October 28, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR and Josie Pagani from Child Fund joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
It's the worst-kept secret in politics - Labour officially confirmed it wants to introduce a capital gains tax. Do we support this?
More drama out of Te Pāti Māori - where does this end?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Find your one of a cave.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
With you this evening Joe Spagani, the CEO of Child Fund,
and Trishurston Sharston Willis p Are High you too, Hello, Right,
let's deal with the CGT. Now, I would say, Josie,
it's a vote repellent. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, if you go out and say do you want
a capital gains tax? Of course everyone's going to go no.
I mean, no one likes paying tax. Right. But if
you go out and ask people, do you want to
pay more tax on your income to pay for the
services and the massive deficit that the government's got and
the massive debt and the fact that we're all getting
older and so on and so on and so on. Right,
(00:39):
In other words, if you if you frame the question differently,
which is a more realistic framing, I don't want to
pay more income tax. Do you want people who are
making income from capital gains on property that a tax,
not tax at all at the moment, and it's still income.
Do you want that income to be treated the same
as your wages? Then the answer will probably be yes.
(01:01):
So I do think if you if you're going to
say you don't want a capital gains tax. The point
about tax is that someone has to pay more tax
if you're not going to tax property. That's been the
truth for a long long time. And so that's the
real question, Heather, not do you want a capital gains tax,
but you know, do you want the services that tax
pay for? And if we're going to need more money,
(01:24):
do you want to pay or do you want others
to pay?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, so I'm going to reframe it, Trish, Would you
like to pay a capital gains tax so that we
can pay for really rich people to go to the
doctor three times a year for free?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, no, I absolutely don't. I don't think a case
has been made today for a capital gains tax. And
this isn't the kind of capital gains tax that has
been talked about in the past, which is a way
of sort of rebalancing the tax system. I think there's
a couple of things that stuck out to me. One,
(02:00):
if you take last week's sort of future fund announcement
from Labor that wasn't very well handled. If you take
the fact that this policy was then leaked and it
had to be rushed out today, and then you look
at the policy itself. It's way too complicated, it's confused again,
it's trying to do too many things. I think the
(02:23):
question is heating up around whether or not Chris Hipkins
will retain the leadership heading into the next election. Really,
I absolutely do. I think that these first policy outings
have been bad for Labor. I don't think they'll get
them a boost in the post in the polls, and
(02:43):
I think it probably will raise questions in the party
about whether they should have done the work, not only
the policy work sooner, but the work around whether or
not Chris Hipkins is their best is their best bet.
But I also think again, you know, this is back
to the Labor Party that people got so frustrated with
(03:04):
over six years because it's all about government meddling. So
you've got this very narrow CGT and then you're saying
we're going to ring fence it, and then it goes
over to here to some medic card and then there's
free GP visits. Well, you know Auckland is remember the
Auckland Regional fuel Tax which was supposed to be ring
fenced for Auckland regional infrastructure, and we are not one
(03:28):
meter of road. Further on, having paid that and now
thankfully springs scrap.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And hang on, Josey, everything you're about to say, I
on to hear after the breakdown.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the global
leader and luxury real Estate.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well away from six go Josie.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, one thing I was going to say is I
wish they've made it for free GP visits, because saying
three free GP visits is really really hard. But that's
that's by the bye. Look, whatever you think of Tippy
as the Labor leader, whatever you think of the Labor Party,
this is not some kind of you know, socialist extreme
tax system. I mean, this is that this is a
more conservative version of capital gains tax than just about
(04:07):
every other country has. And I still think if you
if you're going to say no to something as targeted
and small as this, you have to say, how are
you going to answer Treasury who said that in order
to pay our bills, our debt are deficit and the
costs of the fact we're all getting older, we're going
to need retirement. You know, they're suggesting that the options
are we increase the retirement age to seventy two, or
(04:30):
we increase GST to thirty two double its, or you
cut spending. But I don't think there's a I think
you can cut some spending, weathers efficiencies to make but
there's not a lot of fat there, Heather, I mean,
even you know everybody, I think, Joe, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Not we are currently paying for third year university students
to go to university for free because it was a
policy one time. It doesn't even make any sense. There's
heaps like that.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
But there's not heaps of it. I don't think there's
heaps of it. I think in the national part of
national government, the Coalition government have done a job trying
to cut as much as they can. So I don't
think if you asked Nikola Willis today what else can
you cut, she would say, we're pretty we've pretty much
cut all the fat we can. So you've still got
to answer. Do you increase the retirement ATD to a
(05:18):
ridiculous seventy two or GST double it to thirty two percent?
