October 14, 2024 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR and Josie Pagani from Child Fund joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
ASB's CEO is advocating for more taxes in New Zealand to pay for the infrastructure deficits. This comes after ANZ's Antonia Watson advocated for a capital gains tax. Can we find a better solution?
It's been one year since the latest election - how do we feel about the new Government one year in? Are we doing the same, better, or worse?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no other.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On the Huddle, Trish Sharson of Sherston willis PR. Joe
Spagani of Child Fund, Hi are you guys? Hello?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Hello Trish?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Why do you think these ladies of the banks are
so keen on the tax?
Speaker 4 (00:16):
I don't know the reason for speaking up on the tax,
but the one thing that I do back them both
on is that we do need business New Zealand, business
leaders in New Zealand who do speak up on things
that they you know, they have a point of view on,
so just want their opinions exactly, and in fact, you
know the government is saying that to business leaders, we
(00:38):
want you to have an opinion. So so that's my
view on that. But I absolutely agree with Robin Oliver
when it comes to the fact that we cannot tax
our way to success in New Zealand. And in fact,
in my view, discussions around tax have become punitive and
as a sort of bludgeon to success and we need
(01:00):
to turn that around. And if taxing our way to
success was the right way to do things in New
Zealand would be absolutely ripping and.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
We are not.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
And I further to that, I think that a lot
of New Zealanders have actually lost faith in value for
money in terms of the taxes they are paying, because
look at the state of things.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I agree with you, Jose, what do you think.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Yeah, if you go back to A and Z's Antonio Watson,
what she was advocating for a capital gains tax. So
I think what they're not saying, you know, tax the
country to hell, and that will be how you get
prosperity and growth. And I listened to your interview with
Robin Oliver, and he's saying, don't tax it. You know,
we won't have surgeons and doctors and teachers and nurses
and so on if.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We don't grow, and he's absolutely right.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
But I think what they're saying, these two bank chief
executives is you need a tax switch because at the moment,
you've got about forty five percent of our tax revenue
is coming from tax of people who work for wages.
It's levied on work, and thirty one percent is coming
off spending on GST. So so you know that's most
(02:07):
of us and what and that's really out of kilter
with the rest of the world where there's there's a
much better balance between taxing the non productive sector, i e.
Houses that just sit there and do nothing and don't
create any jobs and don't do anything. So they're saying
capital gains tax. Taxing on the games makes sense rather
than taxing on all the innovators and the wealth makers
(02:29):
of tomorrow who are still climbing up the hill.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Perfect even no, no, no, no, Josie. Because what we need
in this country, which is winni capital, which is why
both Winnie Pee and David Cymore is saying we've got
to get foreign capital. Then you don't then tax the
very thing that you're trying to get into the country,
thereby creating a disincentive.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah, but this is about taxing things that don't make
any money at all, So we're not it's not about
taxing stuff that invests in businesses and invests in innovations.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
About youxing the dead doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Make business and there's a gain, there's a capital gains tax.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Yeah. And also people who are buying lots and lots
of houses, which we know that speculation around housing has
been a thing, and that's just sort of money that's
not feeding into the productive sector. So I do think
we need and you're right, Trish, let business leaders have
a say and have an opinion about this. I think
you have to accept that there is we are out
of kilter with the rest of the world, where we
(03:24):
tax people who earn wages far more, and the people
earning wages today are the capital makers and the wealth
makers of tomorrow. What we're saying is that the people
at the top of the hill, we've already made all
their money.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And good on them for doing it. We're saying they don't.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Have to pay any tax. We'll just tax everybody else
who's coming up the hill. But they're the wealth. They're
the wealthy of tomorrow. See, you know, you've got to
get a better balance in the tax system.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, I mean, I don't agree.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I think one of the great examples currently is the
small and medium business owners who have been hit with
the increase in the tax rate on trusts.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And you know that they.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Are people who are working really hard, and that's a
tax of up at forty percent. So I don't agree.
It's not it's not as simple as that. But I
also I do think that overwhelmingly it's also about a
signal to New Zealand and where we want to head
and that we do want to start celebrating success. And
(04:29):
I just don't think that.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
I don't think this is but I don't think this
is about you know, putting a down or on success.
What we're actually saying is we need some kind of
tax switch. So you're right, small to medium businesses, we
need to support them in every way we can. So
let's reduce taxes in other places. Let's reduce income tax
for a start. So you've got to look at the
whole tax system and go because it's not just about
(04:54):
creating realm, and that's also about taxing the right stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I don't live in that world, right then, no one's
going to give us a text switch, but they're not
going to give us a tax swhich they are just
going to increase their revenue and government.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
But we've done it before her that we did it,
John Key did it with GST, cut income tax and
put up GST.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So absolutely when the.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Different situation, I mean, which we're kind of broke at
the moment, we're very broke. Yeah, So anyway, listen, we'll
take a break, come back and talk about how the
government's doing one year and and also after six o'clock
with Nickoli Willis, we are going to talk about getting
the foreign capitalist.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, elevate the
marketing of your home right.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
You're back with the Huddle, Joe Speghanni and Tricious and Josie.
