June 19, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland councillor Maurice Williamson and Wellbeing Economy Alliance director Gareth Hughes joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Farmers are up in arms over new changes to the FBT that could potentially impact ute owners. What do we make of this? Do we see the Government changing this?
Was it a mistake for New Zealand to pull funding for the Cook Islands? How bad do the optics look here?
Shane Jones is floating the idea of getting rid of regional Government altogether. Is this a good idea?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Morris Williams and Auckland councilor, former National Party minister and
Gareth Hugh's director of the Well Being Economy Alliance outside
Away and former Green MP. High lads.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Sure that.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's a little bit of a bit of policy on
the hoof, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Look at you, I'm one of these sort of old, crusty,
old buggers who've seen so many things come and go.
When I see certain things announced like coming out of
id and I just smile and say, this will never stand.
This will never stand. National made such a song and
dance about the yut tax and the campaigned up and.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Down and you know what, Yes, I agree with you.
But then why is Simon what's doing stuff like this
because he instructed them? Why?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, look, there's some things in the world I can't explain,
and that's one of them.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Gareth, Gareth, you, being from the Green Party, you've always
got a kind of slightly cock eyed view of tax.
So tell me what you think of it.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Well, Morris is right. I mean National was really at
risk of being hoisted by their own patad. They made
such a big song that darn't about this. Previously, the
biggest issue with so many farmers seem to think that
ut exempt from fringe benefit tax, so it's a bit
of a wake up call. Of course, the government was
always going to respond with alacrity on this, and you know,
I think farmers will be pretty happy with it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hey, now, what do you make Gareth of Winston Peter's
pulling that funding from the Cooks.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's interesting. I mean it's terrible timing for the government,
with lux and literally meeting she in Beijing at the moment.
You know this is going to dominate the talks, and
there's a perception that Peters could be trying to torpedo
the talks. There's no surprises very much in the American camp. However,
there's the story that this actually started out earlier this month.
It's the Cook Island government themselves who have made it
(01:39):
public again. It's bad time and bad optics. I don't
think it's ideal that New Zealand's linking our aid to
great power politics. It's clear that the Cooks themselves are
pretty upset about this, and the film feels a little
bit colonial to me, New Zealand playing great power politics
here with our aid budget.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Okay, Morris, what do you think, Well, I take the
analogy of what happened with my kids when they went
through teenage years and into their twenties. Their attitude was,
it's my money, I'll do what I want with it. Now,
can you lend me some? And neces the same with
the Cooks if they want to be independent and go
away and negotiate all sorts of things with other countries
(02:20):
and not tell us what they're doing, which they're supposed
to evently in their chart that they sign. Well, Winston's
doing the right thing. He's saying, well that, look, we
can't stop you where you go, but that doesn't mean
we have to be the funder of last resort for
you anymore. We can just say no. And so they
have to put that into the equation of the Cooks
think it was worth losing the what is nineteen point
(02:40):
eight million they're going to lose. If they think it
was worth losing that because it may be getting phenomenal
money back from China, well good on them. They're free
to go and do what they like.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, if I tend to agree with Morris on this
because I think that we can take a bit of
a paternalistic and I feel like that, you know, no
disrespect to you, but I feel like you might have
been a bit paternalistic there where our attitude towards small
and like the Cooks as always Oh well, you know,
they can kind of behave however they want and we
just have to kind of sit there and suck it
up and carry on with the funding. Actually it takes
two to tango, and it doesn't sound like they've been awesome.
(03:10):
So isn't it within our rights to pull the money?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh? I think they feel a bit grieve too. I mean,
the Prime min is going to come back to China
presumably signing deals or doing deals. Are we going to
be updating the Cook Island government around that? But you know,
there is a strategic contest in the Pacific. You go
to any Pacific state, China is investing a huge amount.
That's clear to everyone. I just think, you know, if
we want to have our strategic conterest that serve them
(03:34):
the Pacific, we're best to use carrots, use our special relationship,
use the people connections, good faith, hones, stealings. You can't
make friends by pulling out a stick, and I think
that's the riskers. You know, this could even push the
Cook Islands more and relationships that will happen.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Do you think that will really happen given that it
doesn't what Mark Brown wants doesn't sound like what the
people want. And twenty million dollars and insignificance when you
think about the fact that they have they have our passports,
they have access to the country to live and work in,
they have our superannuation. Surely that's still a massive carrot there.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Oh, look, this has to be dealt with, and it
has to be dealt with well. But if we're doing threats,
if we're pausing aid, you know, there's a risk of
permanently damaging relationships. And look, China can afford a lot
more than New Zealand can. We're best to play to
ours strengths rather than try and be aggressive.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But if they some their nose at us, if they
thumb their nose at us and so well, damn we're
going off and doing something with them and we don't care.