Or do you tax all income the same and give
a break to wage journals and tax those who make
money out of property and don't pay tax on the
capital is you have to make a choice.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So is there anything you want to say before we
move on to something else.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I feel like I'm happy to move on, nor I
think that I do. I do think that argument is
flawed though, because again look at the quantum that this
will raise, and in the scheme of things, it's not
enough to be transformational or address any of those big
(05:59):
structures challenges. Again, it's kind of it's a peanuts under
the cup kind of an exercise, I do think.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So, all right, what do you think, Trisha? I just
want to quick take from ech you what do you
think is going on with Sapati MARII? How does this
thing end? And is that nutritia?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, I mean, who knows where this is going to end?
But I think it is just getting more and more
into an absolute maya of mismanagement. It's not even two
weeks ago that party Mariori leadership fronted up in Parliament
and said, hey, we're having a reset. We've heard everyone
(06:36):
and we're getting on with it. And I was just thinking,
actually it was only last year that we had the
last MP suspended by a party which was Darling Tana
under the Greens. But you know, even even then the
Greens ran a process around that that was public, it
was documented, you knew what the stages of it were,
(06:57):
even though timings ran over. But here you know, the
leadership of Party Maori is absent. They have not set
out a process or a timeline. And also bearing in
mind the fact that this is an electric MP that
they're dealing with. So again it's different from Darling Tana,
who is a listing p. So I think it's just
an absolute mess for to Party Maori and it's a
(07:19):
real shame actually for all of their constituents that that
the party seems to be falling apart at the seams
in this way.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, Josie, I'm coming back to you with somebody's text.
What about we scrap acc Not every country has an acc.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Why would we do that? You want to go back
to period where we've got people who met every time. Yeah,
like every time you arrive in a city in the US,
the massive billboard saying lawyer available you had an accident
at work? Great?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Just well you asked for an idea. I would rather
I'd rather scrape acc than have a CGT. Anyway, listen,
guys will leave it, thank you, So much Joseph Gannatricious
Now Hudle this evening for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Listen live to News Talks it B from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Find your one of a cave.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
With you this evening Joe Spagani, the CEO of Child Fund,
and Trishurston Sharston Willis p Are High you too, Hello, Right,
let's deal with the CGT. Now, I would say, Josie,
it's a vote repellent. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, if you go out and say do you want
a capital gains tax? Of course everyone's going to go no.
I mean, no one likes paying tax. Right. But if
you go out and ask people, do you want to
pay more tax on your income to pay for the
services and the massive deficit that the government's got and
the massive debt and the fact that we're all getting
older and so on and so on and so on. Right,
(00:39):
In other words, if you if you frame the question differently,
which is a more realistic framing, I don't want to
pay more income tax. Do you want people who are
making income from capital gains on property that a tax,
not tax at all at the moment, and it's still income.
Do you want that income to be treated the same
as your wages? Then the answer will probably be yes.
(01:01):
So I do think if you if you're going to
say you don't want a capital gains tax. The point
about tax is that someone has to pay more tax
if you're not going to tax property. That's been the
truth for a long long time. And so that's the
real question, Heather, not do you want a capital gains tax,
but you know, do you want the services that tax
pay for? And if we're going to need more money,
(01:24):
do you want to pay or do you want others
to pay?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, so I'm going to reframe it, Trish, Would you
like to pay a capital gains tax so that we
can pay for really rich people to go to the
doctor three times a year for free?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, no, I absolutely don't. I don't think a case
has been made today for a capital gains tax. And
this isn't the kind of capital gains tax that has
been talked about in the past, which is a way
of sort of rebalancing the tax system. I think there's
a couple of things that stuck out to me. One,
(02:00):
if you take last week's sort of future fund announcement
from Labor that wasn't very well handled. If you take
the fact that this policy was then leaked and it
had to be rushed out today, and then you look
at the policy itself. It's way too complicated, it's confused again,
it's trying to do too many things. I think the
(02:23):
question is heating up around whether or not Chris Hipkins
will retain the leadership heading into the next election. Really,
I absolutely do. I think that these first policy outings
have been bad for Labor. I don't think they'll get
them a boost in the post in the polls, and
(02:43):
I think it probably will raise questions in the party
about whether they should have done the work, not only
the policy work sooner, but the work around whether or
not Chris Hipkins is their best is their best bet.