What do you think about this government a year and
how they're tracking.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Well, we're clearly feeling very ill, aren't we. We're not
very tigger. We're pretty miserable. So you can't necessarily blame
the government on that. But look at what I think
they've got right, is they've got the diagnosis right of
what's gone wrong, so cost blowouts, we're not delivering. We
haven't been building stuff. We've got to make that faster.
We've got to make that easier. What they lack and
(06:01):
why those polls are not looking good for national They
lack a sort of big plan. And the thing about
a plan is that you don't expect a government to
fix everything in the first year, but you do want
to believe that they will. And there's a wonderful quote
from the former German Chancellor Helmet Schmidt who once said
politicians with a vision should go and.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
See a doctor. What they need is a plan.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
And the thing about a plan is, you know, it's
a map for what you're going to do. It identifies destination,
you can see the milestones and most importantly, you can.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
See the priorities.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
So without a plan, I think they've got a bit derailed.
Where you know, the biggest noise that comes along, which
has been treaty issues, and really I don't think we
were worried about any of the race issues until this
suddenly became a huge, big issue. It kind of throws
them off balance and they end up talking, you know,
forever about treaty principles and all of this, and that's
(06:54):
not what they want to be doing. So that's the problem.
You get led around by the nose if you haven't
got a clear plan. I think that's what they lack.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
What do you think for It's exactly what came out
in mood of the boardroom recently. Everybody said we want
to see the plan for growth. I think here's my
little dipstick on where we are right now as a country.
And what sparked this was a conversation I had with
someone who owns a small business in Russell over the weekend.
I was saying, oh, you know, as you do Goundtown
or how's things going, and she said, look, right now,
(07:25):
people can't afford a day trip. So you get people
on a Sunday that'd go from fung Ray to Russell.
It's an hour, spend a day there, buy some fish
and chips. So my quick assessment is, right now we're
a country that can't afford a Sunday day trip.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
We're broke.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Our bright young things are leaving New Zealand, and record
numbers the things we trust to look after us, like
the health system, are broken. And the bright spot is
we're campaigning to be the best country in the world
to have her peace. That was expected to rest wishes
but actually just on a serious idea, just can't you
know that? It made me laugh when I saw that campaign.
(08:02):
But I think the hard thing for the government is
that for people who have lost their businesses in the
past four years and who are still losing their businesses,
that is a decade long or multi generational problem for
those families. And if you just look at some numbers
(08:23):
in disposable income per capita is down six point two
percent compared to September twenty twenty two. Now, how much
is that in twenty twenty four dollars, a four person
household is over sixteen hundred dollars a month worse off
than two years ago. That is a huge amount of money. So, yes,
(08:43):
I think the government's ticking things off. Yes, I think
are they're working quickly, and we all feel better that
they are in But New Zealanders, I think, are in
a harder place than a lot have been in a generation.
So there is a very long way back, but way
back is through growth. And I was really pleased to
see the foreign capital stuff over the weekend because New
(09:04):
Zealand is absolutely parched and we need foreign capital desperately
to get things going again.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
You you, an.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Idea of another quick dipstick is the way the government
has cut a lot of staff in the public sector,
so cut costs great. I understand that, But then again,
where's the big idea about how you actually fix the
public sector which hasn't been able to deliver even on
former government plans either. So what's gone wrong? What's causing
(09:33):
the group think, what's causing the inability for the.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Public sector to be better at delivery and.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Get things done fast, and I think that, you know,
it's a really good little microcosm of what's gone wrong.
You can cut things, yes, but you've still got to
do a diagnostic about what is why is the public
sector not delivering and what does it need to do that.
You know, maybe it's separating policy develop development from delivery
of stuff because if you don't have the government, right,
(09:59):
if you don't have government departments, right, Yeah, that's that's
who delivers the governments.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
You make a good point. Cutting is not transformation, and
what we need is transformation.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Quick outside view though, which is a bright spot. Someone
who works with me who's immigrated to New Zealand this year,
he said, other countries would kill for the kind of
businesslike focus government we've got at the moment. He said,
look at the UK. We'll look at the keir starmagull
like less than two months and they are rudderless and
in absolute shambles.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
He said, look at the US.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So I think it's good to balance the out the
inside view with the outside.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I have a little bit of a little bit of
a glasshouf for there. Guys. Thank you. I really appreciate
the power of you coming on to chat to me
as always on a Monday, Joe Spagani trishas in our huddle.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no other.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On the Huddle, Trish Sharson of Sherston willis PR. Joe
Spagani of Child Fund, Hi are you guys? Hello?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Hello Trish?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Why do you think these ladies of the banks are
so keen on the tax?
