September 9, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, former Green MP Gareth Hughes and Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
There's talk of a documentary about the Tom Phillips saga in the works - do we think this is a bad idea? In fact, for the sake of the kids, do we need to stop running images of them in the media?
The Advertising Standards Authority has criticised Turners for showing an advertisement depicting burnout, claiming it condones a dangerous and illegal activity. Do we see a problem with the ad?
Are we going to see the Jacinda documentary?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of the Kind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
On the Hundle of Us. This evening we have Gareth
Hugh's director of the Well Being Economy Alliance out at All,
former Green MP of course, and Jordan Williams Taxpayers Union
Hire you too, Hello Gareth thoughts on the documentary.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Oh look, if you are making a documentary to raise
profile while these kids were still stuck in the bush
with their father, I think that's probably a good thing
to do. But now they've been found safe, you know,
I think their right to privacy is probably the most
important thing, so that we won't be able to control
the netflixes or the Disney channels of the world. I
understand why there's interested in making a story, but look,
(00:39):
I hope New Zealand's not making a story which is
all about trying to you know, just sell tickets basically,
will sensationalize. What I prefer is the kids, you know,
just we're able to get on with your life.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yeah, Jordan, I agree. I think that, especially as things
have unfolded that in a care you know, even when
assuming suppression is lifted on this one, Daud, I just
I think it's it's just it's awful. Why would you
go there? It might have been started with the best
of intentions, and I'm sure that someone's going to be
(01:11):
seriously out of pocket, but actually, whr key is you
know there's not in the public interest?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, do you think I mean, Gareth, do you think
it is possible for us to kind of back off
as a society and let them kind of get on
with it as much as possible and not remind them
of what they've gone through?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I hope so. And you know, I've worked a lot
with people in the media in New Zealand and I've
got a lot of time for them. There's a lot
of really good people doing the work here in New Zealand.
So look, I've got confidence and in a lot of
the New Zealand media, less so the international ones. Obviously,
you know, this has gone at international attention and I
can easily imagine, you know, documentary being made on one
(01:48):
of the big channels. But look, my message to the
media is like, please diffect them the children's inter us
rather than chasing dollars.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah you know what, Jordan, I'll tell you. What I'm
surprised by is the ongoing support and I'm getting it
even now on the text, ongoing support for Tom Phillips,
as if he's some sort of a good guy doing
the right thing by his kids.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Well, that's what suppression does I mean. And it's not
a sign of weakness. It's actually the sign of an
organization with a healthy dynamic. There's quite see on the
board of the Free Speech Union, and there is a
healthy debate going on between the lawyers, both the advisory
board and on the board about the role of suppression.
(02:29):
And I'm not going to, you know, obviously break any
of that, but of course in the vacuum you do
get misperceptions that are that arise. I mustn't met on
this one. I'm really quite torn. But it's notwithstanding the
view on the documentary, I don't think we should gouge
on it. I do think that it is pretty outrageous
(02:53):
that was very clearly such a significant case. You have
lawyers saying we can know that you can't, as particularly
led by a law who's on the board of our
state broadcaster. I consider that just actually.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That is such an interesting point. Do you think I meant?
Is it getting weirdly conflicted for Linda Clarke to be
injuncting the media when she is the board member.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Of the first time, not for the you know, I mean,
should they active for McK skimmings? And I mean, how
do you.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's right superinjunction to protect to prevent us from knowing
anything about you, And it was a super injunction.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
You couldn't it was illegal to even that really drove
me up the wall that you that, as a free
speech advocate you couldn't even tell people and injunction existed
because that was And I'd love to know how common
that is in New Zealand. But as I say, reason
why it's different on cases. But media should be pretty
pure on this. I mean, at the ends of May
(03:47):
are actually pretty good on it. But to have a
board member being being continually in court arguing for secrecy,
I think is just such a grace.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Now are you on the side of turners? Are you?
Or are you on the side of old mate who
complained about the burnout?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, as a sort of former boy racer from Gisborne
who used to drove a low car with mag wheels,
I'm probably on the other side of the argument. Look,
I mean there's probably more important things to be talking
about in the state of the world today. But look,
this was a one second clip of the burnout and
a pretty funny, lighthearted video. But ultimately, you know, this
wasn't a decision to me. This was a decision for
(04:28):
the advertising.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And they clearly have Gareth, what kind of car did
you drive?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I had a Mark one Ford Escort.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Oh what color?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Beautiful red?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Did you do burnouts?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I didn't. Actually, I'm such a cheapskate, you know. I'd
rather keep the rubber of my expensive tires on the
car the road.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
This is not at all what I expected from you.
