November 4, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, former Green MP Gareth Hughes and Phil O'Reilly from Iron Duke Partners joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
A museum in Christchurch has raised some concerns over an attempt to depict 'both sides' of World War II. How do we feel about this?
Erica Stanford has moved to take Treaty obligations off school boards, prompting outrage from teachers. Should we be outraged at this development?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle with me this evening we have Gareth Hughes,
director of the Well Being Economy Alliance ALTIRO, and former
Green MP and Fullo Riley Iron Duke partners Hire. You too, Garet,
Well a filter answer your question on very well. Thank you, Gareth.
How do you feel about that display?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, the only Nazi flag I want to see in
a museum is one captured by New Zealand troops as
part of our mission to stamp out Nazism. Look, I
love history, I'm a peace neck, but I also loved
visiting military museums when I'm around the world, and a
couple of years ago I accently visited the Military Museum
by Yasukuni Shrine and Tokyo, and I was walking around
(00:37):
and had this really odd feeling that something was off
there because in this museum you kind of felt out
that Japan was the total victim and it was innocent
in World War Two. And I think walking around this
museum in Geraldine you might get the same vibes. I
don't know why people want to dress up like the
bad guys, the waften ss, and we shouldn't be glorifying
the stuff. Sure show it that provide the context.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I agree with that. I've been in many museums around
the world where German military equipment or uniforms are displayed
and that durally not the WAFF and it says to
be fair, but you know, it's explained that this is
what they were trying to do and here's what was
going on. And so I think if you're going to
do it in a place by Jording, you definitely they
want the Nazi flags and god knows what which you
would all that sort of symbolism. If you are going
(01:21):
to do it, have a uniform there or something and
explain the evil characters that these guys were. But they
shouldn't be doing it anyway, mate. They should. They should.
This is Jordan. They should stop doing that and move on.
And I just think it's pretty tasteless stuff, all right now.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Gareth, how do you feel about Eric to stan for
taking the treaty obligations out of the education legislation.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I'm really surprised because I thought the government was
laser focused on costs of living, but it seems to
be they're focusing on things like this, and you know,
it's strange in the middle of the massive curriculum review
that lots of teachers and parents are complaining about the
process and the terrible proposals. I don't know why she's
picking another fight. And she's got the school Board Association, Principals, Federation,
(02:03):
Teachers Union, Educational Institute all coming out immediately saying they're
pretty shocked.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And when I live on two different planets, do you
think do you think most parents support the unions over
Erica Stanford?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, no, it's not just the unions, it's a school
board association. There's are parents, you know, volunteering their time
for their side.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Which side of the No, No, I'm not, I'm not
trying to be smart to you, Gareth. Which side do
you reckonparents are on? Genuinely?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, I think there's probably, if I'm honest, a bit
of a generational shift and what I'm seeing, And you know,
I was part of that largest protests in our country's history,
where what one hundred thousand people came out in the
streets to support TTVD, reflecting a much much wider population. Look,
a lot of people want to see the treaty actually
play a bigger role in our society. They see what's
(02:54):
happening as a sign of division and spoking and spoking
that division in society, happy with the treaty as a parent,
and I know there are heaps like me otherwise.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Look Erica stands done exactly the right thing here. The
reality is the Crown, the Government of New Zealand, is
the department to the Treaty of Whiting, as the Minister says,
And this endless sprinkling of treaty obligations throughout our country
so that everybody seems to have to live with, you know,
is required to comply with the treaty. It's not only,
(03:26):
you know, just illogical given the fact that the Crown's
the partner here, but it also puts them in an
impossible position. As you know, the Treaty of Whiting is
the subject of heated debate and changed by the courts
and changes and interpretation. How volunteer school boards supposed to
comply with all of that, it's an impossibility. What I
(03:47):
think they're focusing on properly, and what the Minister is
asking to focus on properly is please make sure that
everything you do tries to reduce the inequity between the
achievement of marriage students and the achievement of other students,
and that's entirely appropriate exactly what skill Board should be doing.
And I think that that is in fact in compliance
with the crowns obligation regard to the tweety white thing.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
All right, okay, guys, we're going to take a break.
I want to know what you think about this rough
sleeper news that's dropped today. Right, you're back with the huddle,
Fellow Riley, Gareth Hughes, now Phil Labors drop the fact
that they believe that the government is going to introduce
a ban on rough sleepers and cities. How do you
feel about this?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I support the ban, but what are you going to
do with them? So the rough sleepers would become a
real issue, not just in New Zealand but also in
many cities around the world. And there's no question they
contribute to a feeling that the whole idea contributes to
a feeling of a lack of security, a lack of safety.