Speaker 4 (00:16):
I don't know the reason for speaking up on the tax,
but the one thing that I do back them both
on is that we do need business New Zealand, business
leaders in New Zealand who do speak up on things
that they you know, they have a point of view on,
so just want their opinions exactly, and in fact, you
know the government is saying that to business leaders, we
(00:38):
want you to have an opinion. So so that's my
view on that. But I absolutely agree with Robin Oliver
when it comes to the fact that we cannot tax
our way to success in New Zealand. And in fact,
in my view, discussions around tax have become punitive and
as a sort of bludgeon to success and we need
(01:00):
to turn that around. And if taxing our way to
success was the right way to do things in New
Zealand would be absolutely ripping and.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
We are not.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
And I further to that, I think that a lot
of New Zealanders have actually lost faith in value for
money in terms of the taxes they are paying, because
look at the state of things.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I agree with you, Jose, what do you think.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Yeah, if you go back to A and Z's Antonio Watson,
what she was advocating for a capital gains tax. So
I think what they're not saying, you know, tax the
country to hell, and that will be how you get
prosperity and growth. And I listened to your interview with
Robin Oliver, and he's saying, don't tax it. You know,
we won't have surgeons and doctors and teachers and nurses
and so on if.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We don't grow, and he's absolutely right.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
But I think what they're saying, these two bank chief
executives is you need a tax switch because at the moment,
you've got about forty five percent of our tax revenue
is coming from tax of people who work for wages.
It's levied on work, and thirty one percent is coming
off spending on GST. So so you know that's most
(02:07):
of us and what and that's really out of kilter
with the rest of the world where there's there's a
much better balance between taxing the non productive sector, i e.
Houses that just sit there and do nothing and don't
create any jobs and don't do anything. So they're saying
capital gains tax. Taxing on the games makes sense rather
than taxing on all the innovators and the wealth makers
(02:29):
of tomorrow who are still climbing up the hill.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Perfect even no, no, no, no, Josie. Because what we need
in this country, which is winni capital, which is why
both Winnie Pee and David Cymore is saying we've got
to get foreign capital. Then you don't then tax the
very thing that you're trying to get into the country,
thereby creating a disincentive.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah, but this is about taxing things that don't make
any money at all, So we're not it's not about
taxing stuff that invests in businesses and invests in innovations.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
About youxing the dead doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Make business and there's a gain, there's a capital gains tax.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Yeah. And also people who are buying lots and lots
of houses, which we know that speculation around housing has
been a thing, and that's just sort of money that's
not feeding into the productive sector. So I do think
we need and you're right, Trish, let business leaders have
a say and have an opinion about this. I think
you have to accept that there is we are out
of kilter with the rest of the world, where we
(03:24):
tax people who earn wages far more, and the people
earning wages today are the capital makers and the wealth
makers of tomorrow. What we're saying is that the people
at the top of the hill, we've already made all
their money.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And good on them for doing it. We're saying they don't.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Have to pay any tax. We'll just tax everybody else
who's coming up the hill. But they're the wealth. They're
the wealthy of tomorrow. See, you know, you've got to
get a better balance in the tax system.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, I mean, I don't agree.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I think one of the great examples currently is the
small and medium business owners who have been hit with
the increase in the tax rate on trusts.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And you know that they.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Are people who are working really hard, and that's a
tax of up at forty percent. So I don't agree.
It's not it's not as simple as that. But I
also I do think that overwhelmingly it's also about a
signal to New Zealand and where we want to head
and that we do want to start celebrating success. And
(04:29):
I just don't think that.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
I don't think this is but I don't think this
is about you know, putting a down or on success.
What we're actually saying is we need some kind of
tax switch. So you're right, small to medium businesses, we
need to support them in every way we can. So
let's reduce taxes in other places. Let's reduce income tax
for a start. So you've got to look at the
whole tax system and go because it's not just about
(04:54):
creating realm, and that's also about taxing the right stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I don't live in that world, right then, no one's
going to give us a text switch, but they're not
going to give us a tax swhich they are just
going to increase their revenue and government.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
But we've done it before her that we did it,
John Key did it with GST, cut income tax and
put up GST.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So absolutely when the.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Different situation, I mean, which we're kind of broke at
the moment, we're very broke. Yeah, So anyway, listen, we'll
take a break, come back and talk about how the
government's doing one year and and also after six o'clock
with Nickoli Willis, we are going to talk about getting
the foreign capitalist.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, elevate the
marketing of your home right.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
You're back with the Huddle, Joe Speghanni and Tricious and Josie.