We're supposed to have alerted you or talked it through
it with you. That's fine. Wait, off you go a
naughty child. Way you go do your own thing, but
don't come calling back to home and saying I want
some more. They've had two hundred million in the last
three years for God's sake from us. That's an enormous
amount of money they've had. Well, if they don't want
(04:49):
to thumb their noose at that and say we've got
a better deal elsewhere, that's fine, but which just means
we don't have to play their silly game.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
All right, we'll take a break. Come back shortly quarter two. Hey,
really quickly. A hospital in southern Israel has been hit
by an Iranian missile. It's taking a direct hit. This
is a hospital in Beersheba. Not good for Israel to
have that happen, as you can well imagine. Also, I'm
going to tell you about that age test in just
a minute. Right now, we've got the huddle back of us,
(05:15):
Morris Williamson and Gareth Hughes. Now, Gareth, how would you
feel about us getting rid of regional government?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Oh, I'm not a fan. I think we should be
boosting local government. We've got one of the most centralized
government systems in the world. Central government gets about ninety
one percent of the revenue. Local government gets about nine percent.
I think that's out of whack, But I thing he's
what he's talking about. Is should we see more amalgamations.
Definitely open to that. I think we've got way too
many councils duplicating way too many things.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
What do you think, Marris, Oh, look absolutely, Look we've
got the Hiranui District Council, the Apotoqui District council sits
at eight thousand ratepayers or something in each of them.
If you think back a few years long before you
two were around, but Auckland when I was young, had
thirty two councils. You know, there was the Newmarket Borough Council,
(06:04):
there was the Mount Albert Borough Council, the Mount Edenborough
Council now Michael Bassett in nineteen eighty nine merged them
into seven. It was a good start and in the
right direction, and in twenty ten we moved to more
than to one. I would have thought that what Shane
is talking about is let's get rid of all of
the little fragmentation. And they had a reason back then
(06:25):
many years ago, because communications were appalling. You had to
send a letter and it had to be delivered. Now
they can be online with screen showing data, they can
be in communications while they're on the road talking. I
think we've got far, far too many local government entities
and the more we did some amalgamations right across the board,
the whole of the South part of Wellington with the
(06:47):
Wire Rapper and Wellington should all be just one council in.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
My view, I mean, because Gareth, don't we have too
few people really to have the number of councils that
we have.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, I think that's a genuine question. And you know,
I live in Welling and I would support greater amalgamation
in the region. We've got way too much duplication happening.
But I wonder what Shane Jones. You know, I was
at the event last night where he gave these remarks.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
He's all talk.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Oh he's no shrinking violent, that's for sure, and you
know you could see he was in competition with David
to get the headline.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I said this to her husband this morning. When I
read it, I said, oh, yeah, but it's from Shane.
What have they actually achieved? What has New Zealanders all
blah blah? But they actually don't do anything when they're
in government, do they.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And look, I'm not Shane's biggest fan, but he did
talk about the idea of central government sharing some more
GST revenue with local government. I absolutely support that, but
they didn't put that in their confidence and agreement with
the government. You know, they talk about it, they haven't
achieved it, and hopefully that is.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
But if you think about it, the exact opposite will
still give you the outcome. Instead of going and getting
rid of the regional councils and leaving a whole lot
of tin bot little rotten boroughs, merge them up all
across I reckon thirty and or forteen councils across the
entire country. We're only five million people. Yeah, that's a
modest city anywhere else in the world. Our whole country
is a lot of city.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Auckland has done the amalgamation. But now we've got all
the little wards, haven't we with like five people voting
for somebody Morris, can't we get rid of all those wards?
Just leave you fellows in charge accouncil.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, my my ward's bigger. Listen to this, My howick
ward that I am standing for is bigger population than
any other city in New Zealand other than Wellington and
christ Church. We're bigger than Toweronger, We're bigger than Hamilton,
we're bigger than Nelson. Any city you name, howick Ward
where there's only two counselors, is bigger than them.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Jason. That says a lot, doesn't it. Hey, guys, thank
you very much, really appreciated Morris, Williamson and Garrethus a
huddle sitting I was meant and getting rid of the
ward councils. You know those guys you don't even know,
you don't even know that they're sitting under the council.
