August 20, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union and Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The OCR dropped by 25 basis points to 3 percent today, with the MPC divided about the cuts. This indicates the economy is not in a good spot - where does this leave the Government?
Winston Peters is offering to give public evidence at the Covid inquiry - is this a stunt?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Unique Homes,
Uniquely for you on the huddle.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
For me this evening we have Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union,
Jack tam Q and I host host of Saturday Mornings
on ZB Hello you too. I'm going to come back
to Winston and all this stuff about COVID, But can
I start with you Jordan on the ocr Should the
Reserve Bank have cut double today?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, it's pretty clear that the economy is in trouble
and the government's in trouble on the economy. I don't
know if you saw, but Nikola Willis made quite an
extraordinary attack on the Taxpayer's Union for pointing out the
blindly obvious, which is that spending continues to increase, that
is driving the cost of living and making as a
(00:44):
huge anchor on the economy. And she had a big
swipe at the Taxpayers Union, basically resorting to a left
wing characterture that we want health in education or hospitals
and schools cut, which is nonsense on stilts. She's clearly
under real pressure and she's instead I wouldn't listen to
Taxpayers Union, listen to the Reserve Bank. The reserve banks
say we're going to cut spending in the future tense,
(01:07):
ignoring the fact that under Nikola Willis, it's almost as
if she hasn't delivered to budgets. She's increased spending relative
to Grant Robinson, relative to the size of the economy.
She's clearly under real pressure.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I think so too, Jack. Should they have double cut?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Well, I think if you look at the inflation numbers,
I mean they are getting you know, if we go
from the most recent inflation numbers, they're getting pretty high
to the period within the target band. And let us
not forget that the very first step that this new
government took was to amend the Reserve Bank Act so
that they would have the sole focus on keeping inflation.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But they need to look through this, right and they
know themselves they need to look through this because inflation
is going to come back because of what's going on
in the economy, so that they should be looking through.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
But at the moment, at the moment, it's at two
point seven percent, and all you need is for a
little shot through it, you know, a tariff being fifteen
percent rather than ten percent or something like that, and
all of a sudden we start nudging north of the
upper part of that band, and what is the result
being been told to focus ruthlessly on inflation. So yeah,
I mean, I think I can understand why they you know,
(02:16):
why the committee was split today, But I'm not surprised
they went with twenty five points. I think the real
question is going to be whether or not they cut
it two more times, heating into twenty twenty six, which
is obviously not where they were expecting their last update.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I reckon Jordan that the government should be getting quite
nervous about where this economy is going and whether it
actually starts feeling any better for us in a year's time.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
They are, they are. I mean, the Jex has put
his finger on the point, which is that the government,
because the government hasn't followed through on its promises to
get spending under control, it's kept inflation high, which means
we can't get the necessarily low ocr that we need
to get the economy back into shape. That it's a
(03:01):
continuation of the sort of of the Durn Robinson era
of simply thinking that jawboney in the economy, running a
comm strategy is enough to get us back on track.
You know, the work just hasn't been done. Look, I
understand that, you know, politicians have to spin, but it's
starting to turn into a little bit of Nikola willis
(03:23):
parallel universe where she claims to have cut spending and
I you know you rightly had her up on this
and they're getting the books into shape. Let's go through
the fact she's spending more. We're borrowing more per day
right now than when Grant Robinson left office, and we
are actually markets are already determining. You look at our
ten year bond rate, the costs of at cost of
(03:45):
the crown. Despite our relatively low ocr we're paying our
second only to the UK in terms of their ten
year bond ten year guilt rate. You know, the collactons
are going off.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeh, I've got to take a break, But Jack, I
want to get your take when we come back on
how much trouble Nichola is.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
In the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the
ones for unmashed results.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Right, you're back with a huddle, Jack Tame Jordan Williams.
Jack Hosking this morning said he would take Erica Stanford
over Nikola Willis. Now a year ago, Nikola Willis was
the heir apparent. So what's happened?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Ah, Well, the economy's not doing very well. Whereas I
think the majority of New Zealanders probably look at Erica
Stanford's handling of the education portfolio and say that she's
right on top of things at the moment, and that
actually a lot of the reforms that she's proposing long overdue.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And how much trouble is she in? How much trouble
isn'tause you realize that Chris just let me finish quarly.
You realize Chris Luction's fortunes are so tied to what
Nikola Willis is doing because the pair of them has
said that they would get the economy back on truck.
So how much trouble is she personally in that position?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, I mean I think that I think the entire
government's fortunes rest on the state of the economy. And look,
while things are dire at the moment, you have to
say that over the next twelve months or so, on
the balance of probabilities, even though I don't think our
economy is going to be absolutely singing in twelve month time,
on the balance of probabilities, we probably will have turned
(05:12):
a bit of a corner. At the very least, sentiment
is likely to be a little more positive than it
is today. That probably August well for Nikola Willis. I
think if they were shack things up before the election
and mover out of the financial portfolio, that would be
seen as a bit of panic station. But yeah, I mean,
you know, all you need is for things to not
turn around. I mean, I think that they've been surprised
(05:34):
at how long it has taken to turn this bus,
and yeah, who knows where it's going to go over
the next six months or time.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Jordan, that business with Winston wanting to appear before the
COVID inquiry is just a stunt, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, But I mean it's it's a relatively good one.
