November 5, 2025 • 11 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, political commentator and lawyer Liam Hehir and Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Zohran Mamdani is the new mayor of New York. He built his campaign on appealing to young and working-class voters - what does this say about the future of American politics?
The Government will be cracking down on rough sleepers in some form - the details are still unknown. Do we think this is the right move?
The Police Commissioner has written an op-ed to explain that Stuff shouldn't have published audio from the Tom Phillips case - but they're not taking legal action. What do we make of this?
The Government wants Eden Park to host more concerts and events. Do we agree with this?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's coming up twenty away.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
From six The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty,
the global leader in luxury real estate.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
On the Huddle of Us.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
This evening, we have Liam here, political commentator and lawyer,
and Jack Tame, host of Q and A and Saturday
Mornings on z B.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
High Lads, good evening, Liam.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You been following this race in New York.
Speaker 5 (00:20):
Only tangentially, of course, I mean we all, you know,
like to watch American politics. It's a bit removed, but yeah,
like I've probably a little bit less reading, a little
bit less into a New York voting for the Democrat candidate.
Then you're a journal as well.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Do you not.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
See those huge disappointment coming for his voters given what
Catherine just said? But then potentially maybe that doesn't matter
because maybe like Trump, he it's what he represents rather
than what he delivers.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
This. Yeah, I think that's right. You know, this is
the era of politics we have moved into. Politics is
more like professional wrestling. Then there's a statesmanship, you know,
like we all know that it's fake. It's performative.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, what would you agree with?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Yeah, it's also like just a repudiation of status quo.
A like, it's actually in the same way that there
was there were kind of a lot of things between
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump that were comparable. I think
with Mandani and Donald Trump, there are too just a
lot of his supporters like, you know what, the system
is screwing me. I'm sick of this. I'm going to
vote for a candidate who's going to blow up the system.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, fair point.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Like Donald Trump is the is the anti system guy,
and man Damie is the anti Donald Trump guy, and
it just keeps going around around. Liam doesn't sound to
you like the government is working on something, but it's
not a ban on rough sleepers, and it's more like
a ban on their bad behavior.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Yeah. Well, I mean you can't actually ban people for
being homeless and they don't have a home to go to, right,
and any shouldn't either, Right. It's you shouldn't penalize people
for being poor. But you can always penalize people, or
you can always have expectations for everyone about what they
actually do. And and you know, it's a hard one
(02:00):
for me, Like I try to think, you know, what,
what does what does Christian compassion look like? In this
sort of scenario. But at the same time, compassion doesn't mean,
you know, putting up with the civic squalor that's not
compassionate to anybody. It makes everything more difficult, including for
those who who are sleeping RUSS through the unavoidable need.
What it would sucking tho is that you know, if
(02:23):
you if you are going to go down this route
of punishing that behavior, you actually do need an outlet
to move people along to that it's not prison. And
you know, I think the fact that we have to
do this is just this huge validation of the idea
that actually the institutionalization of mental health and addiction it's
(02:43):
just a complete failure, you know, And so you need
to have those alternatives. But those alternatives might not be
as nice as we like.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, I mean, it ultimately does end up no matter
whether you call it jack, a ban on homelessness or
a band on their behavior, it ends up with the
same point, which is that you move them along.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And where do you move them along?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Too? Yeah? Yeah, And that's a tricky question. I mean,
if I was a business owner and the CBD and
you saw all this antisocial behavior outside your door, you
would just be so frustrated by it. Would you like,
as compassionate as you tried to be, it would drive
you absolutely nuts. But you know, the police officers I
know certainly don't want to be spending their time going
and moving rough sleeps off the street. And you know,
(03:23):
as far as I'm concerned, the threat of punishment probably
isn't going to be a big motivating factor. If you're
the kind of person who is sadly living your life
like that, the threat of getting a conviction or a
couple of nights in the cells or something like that
probably isn't going to move you along. I reckon maybe
there's some alternative vision whereby if we are able to
better support, like quite big intervention services to go and
(03:46):
support these people are moving away from the CBD, then
that might be the best option as opposed to just
a slap on the risk.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Now here's a question though, Okay, so Liam, if what
we're going to do is crack down on their anti
social behavior and their drug taking and stuff, why aren't
we doing that already?