It's like five people the local boards. Thank you, thank
you ants. That's the word I'm looking for. The local
boards and needs to get rid of them because some
really interesting people on those local boards drawing a salary
(08:57):
from us doing nothing. Nine Away from six.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk Set B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Morris Williams and Auckland councilor, former National Party minister and
Gareth Hugh's director of the Well Being Economy Alliance outside
Away and former Green MP. High lads.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Sure that.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's a little bit of a bit of policy on
the hoof, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Look at you, I'm one of these sort of old, crusty,
old buggers who've seen so many things come and go.
When I see certain things announced like coming out of
id and I just smile and say, this will never stand.
This will never stand. National made such a song and
dance about the yut tax and the campaigned up and.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Down and you know what, Yes, I agree with you.
But then why is Simon what's doing stuff like this
because he instructed them? Why?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, look, there's some things in the world I can't explain,
and that's one of them.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Gareth, Gareth, you, being from the Green Party, you've always
got a kind of slightly cock eyed view of tax.
So tell me what you think of it.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Well, Morris is right. I mean National was really at
risk of being hoisted by their own patad. They made
such a big song that darn't about this. Previously, the
biggest issue with so many farmers seem to think that
ut exempt from fringe benefit tax, so it's a bit
of a wake up call. Of course, the government was
always going to respond with alacrity on this, and you know,
I think farmers will be pretty happy with it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hey, now, what do you make Gareth of Winston Peter's
pulling that funding from the Cooks.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's interesting. I mean it's terrible timing for the government,
with lux and literally meeting she in Beijing at the moment.
You know this is going to dominate the talks, and
there's a perception that Peters could be trying to torpedo
the talks. There's no surprises very much in the American camp. However,
there's the story that this actually started out earlier this month.
It's the Cook Island government themselves who have made it
(01:39):
public again. It's bad time and bad optics. I don't
think it's ideal that New Zealand's linking our aid to
great power politics. It's clear that the Cooks themselves are
pretty upset about this, and the film feels a little
bit colonial to me, New Zealand playing great power politics
here with our aid budget.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Okay, Morris, what do you think, Well, I take the
analogy of what happened with my kids when they went
through teenage years and into their twenties. Their attitude was,
it's my money, I'll do what I want with it. Now,
can you lend me some? And neces the same with
the Cooks if they want to be independent and go
away and negotiate all sorts of things with other countries
(02:20):
and not tell us what they're doing, which they're supposed
to evently in their chart that they sign. Well, Winston's
doing the right thing. He's saying, well that, look, we
can't stop you where you go, but that doesn't mean
we have to be the funder of last resort for
you anymore. We can just say no. And so they
have to put that into the equation of the Cooks
think it was worth losing the what is nineteen point
(02:40):
eight million they're going to lose. If they think it
was worth losing that because it may be getting phenomenal
money back from China, well good on them. They're free
to go and do what they like.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, if I tend to agree with Morris on this
because I think that we can take a bit of
a paternalistic and I feel like that, you know, no
disrespect to you, but I feel like you might have
been a bit paternalistic there where our attitude towards small
and like the Cooks as always Oh well, you know,
they can kind of behave however they want and we
just have to kind of sit there and suck it
up and carry on with the funding. Actually it takes
two to tango, and it doesn't sound like they've been awesome.
(03:10):
So isn't it within our rights to pull the money?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh? I think they feel a bit grieve too. I mean,
the Prime min is going to come back to China
presumably signing deals or doing deals. Are we going to
be updating the Cook Island government around that? But you know,
there is a strategic contest in the Pacific. You go
to any Pacific state, China is investing a huge amount.
That's clear to everyone. I just think, you know, if
we want to have our strategic conterest that serve them
(03:34):
the Pacific, we're best to use carrots, use our special relationship,
use the people connections, good faith, hones, stealings. You can't
make friends by pulling out a stick, and I think
that's the riskers. You know, this could even push the
Cook Islands more and relationships that will happen.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Do you think that will really happen given that it
doesn't what Mark Brown wants doesn't sound like what the
people want. And twenty million dollars and insignificance when you
think about the fact that they have they have our passports,
they have access to the country to live and work in,
they have our superannuation. Surely that's still a massive carrot there.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Oh, look, this has to be dealt with, and it
has to be dealt with well. But if we're doing threats,
if we're pausing aid, you know, there's a risk of
permanently damaging relationships. And look, China can afford a lot
more than New Zealand can. We're best to play to
ours strengths rather than try and be aggressive.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But if they some their nose at us, if they
thumb their nose at us and so well, damn we're
going off and doing something with them and we don't care.
