November 18, 2024 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, broadcaster Mark Sainsbury and Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Thousands are expected to join the hīkoi protesting the Treaty Principles Bill arriving in Wellington tomorrow. This follows a war of the words between David Seymour and Jenny Shipley, as well as Chris Finlayson. Has this whole thing gone too far?
Should the police consider a different strategy when negotiating with Tom Phillips? Locals think the police need to try something new after three years of appeals, searches and rewards. What do we make of this?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle of with me this evening. Trisherson of
Sherston willis pr Mark Sainsbury Broadcaster. Hello are you too?
Hello Heather saying, so.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
How's it going?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You good? And you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I thought you two would be down here on the heckoy.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm going to go along and going to have a look?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Are you going to? Are you going to look? Or
are you going to be wearing your red blacks and
white and you're actually going to join the heckoy?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, no, it's funny.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We're having a bit of a discussion about that as
to I'm going down to heaven you sort of. I'm
not a sort of a full time journalist. I always
thought it was inappropriate to get involved in any political
activity if you're a working journalist. I just don't think
it's it doesn't work, you know. Yes, I think it's
a big but it's a bit I'm going to sort
of a slightly different situation. But I've got quite a
(00:47):
bit of sympathy for the for the heckory. Yeah, luck
me in with Dane, Jenny and and and the others.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
What don't you like about the treaty?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Probably? I thought, look, I just think the whole thing.
It's it's unnecessary and divisit Why is my issue? Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I mean I think there's a good there was a
good point made over the weekend. I mean, it wouldn't
have happened under John keyes watch. You know, he would
have been too smart for that, because right from the
start you had Luxon saying, look, I don't support this,
We're not going to vote past the second reading.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
But they cocked all the damage. In any case, you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Know, this is such a rookie move from the nets.
It's unreal. What do you think, Trish about these journals
going out? And and the important thing about these journals
and editorial staff. We are talking about people who work
for ring ZED and TV and Z the two state
owned broadcaster is one of them funded by the state,
both of which say that they are neutral and unbiased.
(01:44):
That's really important, it is.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
But I think from an employment perspective, it's very difficult
for those organizations to say in your private time, you
can't you don't have the right to protest like anyone else.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I mean posting it on social media. They probably need
to have quite clear guidelines about that, don't they, so
they can ping these guys when they do.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
It well, even then I think that's difficult. I mean,
my view about it is that it comes down to
the individual journalist at their view. I think it's interesting,
as Mark just said, you know, there have been a
lot of journalists along the way who just were very
careful around this kind of stuff. But times have changed.
(02:26):
But I do think that what we have seen over
the weekend is a continuation of what's become a very
unedifying debate around the whole issue of the Treaty Principals Bill.
And you know, I've had to eat my hat on
the show recently for bad predictions, but this is one
I have got right from the start. I said, well,
(02:47):
David Seymour might want a high minded, intellectual discussion around this.
This was never going to be the way that it
rolled down. I actually agree with Chris Finlayson's his sort
of line and length on this and his commentary around it.