But I also think again, you know, this is back
to the Labor Party that people got so frustrated with
(03:04):
over six years because it's all about government meddling. So
you've got this very narrow CGT and then you're saying
we're going to ring fence it, and then it goes
over to here to some medic card and then there's
free GP visits. Well, you know Auckland is remember the
Auckland Regional fuel Tax which was supposed to be ring
fenced for Auckland regional infrastructure, and we are not one
(03:28):
meter of road. Further on, having paid that and now
thankfully springs scrap.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And hang on, Josey, everything you're about to say, I
on to hear after the breakdown.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the global
leader and luxury real Estate.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well away from six go Josie.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, one thing I was going to say is I
wish they've made it for free GP visits, because saying
three free GP visits is really really hard. But that's
that's by the bye. Look, whatever you think of Tippy
as the Labor leader, whatever you think of the Labor Party,
this is not some kind of you know, socialist extreme
tax system. I mean, this is that this is a
more conservative version of capital gains tax than just about
(04:07):
every other country has. And I still think if you
if you're going to say no to something as targeted
and small as this, you have to say, how are
you going to answer Treasury who said that in order
to pay our bills, our debt are deficit and the
costs of the fact we're all getting older, we're going
to need retirement. You know, they're suggesting that the options
are we increase the retirement age to seventy two, or
(04:30):
we increase GST to thirty two double its, or you
cut spending. But I don't think there's a I think
you can cut some spending, weathers efficiencies to make but
there's not a lot of fat there, Heather, I mean,
even you know everybody, I think, Joe, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Not we are currently paying for third year university students
to go to university for free because it was a
policy one time. It doesn't even make any sense. There's
heaps like that.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
But there's not heaps of it. I don't think there's
heaps of it. I think in the national part of
national government, the Coalition government have done a job trying
to cut as much as they can. So I don't
think if you asked Nikola Willis today what else can
you cut, she would say, we're pretty we've pretty much
cut all the fat we can. So you've still got
to answer. Do you increase the retirement ATD to a
(05:18):
ridiculous seventy two or GST double it to thirty two percent?
Or do you tax all income the same and give
a break to wage journals and tax those who make
money out of property and don't pay tax on the
capital is you have to make a choice.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So is there anything you want to say before we
move on to something else.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I feel like I'm happy to move on, nor I
think that I do. I do think that argument is
flawed though, because again look at the quantum that this
will raise, and in the scheme of things, it's not
enough to be transformational or address any of those big
(05:59):
structures challenges. Again, it's kind of it's a peanuts under
the cup kind of an exercise, I do think.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So, all right, what do you think, Trisha? I just
want to quick take from ech you what do you
think is going on with Sapati MARII? How does this
thing end? And is that nutritia?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, I mean, who knows where this is going to end?
But I think it is just getting more and more
into an absolute maya of mismanagement. It's not even two
weeks ago that party Mariori leadership fronted up in Parliament
and said, hey, we're having a reset. We've heard everyone
(06:36):
and we're getting on with it. And I was just thinking,
actually it was only last year that we had the
last MP suspended by a party which was Darling Tana
under the Greens. But you know, even even then the
Greens ran a process around that that was public, it
was documented, you knew what the stages of it were,
(06:57):
even though timings ran over. But here you know, the
leadership of Party Maori is absent. They have not set
out a process or a timeline. And also bearing in
mind the fact that this is an electric MP that
they're dealing with. So again it's different from Darling Tana,
who is a listing p. So I think it's just
an absolute mess for to Party Maori and it's a
(07:19):
real shame actually for all of their constituents that that
the party seems to be falling apart at the seams
in this way.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, Josie, I'm coming back to you with somebody's text.
What about we scrap acc Not every country has an acc.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Why would we do that? You want to go back
to period where we've got people who met every time. Yeah,
like every time you arrive in a city in the US,
the massive billboard saying lawyer available you had an accident
at work? Great?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Just well you asked for an idea. I would rather
I'd rather scrape acc than have a CGT. Anyway, listen,
guys will leave it, thank you, So much Joseph Gannatricious
Now Hudle this evening for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Listen live to News Talks it B from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!