It can be quite confronting for people to have to
(04:44):
have to see all that and to be part of it.
So I agree with the idea that something should be
done about them, but you can't just say their band,
what are they going to do. Where are they going
to go? So you need to, I think, have a
wrap around service that says, we're not going to let
you sleep rough, but here's what we are going to do.
We're we're going to put you into some sort of
transitional accommodation or something like that, because often it's the
lack of that transitional accommodation or those kinds of wrap
(05:05):
around services that lead to the rough sleeping. Not always
some are rough sleeping, so they can beg let's be
clear about that, they're not all sort of necessarily if
people with no choice, sometimes they do with the choices.
But broadly speaking, banning them is not the only answer.
We should make sure they move somewhere more conducive to
(05:26):
their success.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I'd imagine, Gareth that at least at the outset,
if you do something like this, many of them will
be spending the night in jail.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Or wide are out of the city into the suburbs.
And I agree with fifty percent of what Phil said.
You know, we need to come up with comprehensive solutions
to the problem. If we're just banning it and moving
the problem elsewhere, you know, that's the definition of the
bottom of the cliff. Thinking where people are drifting down
the river a little bit further at the bottom of
the cliff reminds me in Wales they were handing out
(05:55):
stab proof sleeping bag coats. You know, this was not
the solution of the rough sleeping problem. It's giving people
houses and I get that it's really uncomfortable in a
lot of our city centers. It's sad for me as
a parent that my teen daughter doesn't feel safe walking
around downtown Wellington. But the answer is a self fair.
We've just got to get affordable housing. I know, unemployments
(06:17):
at a nine year high. It's not normal that we
have so much rough sleeping in this country. We didn't
used to have it, and it's a result of concrete policies.
But we can change those policies.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's kind of probably quite normal nowadays, isn't it, though.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Cares it's sad. I'm not that old, but I still
remember a country where it just wasn't normal with one
person in Gisbel and where I grew up.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It happens in lots of cities and lots of countries,
and it's a wider issue than just you know, complaining
about how new Zealand's got poor policies, but it is
about making sure that there is something for them to do. Otherwise,
to Goa's point though, what are you going to do?
What are they going to do? Turn up a new limb?
I mean, you know, so you need to have some
sort of opportunity to possible though phell.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
That if you take them out of the city center,
the it's action to rough sleeping for some of them.
Some of them will fade, right because at least some
of the attraction is being there where the buzzers and
everybody else's and you're doing your drugs and you're you're
getting boozed. If you get pushed out to Newlan, it's
not nearly as fun if you're on your tod and
the bus stop.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I think that's right. In other words, you can't say
that all rough sleepers are there if you like, because
there's nowhere else them to go, right. But so that's right.
But I think there's enough of that as certainly as
I walk around walk from CBD and want you can
see we didn't see them. Certainly, some of them are
desperate souls and we need to help them. So I
think it's a you can be cynical either way about this.
(07:37):
This is a dreadful thing the government's doing. That they're
rough sleeping, that's not quite true. And that all of
them are just rough sleeping because they can they can
beg and do drugs. That's not true. Yeah, there's a
middle ground here.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
How are you stressed out, Gareth about the Chinese ambassador
sending letters to MPs?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I wouldn't say stressed out, but it does seem to
be an increasing pattern and I think we should be
concerned about it because look, government, be it China or
Russia or the US, should be interfering our politics. I
actually agree with that TMP Laura McClure who said, you know,
in New Zealand, where parliament sovereign and our democracy, MPs
are free to exercise their judgment. I'm not happy that
(08:16):
the Chinese Embassy is sending a lot of criticisms of
late everything from from this is a visit to Taiwan
through to other things like the documentaries being screened, how
we operate customs. Yeah, we don't do it to them
and they shouldn't be doing it to us.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yes, Phil.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
People can send letters to MPs for all sorts of reasons.