I think we're right, and it does make me sort
of again feel concern for the political leadership we have
(03:11):
at the moment trying to deal with this. You know,
on the one hand, you've got act and at the
other end of the spectrum you've got to Party Maori
and they are really operating on around this issue in
a way that is illustrative of where we've got to
in the social media.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Guy coming from I don't want to use the word
extreme because then it makes it sound like that it
sort of deplatforms them to some extent. But they're coming
from the far ends of the discussion.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
They are. And it's interesting that at the time Active
brought this Treaty Principles Bill to Parliament, you've got, you know,
these kind of mirrors on the spectrum like it.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So it's sort of the.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Right time to have to Party Maori and in a
funny way to kick against this from Act. Just think
back in history though, and I think this is interesting
that where this is between National Act and I was
thinking about it, Mike. You might remember better than me,
but you know, back in the sort of ninety six
ninety seven when Act first came to Parliament, one of
the first things that Act put up was time limits
(04:13):
on treaty settlements. Big who are at the time, but
National adopted it and got on with it and a
lot of the settlements were done because of that. This
time around from National they are going absolutely nowhere near this,
and I think it's the right thing to do. And actually,
when I was this morning listening to Hoskins Show and
I heard the interview with Seymour and I heard his
(04:36):
comment about Jenny Shipley, and I actually thought it did
David a real disservice. You know, if he wants to
encourage a thoughtful debate around this, you play the You
don't play the man, You play the ball. And I
just don't think this whole thing is taking us any further.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Oh guess as so were you going to say something there?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Look, the thing I've just been thinking about through all
this heabit is you look at Doug Graham under Bulger
huge gains in treaty settlements, same with Chrisphins and under
Key National and this is contrary to the DNA.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I mean, it's arguable that.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The massive moves on treaty settlements may well have sort
of costume Bulger's job at the time. But the thing
is they actually have quite a proud history in terms
of the adealans of MARI and trying to settle the treaties.
And that's why I totally understand where both Jennyship and
Chrisphinson are coming from that damages especially the party's relationship
(05:33):
to Mari.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But you see, the thing is, this is not about
treaty settlements, right, So this is about this is about
this is not about what any government of any color
has done. This is about what the courts have done
with treaty principles, and that is where the resistance is.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, yeah, no, no, I'm just saying you're talking about
the relationship.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
In the past, that the relationship in some ways had
been a commendable one because of the work they've done there,
We've now moved into this sort of whether how are
you putting the treaty principle, whether they go under law
or not. But what I'm saying is it's sort of
there's any good will that's sort of said.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Which is remarkable a trish because the Nets, the Gnats
clearly thought that they could put this in an arm's
length and they are stuffing this up so badly. They
are wearing this.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
They are wearing it. And when I saw the email
coming from the National Party on Thursday night, Thursday night,
and I thought it's that old thing. It was such
a long email from Paul Goldsmith explaining the position of
you know, why we're supporting it now, but we won't
support it then. And you know too many things.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Explaining is losing, Explaining is losing.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I think you know that this six months selectrimittee process
is going to be bad for everybody. There is no
winners out of this process because it takes us to
a dead end and all of the emotion and and we.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Are going to end up feeling so angry at the
end of this and nothing will have changed.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And yeah, so the Nets, I mean, I'm shocked at
how stupid the Nets have been on this. But anyway,
what can you do? Hey saying? So listen, tell me,
what do you think should the cops consider a different
strategy with that dad who's taking his kids bush?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
They can consider a different strategy, But there's no way
you can offer someone an amnesty. You can why not say, look,
you can kidnap your kids, go off rob a bank
and look, we'll well, we'll just forget about it.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You do, though, how do you get him out those sayings?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Though?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Because he ain't going to come out with those kids
if he's going to be chucked in Jael and lose
custody all together, which w it's already happened.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Really, Yeah, but it's going to say a pretty dangerous
precedent if you say, you know, we'll start letting you
off things if you sort of decide to look, it's
the big problem there is he's obviously getting help. That's
that's that's the biggest issue in those poor kids. What
sort of And it's interesting reading even if he's a
you know, even if they catch him, they're then going
(07:55):
to somehow try and keep the relationship going with the kids,
because that's all I've known for the last three years.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, what do you think, tu, Well, yeah, I think
there's a hard line on this. I mean, you could
argue anything in the name of love. And if we have.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
A hard line, he stays in the bush well and
those kids stay without an education in their own peers.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, but you I totally agree with Mark on this.
This is a guy who's kidnapped his own kids. And
I come at this from the perspective of a mother.
If these were my kids and a dad had and
the dad had taken my kids off for what three years, Yeah,
I would say get him out and whatever happens to
him is on his heads. But I want my kids back.