I'm going to take a break. I want to know
what you think when we come back. Jordan sixteen away from.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Six the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the
global leader and luxury real Estate.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right, you're back of the huddle, Gareth Hughes and Jordan
Williams gone. Then, Jordan, what do you think of the
Turner's ad?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I think the Advertising Standards authority is quite out of touch.
You know, how can it be? What is literally New
Zealand's favorite advertising character is offensive to the reasonable person
or clearly not. The other interesting thing is is it
was a YouTube ad only, which resembling means that it's
been quite targeted at a younger you know, the people
(05:27):
that you know that the nature of some experience in marketing,
the nature of a good marketing spend as you're reaching
the right person. So the ad would be targeting the
younger demographic for which that ad would work, and you
get these ASA fogures. I appreciate it's industry lead, but
in my experience with the ASA, they are frankly out
of touch. They're pretty politicized, as I say, and having
(05:50):
had clients put in front of them, and I just
think that this was just yet another one.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, and have you got any secret boy racer history
you need to disclose here?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Ah, not that willing to describe to the country. I
had a prime error at the Senate when I was
at high school, and I was pretty proud of it
with my paid for with my McDonald's job.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh did you have a McDonald's. I had a McDonald's job,
but I didn't.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I didn't. I think you'd be more McCafe, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
No, I love to drive through because there was an
efficiency that you needed, you needed.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I think your other panelist might have had some experience,
didn't you.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Gareth, We've discussed this you.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I've been arrested a dresses Ronald McDonald infamously. But on
my fifteenth birthday I got my driver's license, so I
in the first place, I went with the McDonald's drive through.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes, but of course you did because McDonald's is always
a lovely treat when you make bad decisions as a
young person. Now, Gareth, do you think that MPs should
be able to hold because there's once again we're having
this debate about whether mp should be able to hold
shares or should force should be forced to divest. What
do you think?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Oh, I think it's the voting or regulating or involved
in making decisions on something. They've got a direct if
your interest, Yeah, they should divest it. We've got rules
for ministers, and I agree with the professor from way Kadow,
Professor McCauley, who's suggesting why don't we broaden it out
to MPs as well. Look, I think the bigger issue
(07:13):
that's sort of what the pecuniary interests of our politicians discloses,
just how many of them are invested in housing. I
think it tells you so much about the state of
our economy or which has been described as an economy, sorry,
a housing market with a bit of an economy tagged on.
Where you know, people in power are interesting their money,
And I think the second thing we need to be
(07:34):
really focusing on as well as the donations that go
to politicians. I don't think politicians should be receiving donations
when they're directly regulating the very interest or industry donating
the money.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Dan, I heard let's go for you wants text by
funding of political parties. No, I'm pretty suspicious of looking
for interests, but I do think in this instance is
the risk of jumping at shadows. A regulatory decision by
the minister is a bit different than sort of voting
on general legislation, and it seems that even the sort
(08:08):
of most remote interest has now jumped upon. So basically
the argument is we only want losers, sorry, people that
either don't have significant investments or are willing to really
take the heed or give them up as themes of parliament. Look,
we all know here that the caliber of people putting
themselves forward to public office is significantly decreased over time,
(08:35):
and a big reason that it's cited. Is this sort
of thing I not, as I say. On the other hand,
the public is right to be suspicious. Heck, I run
the taxpayers Union. You know, we point out conflicts all
the time, but there is there is a difference between
something very minor and remote and actually a real conflict.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But we do have a real issue right which is
public trust is dropping two thirds of key. We think
the economy is rigged for the rich and powerful. This
has an impact on how people trust politicians. And look
at politicians put there. You know, she is in a
blind trust while they're there for you know, three sects
or whatever many years. It's not a bigger position for
what should be the greater public interest?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Are you garis going to go and see the Justinda documentary.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Oh of course she was a great prime minister.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh no, stop it, no, no, don't do that. You're
doing that on purpose. You're doing that on purpose, giving it.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
A great tragic I would go to a documentary about
Arnold Nordemayer. I'd love New Zealand politics and we'll always
see it. Look, I think she was one of the
better prime ministers we've had in recent years. She wasn't
she didn't do everything right, and from my perspective, it
wasn't a progressively transformation.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Oh no, that's garth.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I'm going to hang up on military.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well no, Lord, imagine if she was more progressively transformational. Lord, Jordan,
are you going to go see it?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
You know, I'm sure inted Me has an employee assistance
program if you'll.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Run get my three counseling sessions and use them up
on talking about justinder. It's not a bad idea. Actually, anyway,
do you want to go see it with me, Jordan,
because we can console each other.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
For me?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Oh do you think so?
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Yeah? Yeah, problem I don't.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Think Yeah, I won't understand anything.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, thank you, I'm told which one? Didn't you? Down?