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Because it's not the current fashion, it's not the current
mode of looking at things. I mean, you know, not
to be too contentious, but I really I don't. I
don't agree with my good friend Jack here about the
idea that actually what's needed is more intensive welfare state,
because I think that actually people can can, given their
behavior and the standards that people live in, the environment
(04:23):
that people live in will actually you know, influence what
they perceived to be acceptable behavior or not, and it
reaches the point where you have the amount of squalor
and the lack of safety that sets the default, right,
it sets the expected standard of behavior so low that
it sort of feeds on itself and it creates itself.
(04:43):
So you know, like I said, I do think that actually,
you know, people will for self correct to an extent,
and for those who genuinely can't, it's not necessarily you know,
an unproven intervention in their lives to live their lives
for them. But it might be a return to more
psychiatric care and more sort of SODI or care for
(05:06):
people who genuinely look at for themselves, rather than just
leaving them freeze and endorse.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The Do you want to say anything here, No.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
I mean, yeah, I just think that if you're I
just think it's not a motivator. I just think that's saying, hey,
we're going to punish you for being outside isn't motivator.
And if you look at something like the Housing First program,
which basically says the number one thing you can do
to the kind of person who is living on the
streets or taking drugs on the streets is actually give
them a dependable roof over their head every night so
(05:36):
they know they don't have to do that, they know
they have a safe place to go to. That is
basically the most effective way you can try and into
vene and set them on a bit of path in life.
And so I think something like that is a bit option.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
All Right, We'll take a break, come back shortly the.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty. Find your one
of a kind.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Write you back with a huddle, Jack, tam Liam Here Jack,
what did you make of the police boss writing this
opinion in Peace on Stuff?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, First of all, good call not to prosecute them
in any way. I didn't think it was a great
call to publish that audio. I think there were alternative
options available, even just publishing a transcript with a better option.
That being said, I do have some sympathy for journos
who feel like there is a possibility that actually not
(06:22):
insufficient scrutiny is going to be placed on the police
about their decision making throughout the whole case. So I've
got some sympathy there. And finally, I'd say that if
you're cracking down on the traditional mainstream media for their
reporting of this, where's the crackdown on the social media platforms?
I mean, yeah, these are the companies acting with real
impunity where all of this privileged information goes up online,
(06:44):
all of this misinformation. So where's the crackdown on that?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, Liam, it's strong.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It feels to me like Richard Chambers is doing is
creating the streisand effects. We're the very thing that he
doesn't want us to listen to.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And talk about.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
He's just directed us to again when he could have just.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Let it go.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, I really questioned that prude of commenting on it.
You know, I get the fact that you know, you
might want to make clear that you know you haven't
done anything, but that's not because you are indifferent to
the law and you've made a reason decision not to
practice it in this case while getting a warning out there.
