October 16, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, journalist Clare de Lore and Thomas Scrimgeour joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Former Prime Minister Jim Bolger passed away - what memories do we have of him?
It's been revealed the new Cook Strait ferries will be built by a Chinese company which US analysts have warned have very strong ties to the Chinese military. Should that worry us?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nineteen away from six the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's
International Realty, the global leader in luxury real estate.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Turns out that I was very confident the other day
that something was completely kooky and I was wrong. So
I'm going to have to address that before the end
of this hour. With me on the huddle, we have
clear de Law, who was of course a journalist in
Thomas Scrumger of the Maximum Institute. Hi, you two good Claire.
When was the last time you saw Jim Bulger.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
As his ninetieth birthday party earlier this year? And why
can I and you know it was a great occasion.
It was lower Keevan many of the partneries he probably
had when he was much younger, but you know, he
was ninety. He was not well, but he was in
very good spirits. There was a great sort of sense
occasion about it. Mostly family, because goodness me, you know,
(00:49):
with nine kids and lots of grandchildren and then brothers, sisters, cousins, auntie, uncles,
it was a big gathering.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And then trying tell me his aunties and uncles were
still alive.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
No, the aunties and uncles of you know, extended rallies
and you know Jones and Joan's family. You know, Joan's
family are there. You know, I'm saying this is a
big extended family. And the kids, the kids were great.
You know, the kids range in age from around about
sixty down to forty, and so they're all grown ups now.
(01:20):
But they composed of, you know, a pretty funny song
for their dad. They played the guitar. It was a
very Irish event in many ways, Irish Catholic, and I
think he was as happy as a clam.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I think. So it wasn't really shocked that he passed
away because he had been really unwell for quite a time.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, his health had been failing, and he remained him
really I thought great spirits given that because he was
on dialysis at home, you know, up to five times
a day. That's that's really taxing on the system. It
stops you doing a whole bunch of other things, really
restraining on Joan. But they have family nearby, and a
(01:58):
couple of the door has lived nearby and they will
sort of in and out all the time. And also
Jim had the phone and he really you know, her
calling up his old mates, just yearning about the good
old days, and also about what's going on currently in politics.
And I heard, you know, Ruth Richardson commenting on him,
repudiating some of her you know, the policies she drove through. Well,
(02:22):
he wasn't an ideologue, as I think one could say
Ruth was, so he had had time to reflect on
the human toll of those doesn't mean that those policies
and their implementation was wrong, but he was basically someone
with a pretty big heart, and he could see that
there is always somebody who gets the you know, the
(02:43):
bad end of the deal, and others get much richer
as a result of some polities.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Now, Thomas, you're a bit of a student of politics, word,
what what's your take on him?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Certainly, I think it's interesting how much of a an
ambiguous figure Jim Bolger is when people are reflect on
his legacy, people who he was collaborating with in politics,
Ruth Richardson recognized a rift had emerged in how they
were viewing the legacy of their government, and some people
who were on the other side of politics came to
recognize Jim Bolgia. I think his largest legacy really is
(03:16):
those treaty settlements, and many people have recognized that because
they were such a transtional event for New Zealand politics.
He recognized that for Mahi to have Mana Mortuhaki to
have I guess a sense of redress and independence, it
was actually economic independence that really mattered and those have
been huge successes, Nitahu and Tainui economic powerhouses now because
(03:39):
of what Jim Bolger did. And I guess the other
observation to make is he was our last prime minister
without a tertiary education. Ever since, it's all been Uni people,
and I think that's a real shift in New Zealand
public life. It's hard to imagine now and I think
this is a tragedy, but it's hard to imagine now
who was coming into public political leadership without a university education.
