April 3, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Director at Wellington Government Relations Firm Silvereye Conor English and broadcaster Mark Sainsbury joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day -and more!
Donald Trump has finally unveiled his tariffs to the world - with many countries being hit with 10 percent tariffs on the low end. How concerned are we?
The Justice Select Committee has finished up its hearings on the Treaty Principles Bill, but thousands of submissions were not heard (or read). The opposition is complaining that National is trying to shut down the process too quickly. Is it undemocratic?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just gone the huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty,
the ones with worldwide connections that perform.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Not a promise, Someone says, Bryan, you keep saying the number,
the amount we need to pay. Isn't it the US
importers that pay? We may just sell this? Yes, you're
quite right. There was a slip of the tongue from me. Connor,
English director at Wellington government relations firm silver Ie is
with me on the huddle tonight along with Mark Sainsbury, broadcaster.
Good evening, guys, get a.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh there you go. Mark, you'd muted yourself with the
beautiful check bones. You're back there. We are all right,
sains What do you make of Donald Trump and his
and his announcement today? Would were you expecting worse? Always
muted himself again apparently, Connor, let's go with the safe
option here. What do you make of it?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, I go, I'm fascinated by it, and I know
it's not positive for New Zealand because we have the
direct impact of ten percent on you know that eight
or nine billion dollars of we've got going over there.
But there'll be secondary effects, you know, through change and
trade flows and you know, commodity prices and interest rates
and exchange rates, and some of those will be positive,
(01:11):
some of those will be negative. But the thing that
fascinates me, Ryan is just the big picture here. And
I can't help but thinking that what the American administration
is trying to do is a bit of a tax
swap where they're looking to go from income and company
text and wanting to lower that, and they're wanting to
get revenue from tariffs and also selling what they call
(01:31):
in the gold card visa to balance their books and
you know, try and protect jobs in their domestic market
at the same time. So you know, they've done it
before in the nineteen thirties. It didn't work out so well,
So we'll see what happens this time.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, you're on the money. I mean, that's exactly what
Trump was saying today, wasn't it. He said, why are
we paying you know, why are our workers? And he
had all the union and workers in front of it.
Why are we paying personal income taxt? And we could
have the rest of the world paying it for us?
So Mark, what did you Mark? What did you make
about it?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Look, I mean, Connor's quite right. The Smooth Hawly Tariffact
nineteen thirty. They brought in twenty twenty five percent tariffs.
It worsened the depression that.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Caused Mark's mute again.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
My bony it's my bony ear keeps hitting the mute
button on the Sorry about but yeah, they went through
this before.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It's it's where is it?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
And the thing is everyone just accepts it. It's just
it's sort of the world ruled by Trump and everyone's
just looking. I mean, I really worry about the you know,
the world economics sort of you know situation. Are we
now expected to bankroll the US? It seems to be.
I think Connor's quite right, that's what that's what Trump
is trying to do. But the impacts and some of
(02:51):
the stuff is just mad. The Herd and McDonald Islands
in their tax list, they're getting tax ten percent. Do
you know who lives on the Herd and McDonald Island?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
No one?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
The Macaroni penguin.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What are they exporting? It's interesting. The other thing he
was talking about Connor today was he mentioned war a
couple of times, and it's this idea that you need
to be a you need to have a strong manufacturing base,
should you need to be on a war footing. You
need to be able to make your own medicines, you
(03:26):
need you can't be beholden to anyone, You need to
be able to make your own weapons, all this kind
of stuff. So is that part of the strategy. I mean,
I think it is probably part of the strategy too.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Well, I think if you if you go back in time,
you know, self sufficiency was very definitely a policy objective
that a lot of countries had post of wars that
we've had over the last few centuries, because there was
risks of particularly you know, on food security as well
as your ability to produce stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So, yeah, he is.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Obviously moving away from the sort of theory of comparative
advantage where you trade with people who can do a
better job than what you can and then you sell
them what you can do a better job than them.