But you know the fact is that when you do
anything like this, it drifts, it drifts into theater, right,
(07:22):
you know, it's it's it's keeping it in the news,
it's and and it's drawing attention to the fact that actually,
you know, the police have a discretion to to exercise. Yes,
but they're doing it inconsistently, right or they set there
creating precedence and when they might do it again, you're
(07:44):
actually better off just if you're not going to do
it to say nothing, or to say as little as possible,
rather than to tip your hand to it. Because I've
really I've taken away a lot of the effectness of
the law. I think.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I think that's fair, all right, now, Jack, do
you think that if do you think that if Nick
Kurios beat Sablenka that it is damaging to women's sport
and demeaning.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
No, No, I think it's ludicrous. I love a bit
of a battle of the sexes from time to time,
like I love when the when the Silver Ferns played
the men's team, and I think back in the day,
like Susan Devoy plays her husband it was for a
bit of fun. It's great.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. Liam.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I live in the in the real world where Nick Kurios,
even though he's slabby and unfit, could probably beat her.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Yeah, I mean it's a it's a reality check a
little bit. I mean, you know, and I don't mean
that in a in an overly negative way. And I
remember when I was a kid, I've watching tennis and
the ninety eight cars and Brash played the Williams sisters
and that, you know, and he was two huge and
eighths in the world and he beat them six one
six two, smoking while he was playing. And the lesson,
(08:54):
The lesson wasn't the Williams sisters weren't amazing. They were
The lesson is just a different game, right, It's a
women's tennis and men's tennis are different games. And I
like watching women's tennis. As I always say to my wife,
it's not for the reason you're thinking of. It's because
the rallies are longer, and you know, there's more baseline play.
It's just it's a different game. And it's not the
worst thing of li woul to be reminded of that
from time to time, that's fair point.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And it's just a bit of fun.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Oh can make things too serious, Hey Jack, how do
you feel about this idea of the government overruling the
council rules in Auckland and adding to Eden Park's concerts.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, I think if eden Park is going to be
the big stadium, then it has to be allowed to
have big and medium sized concert as simple as that.
I live close enough to eden Park that when they
have a big concert I can hear it. I think
if I was on night eleven of a fifteen night
Metallica extravaganza and they were playing to midnight every night,
I'll beginning about Do you know I'm not I'm actually
(09:49):
more of a system of a down guy. Yeah, yeah,
but no, I honestly think that's it. If eden Park
is going to be the stadium, it has to be
allowed to have the concert.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, would you come up for Metallica?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Liam, I'm not for Metallica. No, you know that's not me.
But can I just say I am very in favor
of the move simply because Hannah Clark blocked me on
Twitter and like, sorry, any anything to do? Then nothing?
I can't you know, I probably might. I probably gave
a very reasonable and correct critique of one of her
(10:24):
tweets and I got blocked for it. So anything that
annoys her, I'm now in favor of you.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
So, so she's the anti Eden Park and you're the
anti Helen.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Now, yeah, I think we should be forty major concerts
a year now.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, I'm down with that, guys, Thanks very much. Liam here, Jack,
tame Hudle. This evening, I'm going to Metallica. Oh I'm
not going alone.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The girls are going. It's our first.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, the girls are going to Metallica. We've just got haven't.
We just packed out calendar for the concert club.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news Talk sai'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
It's coming up twenty away.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
From six The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty,
the global leader in luxury real estate.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
On the Huddle of Us.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
This evening, we have Liam here, political commentator and lawyer,
and Jack Tame, host of Q and A and Saturday
Mornings on z B.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
High Lads, good evening, Liam.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You been following this race in New York.
Speaker 5 (00:20):
Only tangentially, of course, I mean we all, you know,
like to watch American politics. It's a bit removed, but yeah,
like I've probably a little bit less reading, a little
bit less into a New York voting for the Democrat candidate.
Then you're a journal as well.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Do you not.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
See those huge disappointment coming for his voters given what
Catherine just said? But then potentially maybe that doesn't matter
because maybe like Trump, he it's what he represents rather
than what he delivers.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
This. Yeah, I think that's right. You know, this is
the era of politics we have moved into. Politics is
more like professional wrestling. Then there's a statesmanship, you know,
like we all know that it's fake. It's performative.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, what would you agree with?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Yeah, it's also like just a repudiation of status quo.