So I've got no problem with Chinese ambassador's us inbassadors
you know, the Westmere Bowling Club or they had to
send the letter through. I take not much interest in
it other than to say, other than to say, the
MP should read that letter, should should take it for
what it's worth, and then I think properly ignore it
(08:55):
and get on, you know, doing what they need to do.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, fair point. Hey, listen, thank you very much for
you too, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Go well.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That is Gareth Hughs and follow Raleiah Hudle this evening
for more.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
From Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
On the huddle with me this evening we have Gareth Hughes,
director of the Well Being Economy Alliance ALTIRO, and former
Green MP and Fullo Riley Iron Duke partners Hire. You too, Garet,
Well a filter answer your question on very well. Thank you, Gareth.
How do you feel about that display?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, the only Nazi flag I want to see in
a museum is one captured by New Zealand troops as
part of our mission to stamp out Nazism. Look, I
love history, I'm a peace neck, but I also loved
visiting military museums when I'm around the world, and a
couple of years ago I accently visited the Military Museum
by Yasukuni Shrine and Tokyo, and I was walking around
(00:37):
and had this really odd feeling that something was off
there because in this museum you kind of felt out
that Japan was the total victim and it was innocent
in World War Two. And I think walking around this
museum in Geraldine you might get the same vibes. I
don't know why people want to dress up like the
bad guys, the waften ss, and we shouldn't be glorifying
the stuff. Sure show it that provide the context.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I agree with that. I've been in many museums around
the world where German military equipment or uniforms are displayed
and that durally not the WAFF and it says to
be fair, but you know, it's explained that this is
what they were trying to do and here's what was
going on. And so I think if you're going to
do it in a place by Jording, you definitely they
want the Nazi flags and god knows what which you
would all that sort of symbolism. If you are going
(01:21):
to do it, have a uniform there or something and
explain the evil characters that these guys were. But they
shouldn't be doing it anyway, mate. They should. They should.
This is Jordan. They should stop doing that and move on.
And I just think it's pretty tasteless stuff, all right now.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Gareth, how do you feel about Eric to stan for
taking the treaty obligations out of the education legislation.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I'm really surprised because I thought the government was
laser focused on costs of living, but it seems to
be they're focusing on things like this, and you know,
it's strange in the middle of the massive curriculum review
that lots of teachers and parents are complaining about the
process and the terrible proposals. I don't know why she's
picking another fight. And she's got the school Board Association, Principals, Federation,
(02:03):
Teachers Union, Educational Institute all coming out immediately saying they're
pretty shocked.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And when I live on two different planets, do you
think do you think most parents support the unions over
Erica Stanford?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, no, it's not just the unions, it's a school
board association. There's are parents, you know, volunteering their time
for their side.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Which side of the No, No, I'm not, I'm not
trying to be smart to you, Gareth. Which side do
you reckonparents are on? Genuinely?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, I think there's probably, if I'm honest, a bit
of a generational shift and what I'm seeing, And you know,
I was part of that largest protests in our country's history,
where what one hundred thousand people came out in the
streets to support TTVD, reflecting a much much wider population. Look,
a lot of people want to see the treaty actually
play a bigger role in our society. They see what's
(02:54):
happening as a sign of division and spoking and spoking
that division in society, happy with the treaty as a parent,
and I know there are heaps like me otherwise.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Look Erica stands done exactly the right thing here. The
reality is the Crown, the Government of New Zealand, is
the department to the Treaty of Whiting, as the Minister says,
And this endless sprinkling of treaty obligations throughout our country
so that everybody seems to have to live with, you know,
is required to comply with the treaty. It's not only,
(03:26):
you know, just illogical given the fact that the Crown's
the partner here, but it also puts them in an
impossible position. As you know, the Treaty of Whiting is
the subject of heated debate and changed by the courts
and changes and interpretation. How volunteer school boards supposed to
comply with all of that, it's an impossibility. What I
(03:47):
think they're focusing on properly, and what the Minister is
asking to focus on properly is please make sure that
everything you do tries to reduce the inequity between the
achievement of marriage students and the achievement of other students,
and that's entirely appropriate exactly what skill Board should be doing.
And I think that that is in fact in compliance
with the crowns obligation regard to the tweety white thing.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
All right, okay, guys, we're going to take a break.
I want to know what you think about this rough
sleeper news that's dropped today. Right, you're back with the huddle,
Fellow Riley, Gareth Hughes, now Phil Labors drop the fact
that they believe that the government is going to introduce
a ban on rough sleepers and cities. How do you
feel about this?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I support the ban, but what are you going to
do with them? So the rough sleepers would become a
real issue, not just in New Zealand but also in
many cities around the world. And there's no question they
contribute to a feeling that the whole idea contributes to
a feeling of a lack of security, a lack of safety.