And so he's moving away from that sort of framework,
but I think he's still going to be doing a
lot of trading. Yeah. And the challenge, well, the challenge
that they had in back in ninety three with a
(04:17):
smooth Holy law is of course imports went down from
about three to one billion, and you think, okay, that's
really good for you know, jobs in America. But the
trouble was other countries diverted their purchase decisions to away
from the US, and their exports went down from you know,
six billion to a couple of billion, and their GDP
haved and you know, unemployment went from eight percent to
(04:38):
twenty five percent in three years. So you know, it's
it's like old Mike Tyson says, you know, everyone's got
a plan and to get punched in the face. And
Donald Trump's He's thrown his punch and we'll see what
what comes back.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, Well, vonder Lane's lining up, hasn't she. She's she's
got a big fist ready right, Well, bet to you
guys in just a second. Connor English and Mate Sainsbury
on the huddle, The huddle.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
With New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary results with
unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Connor English and Mark Sainsbury on the huddle tonight, twelve
minutes away from six Sainzo. So, the Treaty Bill, the
Select Committee that's looking into the Treaty Bill, they're going
to report back a month early. But it means that
they won't be able to read all the submissions that
were made and the opposition. Remember they said, oh, it's
such a dangerous debate, we shouldn't be having it. Now
they're saying, actually, we should be extending it. Well, what
(05:31):
do you make of this? What's going on here?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Oh? Look, I mean, does Christopher Luxan sit there and think,
I wish we've never done this. I mean it's a
lose lose. They caught all the flat for allowing the
Treaty Principle's Bill to be introduced to begin with, and
the ghetto out of jail thing was no, no, but
it's not to go any further. But now they've opened
up Pandora's box and saying, well, we don't want to
look at exactly how many people are actually antye, because
(05:55):
that's what you suspect, that the bulk of the submissions
might have been against the bill. Not a great look.
The whole thing I think was all thought out from
the beginning and was probably totally unnecessary. It's just a joke.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It is a bit, but it's I mean as well.
Chris Luz's point, Connor, is that that's the price of MMP.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, yeah, and I mean we have got a democracy
and different parties have different policies and they do different
deals and coalition agreements to progress those policies, and this
is the outcome of a deal that was done on
one such policy. So I don't think anyone should be
surprised that there's been a bill put through Parliament that
some people disagree with and others agree with it. I mean,
(06:40):
that's nothing new, is it.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
No, I suppose not. I guess the interesting part about
this is that one side said we shouldn't be having
the debate, and now they're saying we should be extending it.
I mean just seems a little a little lot. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, but you know, there's been all sorts of bills
that some people are uncomfortable discussing, you know, things around
the end of life and gay marriage for example. True,
but there was no reason why that debate shouldn't happen.
That people are entitled to their view, they should respect
the fact that other people might have a different view.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah. A good point well, to add.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
To that was the fact that Seymour is it said
that he that it wasn't a it wasn't a deal
breaker in terms of the coalition agreement. Really, yes, he
said there was an interview with Guyan Espina and he said,
so you wonder why on earth you know? I mean
that just that, just case, I said, just comes back
to the fascal nature of it all, and just the
(07:34):
you know, you just must you must, you would wake
up in the middle of and I can think, why
the hell?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, it was an odd time outside waiting outside the
Courts Hotel in Auckland for those negotiations to be finished.
I wonder what did happen on the inside?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I think though it is it is interesting though Ryan
that I mean, there has been a lot of interest
in this bill, and so it does show that people,
you know, from a range of perspectives are interested in
this is an issue.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I think it's it's it's you know, positive that people
are participating in the process and you know, they're probably
having discussions that they wouldn't otherwise have. And I don't
I don't take the view that if you have a
discussion that's a bad thing. I think so long as
you're polite and professional and you know you're it's not
a bad it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Except some of the parts that discussion. Connor will never
be here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, that's that's the point that maybe has a problem with. Yeah,
But but I guess the other point is has sure
we've had a debate, Connor, but has David Seymour won it?
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Or was that never the point? You know?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I don't know, I don't I don't know. But but
maybe he has won it in the sense that there's
been a lot more discussion about it than there would
be otherwise. And you know, people are saying, well.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Is this good? Is it bad?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
You know? Is there other ways of looking at it?
I think that's a healthy thing. And a democracy, isn't
it to have a discussion and a constructive way. I
think it is unfortunate that some people on both sides
of the argument have taken a bit of a negative
and destructive view of things. But you know, isn't discussion good?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah? All right, Hey guys, we have to leave it there.