To the movies? Out on to.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
A bit of time?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, thanks very much. Guys appreciate it. Jordan Williams, Gareth Hughes.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty find your
one of the Kind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
On the Hundle of Us. This evening we have Gareth
Hugh's director of the Well Being Economy Alliance out at All,
former Green MP of course, and Jordan Williams Taxpayers Union
Hire you too, Hello Gareth thoughts on the documentary.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Oh look, if you are making a documentary to raise
profile while these kids were still stuck in the bush
with their father, I think that's probably a good thing
to do. But now they've been found safe, you know,
I think their right to privacy is probably the most
important thing, so that we won't be able to control
the netflixes or the Disney channels of the world. I
understand why there's interested in making a story, but look,
(00:39):
I hope New Zealand's not making a story which is
all about trying to you know, just sell tickets basically,
will sensationalize. What I prefer is the kids, you know,
just we're able to get on with your life.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yeah, Jordan, I agree. I think that, especially as things
have unfolded that in a care you know, even when
assuming suppression is lifted on this one, Daud, I just
I think it's it's just it's awful. Why would you
go there? It might have been started with the best
of intentions, and I'm sure that someone's going to be
(01:11):
seriously out of pocket, but actually, whr key is you
know there's not in the public interest?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, do you think I mean, Gareth, do you think
it is possible for us to kind of back off
as a society and let them kind of get on
with it as much as possible and not remind them
of what they've gone through?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I hope so. And you know, I've worked a lot
with people in the media in New Zealand and I've
got a lot of time for them. There's a lot
of really good people doing the work here in New Zealand.
So look, I've got confidence and in a lot of
the New Zealand media, less so the international ones. Obviously,
you know, this has gone at international attention and I
can easily imagine, you know, documentary being made on one
(01:48):
of the big channels. But look, my message to the
media is like, please diffect them the children's inter us
rather than chasing dollars.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah you know what, Jordan, I'll tell you. What I'm
surprised by is the ongoing support and I'm getting it
even now on the text, ongoing support for Tom Phillips,
as if he's some sort of a good guy doing
the right thing by his kids.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Well, that's what suppression does I mean. And it's not
a sign of weakness. It's actually the sign of an
organization with a healthy dynamic. There's quite see on the
board of the Free Speech Union, and there is a
healthy debate going on between the lawyers, both the advisory
board and on the board about the role of suppression.
(02:29):
And I'm not going to, you know, obviously break any
of that, but of course in the vacuum you do
get misperceptions that are that arise. I mustn't met on
this one. I'm really quite torn. But it's notwithstanding the
view on the documentary, I don't think we should gouge
on it. I do think that it is pretty outrageous
(02:53):
that was very clearly such a significant case. You have
lawyers saying we can know that you can't, as particularly
led by a law who's on the board of our
state broadcaster. I consider that just actually.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That is such an interesting point. Do you think I meant?
Is it getting weirdly conflicted for Linda Clarke to be
injuncting the media when she is the board member.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Of the first time, not for the you know, I mean,
should they active for McK skimmings? And I mean, how
do you.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's right superinjunction to protect to prevent us from knowing
anything about you, And it was a super injunction.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
You couldn't it was illegal to even that really drove
me up the wall that you that, as a free
speech advocate you couldn't even tell people and injunction existed
because that was And I'd love to know how common
that is in New Zealand. But as I say, reason
why it's different on cases. But media should be pretty
pure on this. I mean, at the ends of May
(03:47):
are actually pretty good on it. But to have a
board member being being continually in court arguing for secrecy,
I think is just such a grace.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Now are you on the side of turners? Are you?
Or are you on the side of old mate who
complained about the burnout?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, as a sort of former boy racer from Gisborne
who used to drove a low car with mag wheels,
I'm probably on the other side of the argument. Look,
I mean there's probably more important things to be talking
about in the state of the world today. But look,
this was a one second clip of the burnout and
a pretty funny, lighthearted video. But ultimately, you know, this
wasn't a decision to me. This was a decision for
(04:28):
the advertising.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And they clearly have Gareth, what kind of car did
you drive?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I had a Mark one Ford Escort.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Oh what color?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Beautiful red?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Did you do burnouts?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I didn't. Actually, I'm such a cheapskate, you know. I'd
rather keep the rubber of my expensive tires on the
car the road.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
This is not at all what I expected from you.
I'm going to take a break. I want to know
what you think when we come back. Jordan sixteen away from.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Six the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the
global leader and luxury real Estate.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right, you're back of the huddle, Gareth Hughes and Jordan
Williams gone. Then, Jordan, what do you think of the
Turner's ad?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I think the Advertising Standards authority is quite out of touch.
