May 28, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union and Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Government's latest OCR update was delivered this afternoon - what did we think of it? Are we getting dangerously close to 'stagflation' territory?
Should we stop contributing so much to MPs' KiwiSavers?
Movie theatres are seeing a revenue decline - do you still go to the movies?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Fink you're.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
One of the kind huddle this evening. Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union,
Jack Tame, host of Q and A and Saturday Mornings
High Lads, Jack, Jordan the ocr is it about right.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah, it was certainly, I mean it was five to
one vote, but it was in line with expectations. I
thought that the most significant thing was how much more
pessimistic the Reserve bankers and compared to Treasury's numbers last
week in the budget economic update around projected growth. I mean,
(00:38):
Treasury have to put their numbers to bed back in April,
but that would suggests that the government's books are going
to be it's going to be even harder to hit
this sort of non surplus and under the Nicola Willis's
pretend new measure on what a surplus is in twenty
twenty nine. I think that's the main one. Around the
(01:00):
inflationary expectations. It seems that it's just that the talk
of all the news of highering higher prices in the
US seems to be flying through the year. It seems
to be perception not reality.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, that's what I took away from it as well.
Jack was just how stuff the economy is in Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And it just sort of feels like progress is there,
but it's just incredibly slow and kind of barely measures
at the moment, like yep, yeah, yeah, we know things
are improving, but you know, the whole survive to twenty
five has been pushed back almost as far as Nicola
willis as surpluses. I mean, I thought it was a
pretty straight back today. You know that the uncertainty in
(01:36):
the US is obviously kind of has the potential to
throw a spanner in the works for gross projections and
also all sorts of other metrics in the months and
years to come. But yeah, I just think we are
not out of the woods yet. We're still in a
pretty vulnerable position. And yeah, that return to surplus and
you know, sustained period of really healthy economic growth still
(01:57):
looks a long long way away.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah very much. Yeah, go go Jordan.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Oh there's a really good interview. I mean it certainly
wasn't Tame Jack on Sunday on growth and the very
poor growth numbers of you know, clearly not catching up
with Australia that Jack did, and I can't.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Get past what you just called him as he and
nick name for him.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, well, I mean the great thing about that this
is like I know we're supposed to be talking about
movies later, but it's cap cool viewing because the thing
is is you just stay so calm and gently sort
of through it. And normally we're used to sort of
seeing media and clearly on this show, but you know,
listening and watching media interviews where the interviewer is getting
progressively more aggressive and worked up, whereas Jack, you just
(02:42):
sort of was so calm and it might have been
because you had a cold that I think I've now
picked up is and it's Nichola willis getting progressively more upset. Jack.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Did you have a cold because I thought you had
a cold as well.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Oh yeah, I had a really bad cold last week. Honestly,
Thank goodness, was soudo ephodrine. It's really changed.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
A legal why is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Well, but it does make you feel a little like
take it this way, I can see how they make
meth out of it, like I was then yeah, yeah,
but I was yeah yeah, I mean, I just it
is curious, right to get all this language about growth, growth, growth,
and you know, if if you look at those growth forecasts,
and I think we can all agree that growth forecasting
is a bit tricky at the best of times and
(03:26):
generally not super accurate, but all those growth forecasts over
the last eighteen months have have kind of consistently deteriorated.
Whether it's a reserve bank or or the government. You
look at the borrowing rates. I mean they say the
previous government was addicted to spending. You look at you know,
look at the discovernments on borrow Well, if you look
(03:47):
at you know, I'm always interested in separating language from fact,
then you know it's yeah, yeah, And that's not to
say we don't want to see economic growth, but you
know that that I think today's data has kind of
underscored things. Once again, it's a long way off.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
All right, we'll take a back, come back shortly.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary
results with unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Right, you're back with a huddle, Jacktam Jordan Williams with
us now the Taxpayer's Union. Jordan Williams is outfit has
released something that you might be interested in. Okay, so
you know your Keiwi savers being tinkered with the government's
taking money off it will get a load of what
happens to MP's. MPs can contribute up to eight percent
of their pay and the taxpayer you and I will
contribute twenty percent. So it can be for a back
(04:31):
bench you paid one hundred and seventy thousand as much
as thirty four thousand dollars a year that we're chucking
in this in their Kiwi savers. Jordan, that's outrageous, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We just said what's good for the goose is good
for the gander, and I see that all the MP's
have said, oh, this is outrageous. You know, it's independently
said and stuff like that. Look, reasonable minds can differ
on how much you should pay in peas because the
can be an argument that you want to pay to
get the best and brightest and all that sort of thing. Okay,
so let's get out of the way. But it's about transparency.