Thanks for coming on. Mark, You'll have to sort out
your your ears next time.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I starting to give a little page. I'm going to
get a procedure done.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Just what have them taken off? That's not going to
help horns. I're going to help you stock point them
at the top conoring list and Mark Sainsbury on the
huddle tonight.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Just gone the huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty,
the ones with worldwide connections that perform.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Not a promise, Someone says, Bryan, you keep saying the number,
the amount we need to pay. Isn't it the US
importers that pay? We may just sell this? Yes, you're
quite right. There was a slip of the tongue from me. Connor,
English director at Wellington government relations firm silver Ie is
with me on the huddle tonight along with Mark Sainsbury, broadcaster.
Good evening, guys, get a.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh there you go. Mark, you'd muted yourself with the
beautiful check bones. You're back there. We are all right,
sains What do you make of Donald Trump and his
and his announcement today? Would were you expecting worse? Always
muted himself again apparently, Connor, let's go with the safe
option here. What do you make of it?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, I go, I'm fascinated by it, and I know
it's not positive for New Zealand because we have the
direct impact of ten percent on you know that eight
or nine billion dollars of we've got going over there.
But there'll be secondary effects, you know, through change and
trade flows and you know, commodity prices and interest rates
and exchange rates, and some of those will be positive,
(01:11):
some of those will be negative. But the thing that
fascinates me, Ryan is just the big picture here. And
I can't help but thinking that what the American administration
is trying to do is a bit of a tax
swap where they're looking to go from income and company
text and wanting to lower that, and they're wanting to
get revenue from tariffs and also selling what they call
(01:31):
in the gold card visa to balance their books and
you know, try and protect jobs in their domestic market
at the same time. So you know, they've done it
before in the nineteen thirties. It didn't work out so well,
So we'll see what happens this time.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, you're on the money. I mean, that's exactly what
Trump was saying today, wasn't it. He said, why are
we paying you know, why are our workers? And he
had all the union and workers in front of it.
Why are we paying personal income taxt? And we could
have the rest of the world paying it for us?
So Mark, what did you Mark? What did you make
about it?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Look, I mean, Connor's quite right. The Smooth Hawly Tariffact
nineteen thirty. They brought in twenty twenty five percent tariffs.
It worsened the depression that.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Caused Mark's mute again.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
My bony it's my bony ear keeps hitting the mute
button on the Sorry about but yeah, they went through
this before.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It's it's where is it?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
And the thing is everyone just accepts it. It's just
it's sort of the world ruled by Trump and everyone's
just looking. I mean, I really worry about the you know,
the world economics sort of you know situation. Are we
now expected to bankroll the US? It seems to be.
I think Connor's quite right, that's what that's what Trump
is trying to do. But the impacts and some of
(02:51):
the stuff is just mad. The Herd and McDonald Islands
in their tax list, they're getting tax ten percent. Do
you know who lives on the Herd and McDonald Island?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
No one?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
The Macaroni penguin.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What are they exporting? It's interesting. The other thing he
was talking about Connor today was he mentioned war a
couple of times, and it's this idea that you need
to be a you need to have a strong manufacturing base,
should you need to be on a war footing. You
need to be able to make your own medicines, you
(03:26):
need you can't be beholden to anyone, You need to
be able to make your own weapons, all this kind
of stuff. So is that part of the strategy. I mean,
I think it is probably part of the strategy too.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Well, I think if you if you go back in time,
you know, self sufficiency was very definitely a policy objective
that a lot of countries had post of wars that
we've had over the last few centuries, because there was
risks of particularly you know, on food security as well
as your ability to produce stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So, yeah, he is.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Obviously moving away from the sort of theory of comparative
advantage where you trade with people who can do a
better job than what you can and then you sell
them what you can do a better job than them.