(04:00):
And I think that's real loss to us.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
As you know what, I actually do agree with you,
and also the last of the farmer prime ministers, isn't
it right. We'll take a break, come back to you
guys shortly.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Find your one.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Of a Kind twelve away from six and we have
the huddle back with us. Claire de lu and Thomas Scrimger,
Heather read the boats. What are you worried about? We're
going to sink them before any war anyway, which is
probably true. We'll figure out a way to make the
autopilot network. Thomas, A. You worried about this with the Chinese?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Not especially?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I mean I can hear the concerned people have. China
is obviously a geopolitical actor that we're not always necessarily
aligned with if we're going to be cagy about language,
but certainly it's a real risk to New Zealand. But
we're doing business with China in all aspects of life anyway.
If we're going to draw a line with engaging with
China and doing business purchasing theory seems like a weird
(04:51):
place to draw that line. Obviously would prefer to have
a values aligned country pies off. But if the Chinese
fiories are the best deal, it seems like a pragmatic
thing to proceed.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
What do you think, Claire, I'm afraid I have to agree.
It does seem to me gives a degree of paranoia
about it, But you know, perhaps there is justifiable concern.
But I didn't hear Anne Marie Brady Fayvor decision was
actually wrong, And I just wonder if one looks at
the contract, is there an ability, for example, for New
Zealand to have inspectors go in and try and work
(05:26):
out where the potential sort of software is being planted
that's going to track us. Reality is, most of us
are easily tracked, and you know, communications in scept it
because we're using iPhones made in China, and we have
televisions made in China, and we have a range of
other things that can track us and are at tracking
us all the time. So I'm not as concerned as
(05:48):
possibly I should be. Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Think I think actually you've probably hit the nail on
the head there, Claire. I suspect we should be a
little bit more concerned. We're probably going to end up
having to decide whether we want to go to war
with them or not. But you know who can be bothered?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, it's probably also a timing issue. Yeah, you know
they probably can deliver on time. Now that's going to
have been really important to our Minister of Railways. Yeah,
these theories are delivered on time.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Very good point. Hey, Thomas, what do you think about
the BSA deciding that it's got greater powers than everybody
else thought they had.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I think they're fairly optimistic if they think they're going
to be able to get this across the line a
little the new kind of ambiguity. Going back twenty nineteen,
they had a paper where they were trying to figure
out what they could or couldn't do around the Internet.
But I think it's just a basic fact that even
if they want to, firstly, they should be done by legislation,
by Parliament deciding. But I just don't think they're going
(06:40):
to be able to have any control over the Internet.
Imagine if they did try to regulate and were trying
to impose sanctions upon Short and Plunket. The absolute worst
case scenario for him is that he moves to Sydney
and does the same show, because unlike old fashioned media
radio and TV, even if it's that is produced overseas,
it still has to come over New Zealand airwaves. But
(07:02):
that's not the case of Internet produced material. If Plunkett
wanted to move to Sydney and do the same things,
only none of it is produced or being sent over
New Zealand airwaves and he's away laughing, So it's probably
good for Plunket's brand. He set up the platform, you know,
in his own own words to be independent, and now
he's got a water fight. So good luck to the BSA.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I guess, Claire, I don't think they thought this through.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well? I think if people who are opposed to it
think it's through, they'll just complain about everything and will
be so clogged up, but they will never be able.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
To chase the excellent point you make, Lead. It's all
you need to do is go listen to the Alternative
Alternative Commentary Collective. They swear about five hundred and twenty
seven times a minute. So just complain about all of
that to the BSA. They won't even be able to
get through a day's worth of complaints in a year.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
They totally won't. And so if people you know, I
want to obstruct it, they could easily do that, but
also have to well what sort of teeth have they got?
What sort of anctions can they apply that are meaningful?
They sell them for b as. They seldom for example,
asks for broadcaster and radio at least to take down something.