A like, it's actually in the same way that there
was there were kind of a lot of things between
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump that were comparable. I think
with Mandani and Donald Trump, there are too just a
lot of his supporters like, you know what, the system
is screwing me. I'm sick of this. I'm going to
vote for a candidate who's going to blow up the system.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, fair point.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Like Donald Trump is the is the anti system guy,
and man Damie is the anti Donald Trump guy, and
it just keeps going around around. Liam doesn't sound to
you like the government is working on something, but it's
not a ban on rough sleepers, and it's more like
a ban on their bad behavior.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Yeah. Well, I mean you can't actually ban people for
being homeless and they don't have a home to go to, right,
and any shouldn't either, Right. It's you shouldn't penalize people
for being poor. But you can always penalize people, or
you can always have expectations for everyone about what they
actually do. And and you know, it's a hard one
(02:00):
for me, Like I try to think, you know, what,
what does what does Christian compassion look like? In this
sort of scenario. But at the same time, compassion doesn't mean,
you know, putting up with the civic squalor that's not
compassionate to anybody. It makes everything more difficult, including for
those who who are sleeping RUSS through the unavoidable need.
What it would sucking tho is that you know, if
(02:23):
you if you are going to go down this route
of punishing that behavior, you actually do need an outlet
to move people along to that it's not prison. And
you know, I think the fact that we have to
do this is just this huge validation of the idea
that actually the institutionalization of mental health and addiction it's
(02:43):
just a complete failure, you know, And so you need
to have those alternatives. But those alternatives might not be
as nice as we like.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, I mean, it ultimately does end up no matter
whether you call it jack, a ban on homelessness or
a band on their behavior, it ends up with the
same point, which is that you move them along.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And where do you move them along?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Too? Yeah? Yeah, And that's a tricky question. I mean,
if I was a business owner and the CBD and
you saw all this antisocial behavior outside your door, you
would just be so frustrated by it. Would you like,
as compassionate as you tried to be, it would drive
you absolutely nuts. But you know, the police officers I
know certainly don't want to be spending their time going
and moving rough sleeps off the street. And you know,
(03:23):
as far as I'm concerned, the threat of punishment probably
isn't going to be a big motivating factor. If you're
the kind of person who is sadly living your life
like that, the threat of getting a conviction or a
couple of nights in the cells or something like that
probably isn't going to move you along. I reckon maybe
there's some alternative vision whereby if we are able to
better support, like quite big intervention services to go and
(03:46):
support these people are moving away from the CBD, then
that might be the best option as opposed to just
a slap on the risk.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Now here's a question though, Okay, so Liam, if what
we're going to do is crack down on their anti
social behavior and their drug taking and stuff, why aren't
we doing that already?
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Because it's not the current fashion, it's not the current
mode of looking at things. I mean, you know, not
to be too contentious, but I really I don't. I
don't agree with my good friend Jack here about the
idea that actually what's needed is more intensive welfare state,
because I think that actually people can can, given their
behavior and the standards that people live in, the environment
(04:23):
that people live in will actually you know, influence what
they perceived to be acceptable behavior or not, and it
reaches the point where you have the amount of squalor
and the lack of safety that sets the default, right,
it sets the expected standard of behavior so low that
it sort of feeds on itself and it creates itself.
(04:43):
So you know, like I said, I do think that actually,
you know, people will for self correct to an extent,
and for those who genuinely can't, it's not necessarily you know,
an unproven intervention in their lives to live their lives
for them. But it might be a return to more
psychiatric care and more sort of SODI or care for
(05:06):
people who genuinely look at for themselves, rather than just
leaving them freeze and endorse.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The Do you want to say anything here, No.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
I mean, yeah, I just think that if you're I
just think it's not a motivator. I just think that's saying, hey,
we're going to punish you for being outside isn't motivator.
And if you look at something like the Housing First program,
which basically says the number one thing you can do
to the kind of person who is living on the
streets or taking drugs on the streets is actually give
them a dependable roof over their head every night so
(05:36):
they know they don't have to do that, they know
they have a safe place to go to. That is
basically the most effective way you can try and into
vene and set them on a bit of path in life.