What do you think about this government a year and
how they're tracking.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Well, we're clearly feeling very ill, aren't we. We're not
very tigger. We're pretty miserable. So you can't necessarily blame
the government on that. But look at what I think
they've got right, is they've got the diagnosis right of
what's gone wrong, so cost blowouts, we're not delivering. We
haven't been building stuff. We've got to make that faster.
We've got to make that easier. What they lack and
(06:01):
why those polls are not looking good for national They
lack a sort of big plan. And the thing about
a plan is that you don't expect a government to
fix everything in the first year, but you do want
to believe that they will. And there's a wonderful quote
from the former German Chancellor Helmet Schmidt who once said
politicians with a vision should go and.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
See a doctor. What they need is a plan.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
And the thing about a plan is, you know, it's
a map for what you're going to do. It identifies destination,
you can see the milestones and most importantly, you can.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
See the priorities.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
So without a plan, I think they've got a bit derailed.
Where you know, the biggest noise that comes along, which
has been treaty issues, and really I don't think we
were worried about any of the race issues until this
suddenly became a huge, big issue. It kind of throws
them off balance and they end up talking, you know,
forever about treaty principles and all of this, and that's
(06:54):
not what they want to be doing. So that's the problem.
You get led around by the nose if you haven't
got a clear plan. I think that's what they lack.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
What do you think for It's exactly what came out
in mood of the boardroom recently. Everybody said we want
to see the plan for growth. I think here's my
little dipstick on where we are right now as a country.
And what sparked this was a conversation I had with
someone who owns a small business in Russell over the weekend.
I was saying, oh, you know, as you do Goundtown
or how's things going, and she said, look, right now,
(07:25):
people can't afford a day trip. So you get people
on a Sunday that'd go from fung Ray to Russell.
It's an hour, spend a day there, buy some fish
and chips. So my quick assessment is, right now we're
a country that can't afford a Sunday day trip.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
We're broke.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Our bright young things are leaving New Zealand, and record
numbers the things we trust to look after us, like
the health system, are broken. And the bright spot is
we're campaigning to be the best country in the world
to have her peace. That was expected to rest wishes
but actually just on a serious idea, just can't you
know that? It made me laugh when I saw that campaign.
(08:02):
But I think the hard thing for the government is
that for people who have lost their businesses in the
past four years and who are still losing their businesses,
that is a decade long or multi generational problem for
those families. And if you just look at some numbers
(08:23):
in disposable income per capita is down six point two
percent compared to September twenty twenty two. Now, how much
is that in twenty twenty four dollars, a four person
household is over sixteen hundred dollars a month worse off
than two years ago. That is a huge amount of money. So, yes,
(08:43):
I think the government's ticking things off. Yes, I think
are they're working quickly, and we all feel better that
they are in But New Zealanders, I think, are in
a harder place than a lot have been in a generation.
So there is a very long way back, but way
back is through growth. And I was really pleased to
see the foreign capital stuff over the weekend because New
(09:04):
Zealand is absolutely parched and we need foreign capital desperately
to get things going again.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
You you, an.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Idea of another quick dipstick is the way the government
has cut a lot of staff in the public sector,
so cut costs great. I understand that, But then again,
where's the big idea about how you actually fix the
public sector which hasn't been able to deliver even on
former government plans either. So what's gone wrong? What's causing
(09:33):
the group think, what's causing the inability for the.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Public sector to be better at delivery and.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Get things done fast, and I think that, you know,
it's a really good little microcosm of what's gone wrong.
You can cut things, yes, but you've still got to
do a diagnostic about what is why is the public
sector not delivering and what does it need to do that.
You know, maybe it's separating policy develop development from delivery
of stuff because if you don't have the government, right,
(09:59):
if you don't have government departments, right, Yeah, that's that's
who delivers the governments.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
You make a good point. Cutting is not transformation, and
what we need is transformation.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Quick outside view though, which is a bright spot. Someone
who works with me who's immigrated to New Zealand this year,
he said, other countries would kill for the kind of
businesslike focus government we've got at the moment. He said,
look at the UK. We'll look at the keir starmagull
like less than two months and they are rudderless and
in absolute shambles.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
He said, look at the US.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So I think it's good to balance the out the
inside view with the outside.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I have a little bit of a little bit of
a glasshouf for there. Guys. Thank you. I really appreciate
the power of you coming on to chat to me
as always on a Monday, Joe Spagani trishas in our huddle.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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