(08:14):
Usually there's you know, they find that something has been
wrong and an apology might be required, but mostly broadcast
podcasts can stay up and you could argue they should
be taken down, but they don't usually do that, and
so I just sort of wonder what the point is
of expanding the REMIT when what they're doing currently, if
(08:35):
it's to have any sort of substantial effect, needs reform anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It makes such a good point, guys, it's wonderful to
talk to you. Thank you so much. Clear to lord
journalists than Thomas Scrimger maximums too.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Nineteen away from six the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's
International Realty, the global leader in luxury real estate.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Turns out that I was very confident the other day
that something was completely kooky and I was wrong. So
I'm going to have to address that before the end
of this hour. With me on the huddle, we have
clear de Law, who was of course a journalist in
Thomas Scrumger of the Maximum Institute. Hi, you two good Claire.
When was the last time you saw Jim Bulger.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
As his ninetieth birthday party earlier this year? And why
can I and you know it was a great occasion.
It was lower Keevan many of the partneries he probably
had when he was much younger, but you know, he
was ninety. He was not well, but he was in
very good spirits. There was a great sort of sense
occasion about it. Mostly family, because goodness me, you know,
(00:49):
with nine kids and lots of grandchildren and then brothers, sisters, cousins, auntie, uncles,
it was a big gathering.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And then trying tell me his aunties and uncles were
still alive.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
No, the aunties and uncles of you know, extended rallies
and you know Jones and Joan's family. You know, Joan's
family are there. You know, I'm saying this is a
big extended family. And the kids, the kids were great.
You know, the kids range in age from around about
sixty down to forty, and so they're all grown ups now.
(01:20):
But they composed of, you know, a pretty funny song
for their dad. They played the guitar. It was a
very Irish event in many ways, Irish Catholic, and I
think he was as happy as a clam.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I think. So it wasn't really shocked that he passed
away because he had been really unwell for quite a time.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, his health had been failing, and he remained him
really I thought great spirits given that because he was
on dialysis at home, you know, up to five times
a day. That's that's really taxing on the system. It
stops you doing a whole bunch of other things, really
restraining on Joan. But they have family nearby, and a
(01:58):
couple of the door has lived nearby and they will
sort of in and out all the time. And also
Jim had the phone and he really you know, her
calling up his old mates, just yearning about the good
old days, and also about what's going on currently in politics.
And I heard, you know, Ruth Richardson commenting on him,
repudiating some of her you know, the policies she drove through. Well,
(02:22):
he wasn't an ideologue, as I think one could say
Ruth was, so he had had time to reflect on
the human toll of those doesn't mean that those policies
and their implementation was wrong, but he was basically someone
with a pretty big heart, and he could see that
there is always somebody who gets the you know, the
(02:43):
bad end of the deal, and others get much richer
as a result of some polities.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Now, Thomas, you're a bit of a student of politics, word,
what what's your take on him?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Certainly, I think it's interesting how much of a an
ambiguous figure Jim Bolger is when people are reflect on
his legacy, people who he was collaborating with in politics,
Ruth Richardson recognized a rift had emerged in how they
were viewing the legacy of their government, and some people
who were on the other side of politics came to
recognize Jim Bolgia. I think his largest legacy really is
(03:16):
those treaty settlements, and many people have recognized that because
they were such a transtional event for New Zealand politics.
He recognized that for Mahi to have Mana Mortuhaki to
have I guess a sense of redress and independence, it
was actually economic independence that really mattered and those have
been huge successes, Nitahu and Tainui economic powerhouses now because
(03:39):
of what Jim Bolger did. And I guess the other
observation to make is he was our last prime minister
without a tertiary education. Ever since, it's all been Uni people,
and I think that's a real shift in New Zealand
public life. It's hard to imagine now and I think
this is a tragedy, but it's hard to imagine now
who was coming into public political leadership without a university education.
(04:00):
And I think that's real loss to us.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
As you know what, I actually do agree with you,
and also the last of the farmer prime ministers, isn't
it right. We'll take a break, come back to you
guys shortly.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Find your one.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Of a Kind twelve away from six and we have
the huddle back with us. Claire de lu and Thomas Scrimger,
Heather read the boats. What are you worried about? We're
going to sink them before any war anyway, which is
probably true. We'll figure out a way to make the
autopilot network. Thomas, A. You worried about this with the Chinese?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Not especially?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I mean I can hear the concerned people have. China
is obviously a geopolitical actor that we're not always necessarily
aligned with if we're going to be cagy about language,
but certainly it's a real risk to New Zealand. But
we're doing business with China in all aspects of life anyway.