You know, you google how much is a back any
an MP paid. It's about one hundred and seventy But
(05:02):
then of course the public find out that, oh, well,
there's the other thirty four thousand for the super and
there's the other thirty six thousand tax free for the
expense allowance for clothing and for luggage and things like that.
And there's the other forty old grand for the accommodation subsidy.
What we say is it shot?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Look do it like.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Anyone else would do it? No one in there will
be half a million people listening to the show. They
were the only people listening that get thirty four thousand
dollars from their employer to go into the Kiwi Saber
or the RMPS. That's that's crooked.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Would you go so far as saying crooked?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, it's not true, it's maybe it's not correct. I'm
not suggesting that for a moment, but it is. It's
come on, put it this way.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Can I jump in and help howl about Jordan here?
I work in a job where my role is to
hold your powerful pace and powerful polishings to account, and
I'm embarrassed to say that until this story came out,
I had absolutely no idea that MP's benefited from this perk.
Now I'm one that thinks that MP's should be paid. Well,
I think we want talented people to be representing us
(06:14):
in Parliament. But I had absolutely no idea that they
could claim this much money by contributing. And I think
it's like it's maxed out at a backbenchers thing, right,
So like, for example, the Prime Minister he gets the
maximum that the backbencher would get. He gets thirty four
as opposed to Yeah, right, But nonetheless it speaks to
the transparency points that's raising. Yes, I had no idea
(06:38):
about this, and so if I feel like, if I
don't know about this, then most New Zealanders an't going
to know about this.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Jordan. Here's the thing, right, if the best leaders are
people who do the same thing to themselves as they
ask of others, right, and these guys are not good leaders.
That's essentially what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Well, I mean this has sort of been a cozy
sort of thing since that this particular role goes back
to two thousand and three, and the remuneration Authority has
said time and time again on and we're not going
to review that, We're not going to touch that.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
What do you want them.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
To do, Jordan? Do you want them to take themselves
back to the same place the rest of us are.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
At exactly just set in a mound like stop all
these extra add ons, and the only reason they have
the add ons is to try to get the headline
amount low so they don't get grief. I've actually it's
a paper. I've wanted to do this for a decade,
and I need to sit down and write it. I'm
going to a theory, okay, and this is I say that genuinely.
Even the staff and the text BAIS Union disagree. You
(07:30):
can make it a principled argument we should pay loads.
You make a principal argument that we take the Swiss
model and pay nothing. Here's an idea. What about paying
the opportunity cost of being an MP. So you have
a floor like a minimum, but then cover like base
it on the previous five years earnings or whatever you
know taxtbill income. So if you give up a job
(07:52):
at a million bucks a year, that's what you get paid.
Because if the argument the problem is if you pay.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Still do get it.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
It's just an idea. I mean, it's not as I
say that the TU we actually can't agree what the
best way is.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
But I think you're complicated, Jordan. I think you're over
complicating it. These guys act they do it for they
don't do it for the money.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Wow, oh some of them. Some of them. I think
that you look at the they're on the best job,
they're ever ran. But it's not right that that as
I say, you google it one hundred and seventy year. K.
That's high, but you know they work hard whatever, But
it's not it's quarter of a million in any in
any other sort of measure.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Okay, Now, when was the last time, Jack that you
went to the movies?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I reckon a year ago.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's not bad. Would you go see isn't it?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh? I feel like I win. I saw a kids movie. Yes,
does it even count yet? Then? Well again, took up
mindaft last week.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I have to say to Jack, you know it'll be
your last one. I really had to think about it.
The last time I went to the movies, it was
when Emily was pregnant and it was down to Abbey.