You've been reading that. I was going to say reading
the tea leaves, but brex is reading the text bas
with the snappole that we did carried by the Herald
on the weekend that actually even even labor voters think
it's wrong for our the decision makers for what were
(06:07):
the most significant public policy decisions in our lifetime, not
to front up this sort of weird approach that sort
of a private behind closed or courts and some decision
provide the public accountability. Well, on that basis, we wouldn't
have public access to courts. I don't know about you heither,
but I want to hear There's lots of questions I
(06:27):
want here, and not just a report on. I want
to hear them answer to judge for myself and I
think for you. You know, I'm not a COVID cooker,
but you know, I mean for a lot of News Islanders,
this really impacted their I don't mean to be to
disrespect on that, but you know it impacted the confidence
and institutions, and there is a public good in having
(06:48):
and even if everything was justified, we should be a
mature democracy that does require our leaders to front up.
I think it's a real failing on the commissioners on
this for not actually understanding what the job is. This
idea that well, we don't want it to turn adversarial
or political. Really yeah, well politics is the accountability mechanism here,
(07:13):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
What do you think, Jack.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Well? I'm reading a press release from New Zealand first,
when the Phase two of the COVID inquiry was announced
at which point you might remember they invoked the agree
to disagree clause. So what New Zealand first wanted was
for the first phase to be scrapped and expanded. But
in reading this press release, they do say they support
the Phase two of the second of the Commission of Inquiry,
(07:40):
which is interesting because, of course the Phase two terms
of reference explicitly stated that it would be the period
from February twenty twenty one. I mean, I think both
of the phases of the COVID Inquiry have been imperfect.
I think the first phase had two narrow terms of reference.
I think there are a couple of vital things, including
vaccine efficacy in monetary policy, that should have been sitted
(08:00):
in the first phase. And the second phase, I think
it's just a continuation of the politicization of all of this,
and that if you really wanted an earnest accounting for
the COVID decisions, and I think we all deserve it,
I think it's a missed opportunity for politicians not to
be fronting publicly this time around. But if you really
wanted a sincere accounting for those decisions, surely you go
(08:22):
from the start of the pandemic wouldn't you, So, you know,
for Wells and Peters to say, oh, look I'm prepared
to appear before it. Well that's well and good. But
he was a private citizen. He wasn't a member of
a parliament during the period the second phases.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Considerently any of us could just appear and do the
same thing. Hey, guys, thank you as always appreciated. Jack Tame,
Jordan Williams a huddle.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Unique Homes,
Uniquely for you on the huddle.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
For me this evening we have Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union,
Jack tam Q and I host host of Saturday Mornings
on ZB Hello you too. I'm going to come back
to Winston and all this stuff about COVID, But can
I start with you Jordan on the ocr Should the
Reserve Bank have cut double today?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, it's pretty clear that the economy is in trouble
and the government's in trouble on the economy. I don't
know if you saw, but Nikola Willis made quite an
extraordinary attack on the Taxpayer's Union for pointing out the
blindly obvious, which is that spending continues to increase, that
is driving the cost of living and making as a
(00:44):
huge anchor on the economy. And she had a big
swipe at the Taxpayers Union, basically resorting to a left
wing characterture that we want health in education or hospitals
and schools cut, which is nonsense on stilts. She's clearly
under real pressure and she's instead I wouldn't listen to
Taxpayers Union, listen to the Reserve Bank. The reserve banks
say we're going to cut spending in the future tense,
(01:07):
ignoring the fact that under Nikola Willis, it's almost as
if she hasn't delivered to budgets. She's increased spending relative
to Grant Robinson, relative to the size of the economy.
She's clearly under real pressure.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I think so too, Jack. Should they have double cut?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Well, I think if you look at the inflation numbers,
I mean they are getting you know, if we go
from the most recent inflation numbers, they're getting pretty high
to the period within the target band. And let us
not forget that the very first step that this new
government took was to amend the Reserve Bank Act so
that they would have the sole focus on keeping inflation.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But they need to look through this, right and they
know themselves they need to look through this because inflation
is going to come back because of what's going on
in the economy, so that they should be looking through.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
But at the moment, at the moment, it's at two
point seven percent, and all you need is for a
little shot through it, you know, a tariff being fifteen
percent rather than ten percent or something like that, and
all of a sudden we start nudging north of the
upper part of that band, and what is the result
being been told to focus ruthlessly on inflation. So yeah,
I mean, I think I can understand why they you know,
(02:16):
why the committee was split today, But I'm not surprised
they went with twenty five points. I think the real
question is going to be whether or not they cut
it two more times, heating into twenty twenty six, which
is obviously not where they were expecting their last update.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I reckon Jordan that the government should be getting quite
nervous about where this economy is going and whether it
actually starts feeling any better for us in a year's time.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
They are, they are. I mean, the Jex has put
his finger on the point, which is that the government,
because the government hasn't followed through on its promises to
get spending under control, it's kept inflation high, which means
we can't get the necessarily low ocr that we need
to get the economy back into shape. That it's a
(03:01):
continuation of the sort of of the Durn Robinson era
of simply thinking that jawboney in the economy, running a
comm strategy is enough to get us back on track.