It can be quite confronting for people to have to
(04:44):
have to see all that and to be part of it.
So I agree with the idea that something should be
done about them, but you can't just say their band,
what are they going to do. Where are they going
to go? So you need to, I think, have a
wrap around service that says, we're not going to let
you sleep rough, but here's what we are going to do.
We're we're going to put you into some sort of
transitional accommodation or something like that, because often it's the
lack of that transitional accommodation or those kinds of wrap
(05:05):
around services that lead to the rough sleeping. Not always
some are rough sleeping, so they can beg let's be
clear about that, they're not all sort of necessarily if
people with no choice, sometimes they do with the choices.
But broadly speaking, banning them is not the only answer.
We should make sure they move somewhere more conducive to
(05:26):
their success.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I'd imagine, Gareth that at least at the outset,
if you do something like this, many of them will
be spending the night in jail.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Or wide are out of the city into the suburbs.
And I agree with fifty percent of what Phil said.
You know, we need to come up with comprehensive solutions
to the problem. If we're just banning it and moving
the problem elsewhere, you know, that's the definition of the
bottom of the cliff. Thinking where people are drifting down
the river a little bit further at the bottom of
the cliff reminds me in Wales they were handing out
(05:55):
stab proof sleeping bag coats. You know, this was not
the solution of the rough sleeping problem. It's giving people
houses and I get that it's really uncomfortable in a
lot of our city centers. It's sad for me as
a parent that my teen daughter doesn't feel safe walking
around downtown Wellington. But the answer is a self fair.
We've just got to get affordable housing. I know, unemployments
(06:17):
at a nine year high. It's not normal that we
have so much rough sleeping in this country. We didn't
used to have it, and it's a result of concrete policies.
But we can change those policies.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's kind of probably quite normal nowadays, isn't it, though.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Cares it's sad. I'm not that old, but I still
remember a country where it just wasn't normal with one
person in Gisbel and where I grew up.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It happens in lots of cities and lots of countries,
and it's a wider issue than just you know, complaining
about how new Zealand's got poor policies, but it is
about making sure that there is something for them to do. Otherwise,
to Goa's point though, what are you going to do?
What are they going to do? Turn up a new limb?
I mean, you know, so you need to have some
sort of opportunity to possible though phell.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
That if you take them out of the city center,
the it's action to rough sleeping for some of them.
Some of them will fade, right because at least some
of the attraction is being there where the buzzers and
everybody else's and you're doing your drugs and you're you're
getting boozed. If you get pushed out to Newlan, it's
not nearly as fun if you're on your tod and
the bus stop.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I think that's right. In other words, you can't say
that all rough sleepers are there if you like, because
there's nowhere else them to go, right. But so that's right.
But I think there's enough of that as certainly as
I walk around walk from CBD and want you can
see we didn't see them. Certainly, some of them are
desperate souls and we need to help them. So I
think it's a you can be cynical either way about this.
(07:37):
This is a dreadful thing the government's doing. That they're
rough sleeping, that's not quite true. And that all of
them are just rough sleeping because they can they can
beg and do drugs. That's not true. Yeah, there's a
middle ground here.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
How are you stressed out, Gareth about the Chinese ambassador
sending letters to MPs?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I wouldn't say stressed out, but it does seem to
be an increasing pattern and I think we should be
concerned about it because look, government, be it China or
Russia or the US, should be interfering our politics. I
actually agree with that TMP Laura McClure who said, you know,
in New Zealand, where parliament sovereign and our democracy, MPs
are free to exercise their judgment. I'm not happy that
(08:16):
the Chinese Embassy is sending a lot of criticisms of
late everything from from this is a visit to Taiwan
through to other things like the documentaries being screened, how
we operate customs. Yeah, we don't do it to them
and they shouldn't be doing it to us.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yes, Phil.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
People can send letters to MPs for all sorts of reasons.
So I've got no problem with Chinese ambassador's us inbassadors
you know, the Westmere Bowling Club or they had to
send the letter through. I take not much interest in
it other than to say, other than to say, the
MP should read that letter, should should take it for
what it's worth, and then I think properly ignore it
(08:55):
and get on, you know, doing what they need to do.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, fair point. Hey, listen, thank you very much for
you too, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Go well.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That is Gareth Hughs and follow Raleiah Hudle this evening
for more.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
From Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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