If we're going to draw a line with engaging with
China and doing business purchasing theory seems like a weird
(04:51):
place to draw that line. Obviously would prefer to have
a values aligned country pies off. But if the Chinese
fiories are the best deal, it seems like a pragmatic
thing to proceed.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
What do you think, Claire, I'm afraid I have to agree.
It does seem to me gives a degree of paranoia
about it, But you know, perhaps there is justifiable concern.
But I didn't hear Anne Marie Brady Fayvor decision was
actually wrong, And I just wonder if one looks at
the contract, is there an ability, for example, for New
Zealand to have inspectors go in and try and work
(05:26):
out where the potential sort of software is being planted
that's going to track us. Reality is, most of us
are easily tracked, and you know, communications in scept it
because we're using iPhones made in China, and we have
televisions made in China, and we have a range of
other things that can track us and are at tracking
us all the time. So I'm not as concerned as
(05:48):
possibly I should be. Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Think I think actually you've probably hit the nail on
the head there, Claire. I suspect we should be a
little bit more concerned. We're probably going to end up
having to decide whether we want to go to war
with them or not. But you know who can be bothered?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, it's probably also a timing issue. Yeah, you know
they probably can deliver on time. Now that's going to
have been really important to our Minister of Railways. Yeah,
these theories are delivered on time.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Very good point. Hey, Thomas, what do you think about
the BSA deciding that it's got greater powers than everybody
else thought they had.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I think they're fairly optimistic if they think they're going
to be able to get this across the line a
little the new kind of ambiguity. Going back twenty nineteen,
they had a paper where they were trying to figure
out what they could or couldn't do around the Internet.
But I think it's just a basic fact that even
if they want to, firstly, they should be done by legislation,
by Parliament deciding. But I just don't think they're going
(06:40):
to be able to have any control over the Internet.
Imagine if they did try to regulate and were trying
to impose sanctions upon Short and Plunket. The absolute worst
case scenario for him is that he moves to Sydney
and does the same show, because unlike old fashioned media
radio and TV, even if it's that is produced overseas,
it still has to come over New Zealand airwaves. But
(07:02):
that's not the case of Internet produced material. If Plunkett
wanted to move to Sydney and do the same things,
only none of it is produced or being sent over
New Zealand airwaves and he's away laughing, So it's probably
good for Plunket's brand. He set up the platform, you know,
in his own own words to be independent, and now
he's got a water fight. So good luck to the BSA.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I guess, Claire, I don't think they thought this through.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well? I think if people who are opposed to it
think it's through, they'll just complain about everything and will
be so clogged up, but they will never be able.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
To chase the excellent point you make, Lead. It's all
you need to do is go listen to the Alternative
Alternative Commentary Collective. They swear about five hundred and twenty
seven times a minute. So just complain about all of
that to the BSA. They won't even be able to
get through a day's worth of complaints in a year.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
They totally won't. And so if people you know, I
want to obstruct it, they could easily do that, but
also have to well what sort of teeth have they got?
What sort of anctions can they apply that are meaningful?
They sell them for b as. They seldom for example,
asks for broadcaster and radio at least to take down something.
(08:14):
Usually there's you know, they find that something has been
wrong and an apology might be required, but mostly broadcast
podcasts can stay up and you could argue they should
be taken down, but they don't usually do that, and
so I just sort of wonder what the point is
of expanding the REMIT when what they're doing currently, if
(08:35):
it's to have any sort of substantial effect, needs reform anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It makes such a good point, guys, it's wonderful to
talk to you. Thank you so much. Clear to lord
journalists than Thomas Scrimger maximums too.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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