(08:36):
And I actually think if you were the mum in
this situation, which is what sort of I think about
late at night, I don't know how you'd still be
holding together. You would be absolutely beside yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, okay. And I think it's actually quite complicated. I
think there's a lot we don't know because the family court,
and hopefully in time we will get a little bit
more out of this.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
For more from Heather Duplassy Ellen Drive, listen live to
News Talks it Be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
On the huddle of with me this evening. Trisherson of
Sherston willis pr Mark Sainsbury Broadcaster. Hello are you too?
Hello Heather saying, so.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
How's it going?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You good? And you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I thought you two would be down here on the heckoy.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm going to go along and going to have a look?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Are you going to? Are you going to look? Or
are you going to be wearing your red blacks and
white and you're actually going to join the heckoy?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, no, it's funny.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We're having a bit of a discussion about that as
to I'm going down to heaven you sort of. I'm
not a sort of a full time journalist. I always
thought it was inappropriate to get involved in any political
activity if you're a working journalist. I just don't think
it's it doesn't work, you know. Yes, I think it's
a big but it's a bit I'm going to sort
of a slightly different situation. But I've got quite a
(00:47):
bit of sympathy for the for the heckory. Yeah, luck
me in with Dane, Jenny and and and the others.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
What don't you like about the treaty?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Probably? I thought, look, I just think the whole thing.
It's it's unnecessary and divisit Why is my issue? Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I mean I think there's a good there was a
good point made over the weekend. I mean, it wouldn't
have happened under John keyes watch. You know, he would
have been too smart for that, because right from the
start you had Luxon saying, look, I don't support this,
We're not going to vote past the second reading.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
But they cocked all the damage. In any case, you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Know, this is such a rookie move from the nets.
It's unreal. What do you think, Trish about these journals
going out? And and the important thing about these journals
and editorial staff. We are talking about people who work
for ring ZED and TV and Z the two state
owned broadcaster is one of them funded by the state,
both of which say that they are neutral and unbiased.
(01:44):
That's really important, it is.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
But I think from an employment perspective, it's very difficult
for those organizations to say in your private time, you
can't you don't have the right to protest like anyone else.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I mean posting it on social media. They probably need
to have quite clear guidelines about that, don't they, so
they can ping these guys when they do.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
It well, even then I think that's difficult. I mean,
my view about it is that it comes down to
the individual journalist at their view. I think it's interesting,
as Mark just said, you know, there have been a
lot of journalists along the way who just were very
careful around this kind of stuff. But times have changed.
(02:26):
But I do think that what we have seen over
the weekend is a continuation of what's become a very
unedifying debate around the whole issue of the Treaty Principals Bill.
And you know, I've had to eat my hat on
the show recently for bad predictions, but this is one
I have got right from the start. I said, well,
(02:47):
David Seymour might want a high minded, intellectual discussion around this.
This was never going to be the way that it
rolled down. I actually agree with Chris Finlayson's his sort
of line and length on this and his commentary around it.
I think we're right, and it does make me sort
of again feel concern for the political leadership we have
(03:11):
at the moment trying to deal with this. You know,
on the one hand, you've got act and at the
other end of the spectrum you've got to Party Maori
and they are really operating on around this issue in
a way that is illustrative of where we've got to
in the social media.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Guy coming from I don't want to use the word
extreme because then it makes it sound like that it
sort of deplatforms them to some extent. But they're coming
from the far ends of the discussion.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
They are. And it's interesting that at the time Active
brought this Treaty Principles Bill to Parliament, you've got, you know,
these kind of mirrors on the spectrum like it.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So it's sort of the.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Right time to have to Party Maori and in a
funny way to kick against this from Act. Just think
back in history though, and I think this is interesting
that where this is between National Act and I was
thinking about it, Mike. You might remember better than me,
but you know, back in the sort of ninety six
ninety seven when Act first came to Parliament, one of
the first things that Act put up was time limits
(04:13):
on treaty settlements. Big who are at the time, but
National adopted it and got on with it and a
lot of the settlements were done because of that. This
time around from National they are going absolutely nowhere near this,
and I think it's the right thing to do. And actually,
when I was this morning listening to Hoskins Show and
I heard the interview with Seymour and I heard his
(04:36):
comment about Jenny Shipley, and I actually thought it did
David a real disservice. You know, if he wants to
encourage a thoughtful debate around this, you play the You
don't play the man, You play the ball. And I
just don't think this whole thing is taking us any further.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Oh guess as so were you going to say something there?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Look, the thing I've just been thinking about through all
this heabit is you look at Doug Graham under Bulger
huge gains in treaty settlements, same with Chrisphins and under
Key National and this is contrary to the DNA.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I mean, it's arguable that.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The massive moves on treaty settlements may well have sort
of costume Bulger's job at the time. But the thing
is they actually have quite a proud history in terms
of the adealans of MARI and trying to settle the treaties.