It was more than five years ago. Oh yeah, it's
just it really took me a long time to think about.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
What are you doing? No screen time? And that's a
gigantic screen.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The thing is TV. I think that it's the reaiscence
of really good TV. Now you look at the big
budget sort of Netflix serieses and stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's where entertain It's yep. I'm with you. Okay, guys,
listen to Lovely Talk to the pair of you go Jack,
you go get better, Jordan, Thank you for your time, Jack,
Tam Jordan Williams.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Fink you're.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
One of the kind huddle this evening. Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union,
Jack Tame, host of Q and A and Saturday Mornings
High Lads, Jack, Jordan the ocr is it about right.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah, it was certainly, I mean it was five to
one vote, but it was in line with expectations. I
thought that the most significant thing was how much more
pessimistic the Reserve bankers and compared to Treasury's numbers last
week in the budget economic update around projected growth. I mean,
(00:38):
Treasury have to put their numbers to bed back in April,
but that would suggests that the government's books are going
to be it's going to be even harder to hit
this sort of non surplus and under the Nicola Willis's
pretend new measure on what a surplus is in twenty
twenty nine. I think that's the main one. Around the
(01:00):
inflationary expectations. It seems that it's just that the talk
of all the news of highering higher prices in the
US seems to be flying through the year. It seems
to be perception not reality.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, that's what I took away from it as well.
Jack was just how stuff the economy is in Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And it just sort of feels like progress is there,
but it's just incredibly slow and kind of barely measures
at the moment, like yep, yeah, yeah, we know things
are improving, but you know, the whole survive to twenty
five has been pushed back almost as far as Nicola
willis as surpluses. I mean, I thought it was a
pretty straight back today. You know that the uncertainty in
(01:36):
the US is obviously kind of has the potential to
throw a spanner in the works for gross projections and
also all sorts of other metrics in the months and
years to come. But yeah, I just think we are
not out of the woods yet. We're still in a
pretty vulnerable position. And yeah, that return to surplus and
you know, sustained period of really healthy economic growth still
(01:57):
looks a long long way away.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah very much. Yeah, go go Jordan.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Oh there's a really good interview. I mean it certainly
wasn't Tame Jack on Sunday on growth and the very
poor growth numbers of you know, clearly not catching up
with Australia that Jack did, and I can't.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Get past what you just called him as he and
nick name for him.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, well, I mean the great thing about that this
is like I know we're supposed to be talking about
movies later, but it's cap cool viewing because the thing
is is you just stay so calm and gently sort
of through it. And normally we're used to sort of
seeing media and clearly on this show, but you know,
listening and watching media interviews where the interviewer is getting
progressively more aggressive and worked up, whereas Jack, you just
(02:42):
sort of was so calm and it might have been
because you had a cold that I think I've now
picked up is and it's Nichola willis getting progressively more upset. Jack.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Did you have a cold because I thought you had
a cold as well.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Oh yeah, I had a really bad cold last week. Honestly,
Thank goodness, was soudo ephodrine. It's really changed.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
A legal why is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Well, but it does make you feel a little like
take it this way, I can see how they make
meth out of it, like I was then yeah, yeah,
but I was yeah yeah, I mean, I just it
is curious, right to get all this language about growth, growth, growth,
and you know, if if you look at those growth forecasts,
and I think we can all agree that growth forecasting
is a bit tricky at the best of times and
(03:26):
generally not super accurate, but all those growth forecasts over
the last eighteen months have have kind of consistently deteriorated.
Whether it's a reserve bank or or the government. You
look at the borrowing rates. I mean they say the
previous government was addicted to spending. You look at you know,
look at the discovernments on borrow Well, if you look
(03:47):
at you know, I'm always interested in separating language from fact,
then you know it's yeah, yeah, And that's not to
say we don't want to see economic growth, but you
know that that I think today's data has kind of
underscored things. Once again, it's a long way off.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
All right, we'll take a back, come back shortly.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary
results with unparallel reach.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Right, you're back with a huddle, Jacktam Jordan Williams with
us now the Taxpayer's Union. Jordan Williams is outfit has
released something that you might be interested in. Okay, so
you know your Keiwi savers being tinkered with the government's
taking money off it will get a load of what
happens to MP's. MPs can contribute up to eight percent
of their pay and the taxpayer you and I will
contribute twenty percent. So it can be for a back
(04:31):
bench you paid one hundred and seventy thousand as much
as thirty four thousand dollars a year that we're chucking
in this in their Kiwi savers. Jordan, that's outrageous, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We just said what's good for the goose is good
for the gander, and I see that all the MP's
have said, oh, this is outrageous. You know, it's independently
said and stuff like that. Look, reasonable minds can differ
on how much you should pay in peas because the
can be an argument that you want to pay to
get the best and brightest and all that sort of thing. Okay,
so let's get out of the way. But it's about transparency.