We're supposed to have alerted you or talked it through
it with you. That's fine. Wait, off you go a
naughty child. Way you go do your own thing, but
don't come calling back to home and saying I want
some more. They've had two hundred million in the last
three years for God's sake from us. That's an enormous
amount of money they've had. Well, if they don't want
(04:49):
to thumb their noose at that and say we've got
a better deal elsewhere, that's fine, but which just means
we don't have to play their silly game.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
All right, we'll take a break. Come back shortly quarter two. Hey,
really quickly. A hospital in southern Israel has been hit
by an Iranian missile. It's taking a direct hit. This
is a hospital in Beersheba. Not good for Israel to
have that happen, as you can well imagine. Also, I'm
going to tell you about that age test in just
a minute. Right now, we've got the huddle back of us,
(05:15):
Morris Williamson and Gareth Hughes. Now, Gareth, how would you
feel about us getting rid of regional government?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Oh, I'm not a fan. I think we should be
boosting local government. We've got one of the most centralized
government systems in the world. Central government gets about ninety
one percent of the revenue. Local government gets about nine percent.
I think that's out of whack, But I thing he's
what he's talking about. Is should we see more amalgamations.
Definitely open to that. I think we've got way too
many councils duplicating way too many things.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
What do you think, Marris, Oh, look absolutely, Look we've
got the Hiranui District Council, the Apotoqui District council sits
at eight thousand ratepayers or something in each of them.
If you think back a few years long before you
two were around, but Auckland when I was young, had
thirty two councils. You know, there was the Newmarket Borough Council,
(06:04):
there was the Mount Albert Borough Council, the Mount Edenborough
Council now Michael Bassett in nineteen eighty nine merged them
into seven. It was a good start and in the
right direction, and in twenty ten we moved to more
than to one. I would have thought that what Shane
is talking about is let's get rid of all of
the little fragmentation. And they had a reason back then
(06:25):
many years ago, because communications were appalling. You had to
send a letter and it had to be delivered. Now
they can be online with screen showing data, they can
be in communications while they're on the road talking. I
think we've got far, far too many local government entities
and the more we did some amalgamations right across the board,
the whole of the South part of Wellington with the
(06:47):
Wire Rapper and Wellington should all be just one council in.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
My view, I mean, because Gareth, don't we have too
few people really to have the number of councils that
we have.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, I think that's a genuine question. And you know,
I live in Welling and I would support greater amalgamation
in the region. We've got way too much duplication happening.
But I wonder what Shane Jones. You know, I was
at the event last night where he gave these remarks.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
He's all talk.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Oh he's no shrinking violent, that's for sure, and you
know you could see he was in competition with David
to get the headline.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I said this to her husband this morning. When I
read it, I said, oh, yeah, but it's from Shane.
What have they actually achieved? What has New Zealanders all
blah blah? But they actually don't do anything when they're
in government, do they.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And look, I'm not Shane's biggest fan, but he did
talk about the idea of central government sharing some more
GST revenue with local government. I absolutely support that, but
they didn't put that in their confidence and agreement with
the government. You know, they talk about it, they haven't
achieved it, and hopefully that is.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
But if you think about it, the exact opposite will
still give you the outcome. Instead of going and getting
rid of the regional councils and leaving a whole lot
of tin bot little rotten boroughs, merge them up all
across I reckon thirty and or forteen councils across the
entire country. We're only five million people. Yeah, that's a
modest city anywhere else in the world. Our whole country
is a lot of city.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Auckland has done the amalgamation. But now we've got all
the little wards, haven't we with like five people voting
for somebody Morris, can't we get rid of all those wards?
Just leave you fellows in charge accouncil.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, my my ward's bigger. Listen to this, My howick
ward that I am standing for is bigger population than
any other city in New Zealand other than Wellington and
christ Church. We're bigger than Toweronger, We're bigger than Hamilton,
we're bigger than Nelson. Any city you name, howick Ward
where there's only two counselors, is bigger than them.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Jason. That says a lot, doesn't it. Hey, guys, thank
you very much, really appreciated Morris, Williamson and Garrethus a
huddle sitting I was meant and getting rid of the
ward councils. You know those guys you don't even know,
you don't even know that they're sitting under the council.
It's like five people the local boards. Thank you, thank
you ants. That's the word I'm looking for. The local
boards and needs to get rid of them because some
really interesting people on those local boards drawing a salary
(08:57):
from us doing nothing. Nine Away from six.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk Set B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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