And that's why I totally understand where both Jennyship and
Chrisphinson are coming from that damages especially the party's relationship
(05:33):
to Mari.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But you see, the thing is, this is not about
treaty settlements, right, So this is about this is about
this is not about what any government of any color
has done. This is about what the courts have done
with treaty principles, and that is where the resistance is.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, yeah, no, no, I'm just saying you're talking about
the relationship.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
In the past, that the relationship in some ways had
been a commendable one because of the work they've done there,
We've now moved into this sort of whether how are
you putting the treaty principle, whether they go under law
or not. But what I'm saying is it's sort of
there's any good will that's sort of said.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Which is remarkable a trish because the Nets, the Gnats
clearly thought that they could put this in an arm's
length and they are stuffing this up so badly. They
are wearing this.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
They are wearing it. And when I saw the email
coming from the National Party on Thursday night, Thursday night,
and I thought it's that old thing. It was such
a long email from Paul Goldsmith explaining the position of
you know, why we're supporting it now, but we won't
support it then. And you know too many things.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Explaining is losing, Explaining is losing.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I think you know that this six months selectrimittee process
is going to be bad for everybody. There is no
winners out of this process because it takes us to
a dead end and all of the emotion and and we.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Are going to end up feeling so angry at the
end of this and nothing will have changed.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And yeah, so the Nets, I mean, I'm shocked at
how stupid the Nets have been on this. But anyway,
what can you do? Hey saying? So listen, tell me,
what do you think should the cops consider a different
strategy with that dad who's taking his kids bush?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
They can consider a different strategy, But there's no way
you can offer someone an amnesty. You can why not say, look,
you can kidnap your kids, go off rob a bank
and look, we'll well, we'll just forget about it.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You do, though, how do you get him out those sayings?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Though?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Because he ain't going to come out with those kids
if he's going to be chucked in Jael and lose
custody all together, which w it's already happened.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Really, Yeah, but it's going to say a pretty dangerous
precedent if you say, you know, we'll start letting you
off things if you sort of decide to look, it's
the big problem there is he's obviously getting help. That's
that's that's the biggest issue in those poor kids. What
sort of And it's interesting reading even if he's a
you know, even if they catch him, they're then going
(07:55):
to somehow try and keep the relationship going with the kids,
because that's all I've known for the last three years.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, what do you think, tu, Well, yeah, I think
there's a hard line on this. I mean, you could
argue anything in the name of love. And if we have.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
A hard line, he stays in the bush well and
those kids stay without an education in their own peers.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, but you I totally agree with Mark on this.
This is a guy who's kidnapped his own kids. And
I come at this from the perspective of a mother.
If these were my kids and a dad had and
the dad had taken my kids off for what three years, Yeah,
I would say get him out and whatever happens to
him is on his heads. But I want my kids back.
(08:36):
And I actually think if you were the mum in
this situation, which is what sort of I think about
late at night, I don't know how you'd still be
holding together. You would be absolutely beside yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, okay. And I think it's actually quite complicated. I
think there's a lot we don't know because the family court,
and hopefully in time we will get a little bit
more out of this.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
For more from Heather Duplassy Ellen Drive, listen live to
News Talks it Be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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