You know, how can it be? What is literally New
Zealand's favorite advertising character is offensive to the reasonable person
or clearly not. The other interesting thing is is it
was a YouTube ad only, which resembling means that it's
been quite targeted at a younger you know, the people
(05:27):
that you know that the nature of some experience in marketing,
the nature of a good marketing spend as you're reaching
the right person. So the ad would be targeting the
younger demographic for which that ad would work, and you
get these ASA fogures. I appreciate it's industry lead, but
in my experience with the ASA, they are frankly out
of touch. They're pretty politicized, as I say, and having
(05:50):
had clients put in front of them, and I just
think that this was just yet another one.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, and have you got any secret boy racer history
you need to disclose here?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Ah, not that willing to describe to the country. I
had a prime error at the Senate when I was
at high school, and I was pretty proud of it
with my paid for with my McDonald's job.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh did you have a McDonald's. I had a McDonald's job,
but I didn't.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I didn't. I think you'd be more McCafe, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
No, I love to drive through because there was an
efficiency that you needed, you needed.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I think your other panelist might have had some experience,
didn't you.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Gareth, We've discussed this you.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I've been arrested a dresses Ronald McDonald infamously. But on
my fifteenth birthday I got my driver's license, so I
in the first place, I went with the McDonald's drive through.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes, but of course you did because McDonald's is always
a lovely treat when you make bad decisions as a
young person. Now, Gareth, do you think that MPs should
be able to hold because there's once again we're having
this debate about whether mp should be able to hold
shares or should force should be forced to divest. What
do you think?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Oh, I think it's the voting or regulating or involved
in making decisions on something. They've got a direct if
your interest, Yeah, they should divest it. We've got rules
for ministers, and I agree with the professor from way Kadow,
Professor McCauley, who's suggesting why don't we broaden it out
to MPs as well. Look, I think the bigger issue
(07:13):
that's sort of what the pecuniary interests of our politicians discloses,
just how many of them are invested in housing. I
think it tells you so much about the state of
our economy or which has been described as an economy, sorry,
a housing market with a bit of an economy tagged on.
Where you know, people in power are interesting their money,
And I think the second thing we need to be
(07:34):
really focusing on as well as the donations that go
to politicians. I don't think politicians should be receiving donations
when they're directly regulating the very interest or industry donating
the money.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Dan, I heard let's go for you wants text by
funding of political parties. No, I'm pretty suspicious of looking
for interests, but I do think in this instance is
the risk of jumping at shadows. A regulatory decision by
the minister is a bit different than sort of voting
on general legislation, and it seems that even the sort
(08:08):
of most remote interest has now jumped upon. So basically
the argument is we only want losers, sorry, people that
either don't have significant investments or are willing to really
take the heed or give them up as themes of parliament. Look,
we all know here that the caliber of people putting
themselves forward to public office is significantly decreased over time,
(08:35):
and a big reason that it's cited. Is this sort
of thing I not, as I say. On the other hand,
the public is right to be suspicious. Heck, I run
the taxpayers Union. You know, we point out conflicts all
the time, but there is there is a difference between
something very minor and remote and actually a real conflict.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But we do have a real issue right which is
public trust is dropping two thirds of key. We think
the economy is rigged for the rich and powerful. This
has an impact on how people trust politicians. And look
at politicians put there. You know, she is in a
blind trust while they're there for you know, three sects
or whatever many years. It's not a bigger position for
what should be the greater public interest?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Are you garis going to go and see the Justinda documentary.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Oh of course she was a great prime minister.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh no, stop it, no, no, don't do that. You're
doing that on purpose. You're doing that on purpose, giving it.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
A great tragic I would go to a documentary about
Arnold Nordemayer. I'd love New Zealand politics and we'll always
see it. Look, I think she was one of the
better prime ministers we've had in recent years. She wasn't
she didn't do everything right, and from my perspective, it
wasn't a progressively transformation.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Oh no, that's garth.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I'm going to hang up on military.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well no, Lord, imagine if she was more progressively transformational. Lord, Jordan,
are you going to go see it?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
You know, I'm sure inted Me has an employee assistance
program if you'll.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Run get my three counseling sessions and use them up
on talking about justinder. It's not a bad idea. Actually, anyway,
do you want to go see it with me, Jordan,
because we can console each other.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
For me?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Oh do you think so?
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Yeah? Yeah, problem I don't.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Think Yeah, I won't understand anything.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, thank you, I'm told which one? Didn't you? Down?
To the movies? Out on to.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
A bit of time?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, thanks very much. Guys appreciate it. Jordan Williams, Gareth Hughes.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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