And so he's moving away from that sort of framework,
but I think he's still going to be doing a
lot of trading. Yeah. And the challenge, well, the challenge
that they had in back in ninety three with a
(04:17):
smooth Holy law is of course imports went down from
about three to one billion, and you think, okay, that's
really good for you know, jobs in America. But the
trouble was other countries diverted their purchase decisions to away
from the US, and their exports went down from you know,
six billion to a couple of billion, and their GDP
haved and you know, unemployment went from eight percent to
(04:38):
twenty five percent in three years. So you know, it's
it's like old Mike Tyson says, you know, everyone's got
a plan and to get punched in the face. And
Donald Trump's He's thrown his punch and we'll see what
what comes back.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, Well, vonder Lane's lining up, hasn't she. She's she's
got a big fist ready right, Well, bet to you
guys in just a second. Connor English and Mate Sainsbury
on the huddle, The huddle.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
With New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary results with
unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Connor English and Mark Sainsbury on the huddle tonight, twelve
minutes away from six Sainzo. So, the Treaty Bill, the
Select Committee that's looking into the Treaty Bill, they're going
to report back a month early. But it means that
they won't be able to read all the submissions that
were made and the opposition. Remember they said, oh, it's
such a dangerous debate, we shouldn't be having it. Now
they're saying, actually, we should be extending it. Well, what
(05:31):
do you make of this? What's going on here?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Oh? Look, I mean, does Christopher Luxan sit there and think,
I wish we've never done this. I mean it's a
lose lose. They caught all the flat for allowing the
Treaty Principle's Bill to be introduced to begin with, and
the ghetto out of jail thing was no, no, but
it's not to go any further. But now they've opened
up Pandora's box and saying, well, we don't want to
look at exactly how many people are actually antye, because
(05:55):
that's what you suspect, that the bulk of the submissions
might have been against the bill. Not a great look.
The whole thing I think was all thought out from
the beginning and was probably totally unnecessary. It's just a joke.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It is a bit, but it's I mean as well.
Chris Luz's point, Connor, is that that's the price of MMP.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, yeah, and I mean we have got a democracy
and different parties have different policies and they do different
deals and coalition agreements to progress those policies, and this
is the outcome of a deal that was done on
one such policy. So I don't think anyone should be
surprised that there's been a bill put through Parliament that
some people disagree with and others agree with it. I mean,
(06:40):
that's nothing new, is it.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
No, I suppose not. I guess the interesting part about
this is that one side said we shouldn't be having
the debate, and now they're saying we should be extending it.
I mean just seems a little a little lot. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, but you know, there's been all sorts of bills
that some people are uncomfortable discussing, you know, things around
the end of life and gay marriage for example. True,
but there was no reason why that debate shouldn't happen.
That people are entitled to their view, they should respect
the fact that other people might have a different view.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah. A good point well, to add.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
To that was the fact that Seymour is it said
that he that it wasn't a it wasn't a deal
breaker in terms of the coalition agreement. Really, yes, he
said there was an interview with Guyan Espina and he said,
so you wonder why on earth you know? I mean
that just that, just case, I said, just comes back
to the fascal nature of it all, and just the
(07:34):
you know, you just must you must, you would wake
up in the middle of and I can think, why
the hell?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, it was an odd time outside waiting outside the
Courts Hotel in Auckland for those negotiations to be finished.
I wonder what did happen on the inside?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I think though it is it is interesting though Ryan
that I mean, there has been a lot of interest
in this bill, and so it does show that people,
you know, from a range of perspectives are interested in
this is an issue.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I think it's it's it's you know, positive that people
are participating in the process and you know, they're probably
having discussions that they wouldn't otherwise have. And I don't
I don't take the view that if you have a
discussion that's a bad thing. I think so long as
you're polite and professional and you know you're it's not
a bad it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Except some of the parts that discussion. Connor will never
be here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, that's that's the point that maybe has a problem with. Yeah,
But but I guess the other point is has sure
we've had a debate, Connor, but has David Seymour won it?
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Or was that never the point? You know?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I don't know, I don't I don't know. But but
maybe he has won it in the sense that there's
been a lot more discussion about it than there would
be otherwise. And you know, people are saying, well.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Is this good? Is it bad?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
You know? Is there other ways of looking at it?
I think that's a healthy thing. And a democracy, isn't
it to have a discussion and a constructive way. I
think it is unfortunate that some people on both sides
of the argument have taken a bit of a negative
and destructive view of things. But you know, isn't discussion good?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah? All right, Hey guys, we have to leave it there.
Thanks for coming on. Mark, You'll have to sort out
your your ears next time.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I starting to give a little page. I'm going to
get a procedure done.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Just what have them taken off? That's not going to
help horns. I're going to help you stock point them
at the top conoring list and Mark Sainsbury on the
huddle tonight.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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