use offending full stop,
and we definitely don't want to see youse reoffending full stop.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, well, I'm glad to have with the Paul Fund
and got to that too. GARETHEUS and LIMB here on
the huddle, the huddle.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
With New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the ones for unmashed.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Results on the huddle tonight. GARETHEUS and LIMB here? Guys.
This caampbell A bactor story out today. So it's Michael
Baker and some other scientists warning which our food regulator
is called an alarmist paper, but warning that you'll get
Campbella bacta from chicken in your kitchen and we need
food labeling to stop this from spreading further. Liam, I'm
(02:53):
just not sure I know that chicken. You know you
can get sick from chicken? Who like who doesn't know that?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I mean, we did draw the line in terms of
having to label things and what warnings on things, where
we used to have an expectation that that sort of
common sense knowledge, you know, so it gets transmitted from
one generation to the next. I used to work in
a supermarket and when I was at UNI, and I remember,
no one had to be told that when you were
packing a check in, we had to pack it separate
(03:20):
from everything else. It was just something that we picked
up or we learned from our parents. And you know,
so for me, it's like, oh, yeah, okay, I guess
so he's another warning label. But why are we so
bad at transmitting this information? I mean, Garreth, you used
to works looking burgers, so you know presumably you knew
that too, right, I we didn't have to be told,
you know.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Put me, I worked in a supermarket too, and I
did you know the safety courses and you learn all
about that stuff. I mean, it's pretty surprising. I Mean
what this study shows is since two thousand and eight,
when apparently we had the highest templer back to rate
in the world at the time, but since then Board
and some regulation, we've had nine thousand hospitalizations sixty thousand deaths,
costing one point four billion dollars. So for me, it's
(03:59):
a bit of a wake up. I didn't realize it
was such a massive problem.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
This is the thing. Though we had the food in
New Zealand Food Safety on tonight. It actually it's it's
you know, Michael Baker at EL said sixty deaths. They say,
actually it was only three deaths for people who died
of Compella vector as opposed to just with compeller vector.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Oh no, like COVID.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Exactly exactly who do we trust? I don't know, but
I think the point is, you know, everybody knows putting
a label on chicken is not going to tell us
anything we don't already know.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
You know that, I understand. They're also recommending we introduce
limits on the safe allowable levels of campla vector on
fresh chicken. Look, I'm sure most people cook chicken. Well,
I don't need chicken myself, so it's not a problem
for me. But I've got chickens in the coops, so
I need to make sure I'm cleaning it out more frequently.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Then. Like so, it's not just eating though, it's it's
how you saw it and packet and you know what
you and I don't know. I just I've always felt
that that's the hype of thing that parents meant to
transmit to their children organically, and for some reason we
just don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Gareth, what are you having for dinner tonight? Are you vegan?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I'm not vegan. I'm a vegetarian and my daughter's making enchiladas,
who's a fourteen year old, was in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh fantastic. No, So won't be putting chicken in your
enchiladas tonight?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
No, none for me. But I think people are probably
going to be worried next time they go to the
bakery and buy them to a chicken sandwich.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Hey, the idea of a rates cap for counsels, Liam,
Should we also cap taxes from government while we're at it?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, Look, I love it as a provisional taxpayer, I'd
love that, but it's different. It's fundamentally different, and I
don't think you should just beat up on local government.
They get a lot of stuff that they have to
do and does it'll work from the quite tight limits already.
But Parliament is sovereign, right. Parliament is the sovereign body
that represents everyone in the country. It's got unlimited power.
(05:58):
Whereas Counsel is delegated from from below, so I think
I think Parliament can legitimately tell Counsel to do things
that it doesn't have to do itself. I think that's
that's pretty constitutionally sound.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
How are the other problem of courses, Gareth, is how
do you actually make a cap work? You know, are
you talking about core services? Are you talking about other stuff?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Well, that's just right, and you could end up playing
a game of whack a mole where they just increase
the parking fines and the traffic cameras and all the
other fees and levies they put on. So it's whack
a mole. But it looks like the government doesn't have
the support of even New Zealand First and Act at
the stage to advance this policy. The problem is right,
we've got this broken funding system for local government. That's
the real elephant in the room. And look, I support
(06:40):
ACT in New Zealand First policies to return some GST
to the regions. I think that would be a much
more substantial solution. Then again, this is a policy that
looks good in the headline, but it's going to have
all these downstream.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Problems and get central government paying some rates. That might
be a nice idea too.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive listen live and talks.
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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