You know, the work just hasn't been done. Look, I
understand that, you know, politicians have to spin, but it's
starting to turn into a little bit of Nikola willis
(03:23):
parallel universe where she claims to have cut spending and
I you know you rightly had her up on this
and they're getting the books into shape. Let's go through
the fact she's spending more. We're borrowing more per day
right now than when Grant Robinson left office, and we
are actually markets are already determining. You look at our
ten year bond rate, the costs of at cost of
(03:45):
the crown. Despite our relatively low ocr we're paying our
second only to the UK in terms of their ten
year bond ten year guilt rate. You know, the collactons
are going off.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeh, I've got to take a break, But Jack, I
want to get your take when we come back on
how much trouble Nichola is.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
In the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the
ones for unmashed results.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Right, you're back with a huddle, Jack Tame Jordan Williams.
Jack Hosking this morning said he would take Erica Stanford
over Nikola Willis. Now a year ago, Nikola Willis was
the heir apparent. So what's happened?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Ah, Well, the economy's not doing very well. Whereas I
think the majority of New Zealanders probably look at Erica
Stanford's handling of the education portfolio and say that she's
right on top of things at the moment, and that
actually a lot of the reforms that she's proposing long overdue.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And how much trouble is she in? How much trouble
isn'tause you realize that Chris just let me finish quarly.
You realize Chris Luction's fortunes are so tied to what
Nikola Willis is doing because the pair of them has
said that they would get the economy back on truck.
So how much trouble is she personally in that position?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, I mean I think that I think the entire
government's fortunes rest on the state of the economy. And look,
while things are dire at the moment, you have to
say that over the next twelve months or so, on
the balance of probabilities, even though I don't think our
economy is going to be absolutely singing in twelve month time,
on the balance of probabilities, we probably will have turned
(05:12):
a bit of a corner. At the very least, sentiment
is likely to be a little more positive than it
is today. That probably August well for Nikola Willis. I
think if they were shack things up before the election
and mover out of the financial portfolio, that would be
seen as a bit of panic station. But yeah, I mean,
you know, all you need is for things to not
turn around. I mean, I think that they've been surprised
(05:34):
at how long it has taken to turn this bus,
and yeah, who knows where it's going to go over
the next six months or time.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Jordan, that business with Winston wanting to appear before the
COVID inquiry is just a stunt, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, But I mean it's it's a relatively good one.
You've been reading that. I was going to say reading
the tea leaves, but brex is reading the text bas
with the snappole that we did carried by the Herald
on the weekend that actually even even labor voters think
it's wrong for our the decision makers for what were
(06:07):
the most significant public policy decisions in our lifetime, not
to front up this sort of weird approach that sort
of a private behind closed or courts and some decision
provide the public accountability. Well, on that basis, we wouldn't
have public access to courts. I don't know about you heither,
but I want to hear There's lots of questions I
(06:27):
want here, and not just a report on. I want
to hear them answer to judge for myself and I
think for you. You know, I'm not a COVID cooker,
but you know, I mean for a lot of News Islanders,
this really impacted their I don't mean to be to
disrespect on that, but you know it impacted the confidence
and institutions, and there is a public good in having
(06:48):
and even if everything was justified, we should be a
mature democracy that does require our leaders to front up.
I think it's a real failing on the commissioners on
this for not actually understanding what the job is. This
idea that well, we don't want it to turn adversarial
or political. Really yeah, well politics is the accountability mechanism here,
(07:13):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
What do you think, Jack.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Well? I'm reading a press release from New Zealand first,
when the Phase two of the COVID inquiry was announced
at which point you might remember they invoked the agree
to disagree clause. So what New Zealand first wanted was
for the first phase to be scrapped and expanded. But
in reading this press release, they do say they support
the Phase two of the second of the Commission of Inquiry,
(07:40):
which is interesting because, of course the Phase two terms
of reference explicitly stated that it would be the period
from February twenty twenty one. I mean, I think both
of the phases of the COVID Inquiry have been imperfect.
I think the first phase had two narrow terms of reference.
I think there are a couple of vital things, including
vaccine efficacy in monetary policy, that should have been sitted
(08:00):
in the first phase. And the second phase, I think
it's just a continuation of the politicization of all of this,
and that if you really wanted an earnest accounting for
the COVID decisions, and I think we all deserve it,
I think it's a missed opportunity for politicians not to
be fronting publicly this time around. But if you really
wanted a sincere accounting for those decisions, surely you go
(08:22):
from the start of the pandemic wouldn't you, So, you know,
for Wells and Peters to say, oh, look I'm prepared
to appear before it. Well that's well and good. But
he was a private citizen. He wasn't a member of
a parliament during the period the second phases.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Considerently any of us could just appear and do the
same thing. Hey, guys, thank you as always appreciated. Jack Tame,
Jordan Williams a huddle.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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