You know, you google how much is a back any
an MP paid. It's about one hundred and seventy But
(05:02):
then of course the public find out that, oh, well,
there's the other thirty four thousand for the super and
there's the other thirty six thousand tax free for the
expense allowance for clothing and for luggage and things like that.
And there's the other forty old grand for the accommodation subsidy.
What we say is it shot?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Look do it like.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Anyone else would do it? No one in there will
be half a million people listening to the show. They
were the only people listening that get thirty four thousand
dollars from their employer to go into the Kiwi Saber
or the RMPS. That's that's crooked.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Would you go so far as saying crooked?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, it's not true, it's maybe it's not correct. I'm
not suggesting that for a moment, but it is. It's
come on, put it this way.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Can I jump in and help howl about Jordan here?
I work in a job where my role is to
hold your powerful pace and powerful polishings to account, and
I'm embarrassed to say that until this story came out,
I had absolutely no idea that MP's benefited from this perk.
Now I'm one that thinks that MP's should be paid. Well,
I think we want talented people to be representing us
(06:14):
in Parliament. But I had absolutely no idea that they
could claim this much money by contributing. And I think
it's like it's maxed out at a backbenchers thing, right,
So like, for example, the Prime Minister he gets the
maximum that the backbencher would get. He gets thirty four
as opposed to Yeah, right, But nonetheless it speaks to
the transparency points that's raising. Yes, I had no idea
(06:38):
about this, and so if I feel like, if I
don't know about this, then most New Zealanders an't going
to know about this.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Jordan. Here's the thing, right, if the best leaders are
people who do the same thing to themselves as they
ask of others, right, and these guys are not good leaders.
That's essentially what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Well, I mean this has sort of been a cozy
sort of thing since that this particular role goes back
to two thousand and three, and the remuneration Authority has
said time and time again on and we're not going
to review that, We're not going to touch that.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
What do you want them.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
To do, Jordan? Do you want them to take themselves
back to the same place the rest of us are.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
At exactly just set in a mound like stop all
these extra add ons, and the only reason they have
the add ons is to try to get the headline
amount low so they don't get grief. I've actually it's
a paper. I've wanted to do this for a decade,
and I need to sit down and write it. I'm
going to a theory, okay, and this is I say that genuinely.
Even the staff and the text BAIS Union disagree. You
(07:30):
can make it a principled argument we should pay loads.
You make a principal argument that we take the Swiss
model and pay nothing. Here's an idea. What about paying
the opportunity cost of being an MP. So you have
a floor like a minimum, but then cover like base
it on the previous five years earnings or whatever you
know taxtbill income. So if you give up a job
(07:52):
at a million bucks a year, that's what you get paid.
Because if the argument the problem is if you pay.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Still do get it.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
It's just an idea. I mean, it's not as I
say that the TU we actually can't agree what the
best way is.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
But I think you're complicated, Jordan. I think you're over
complicating it. These guys act they do it for they
don't do it for the money.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Wow, oh some of them. Some of them. I think
that you look at the they're on the best job,
they're ever ran. But it's not right that that as
I say, you google it one hundred and seventy year. K.
That's high, but you know they work hard whatever, But
it's not it's quarter of a million in any in
any other sort of measure.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Okay, Now, when was the last time, Jack that you
went to the movies?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I reckon a year ago.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's not bad. Would you go see isn't it?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh? I feel like I win. I saw a kids movie. Yes,
does it even count yet? Then? Well again, took up
mindaft last week.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I have to say to Jack, you know it'll be
your last one. I really had to think about it.
The last time I went to the movies, it was
when Emily was pregnant and it was down to Abbey.
It was more than five years ago. Oh yeah, it's
just it really took me a long time to think about.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
What are you doing? No screen time? And that's a
gigantic screen.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The thing is TV. I think that it's the reaiscence
of really good TV. Now you look at the big
budget sort of Netflix serieses and stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's where entertain It's yep. I'm with you. Okay, guys,
listen to Lovely Talk to the pair of you go Jack,
you go get better, Jordan, Thank you for your time, Jack,
Tam Jordan Williams.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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