And so I think something like that is a bit option.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
All Right, We'll take a break, come back shortly the.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty. Find your one
of a kind.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Write you back with a huddle, Jack, tam Liam Here Jack,
what did you make of the police boss writing this
opinion in Peace on Stuff?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, First of all, good call not to prosecute them
in any way. I didn't think it was a great
call to publish that audio. I think there were alternative
options available, even just publishing a transcript with a better option.
That being said, I do have some sympathy for journos
who feel like there is a possibility that actually not
(06:22):
insufficient scrutiny is going to be placed on the police
about their decision making throughout the whole case. So I've
got some sympathy there. And finally, I'd say that if
you're cracking down on the traditional mainstream media for their
reporting of this, where's the crackdown on the social media platforms?
I mean, yeah, these are the companies acting with real
impunity where all of this privileged information goes up online,
(06:44):
all of this misinformation. So where's the crackdown on that?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, Liam, it's strong.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It feels to me like Richard Chambers is doing is
creating the streisand effects. We're the very thing that he
doesn't want us to listen to.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And talk about.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
He's just directed us to again when he could have just.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Let it go.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, I really questioned that prude of commenting on it.
You know, I get the fact that you know, you
might want to make clear that you know you haven't
done anything, but that's not because you are indifferent to
the law and you've made a reason decision not to
practice it in this case while getting a warning out there.
But you know the fact is that when you do
anything like this, it drifts, it drifts into theater, right,
(07:22):
you know, it's it's it's keeping it in the news,
it's and and it's drawing attention to the fact that actually,
you know, the police have a discretion to to exercise. Yes,
but they're doing it inconsistently, right or they set there
creating precedence and when they might do it again, you're
(07:44):
actually better off just if you're not going to do
it to say nothing, or to say as little as possible,
rather than to tip your hand to it. Because I've
really I've taken away a lot of the effectness of
the law. I think.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I think that's fair, all right, now, Jack, do
you think that if do you think that if Nick
Kurios beat Sablenka that it is damaging to women's sport
and demeaning.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
No, No, I think it's ludicrous. I love a bit
of a battle of the sexes from time to time,
like I love when the when the Silver Ferns played
the men's team, and I think back in the day,
like Susan Devoy plays her husband it was for a
bit of fun. It's great.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. Liam.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I live in the in the real world where Nick Kurios,
even though he's slabby and unfit, could probably beat her.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Yeah, I mean it's a it's a reality check a
little bit. I mean, you know, and I don't mean
that in a in an overly negative way. And I
remember when I was a kid, I've watching tennis and
the ninety eight cars and Brash played the Williams sisters
and that, you know, and he was two huge and
eighths in the world and he beat them six one
six two, smoking while he was playing. And the lesson,
(08:54):
The lesson wasn't the Williams sisters weren't amazing. They were
The lesson is just a different game, right, It's a
women's tennis and men's tennis are different games. And I
like watching women's tennis. As I always say to my wife,
it's not for the reason you're thinking of. It's because
the rallies are longer, and you know, there's more baseline play.
It's just it's a different game. And it's not the
worst thing of li woul to be reminded of that
from time to time, that's fair point.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And it's just a bit of fun.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Oh can make things too serious, Hey Jack, how do
you feel about this idea of the government overruling the
council rules in Auckland and adding to Eden Park's concerts.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, I think if eden Park is going to be
the big stadium, then it has to be allowed to
have big and medium sized concert as simple as that.
I live close enough to eden Park that when they
have a big concert I can hear it. I think
if I was on night eleven of a fifteen night
Metallica extravaganza and they were playing to midnight every night,
I'll beginning about Do you know I'm not I'm actually
(09:49):
more of a system of a down guy. Yeah, yeah,
but no, I honestly think that's it. If eden Park
is going to be the stadium, it has to be
allowed to have the concert.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, would you come up for Metallica?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Liam, I'm not for Metallica. No, you know that's not me.
But can I just say I am very in favor
of the move simply because Hannah Clark blocked me on
Twitter and like, sorry, any anything to do? Then nothing?
I can't you know, I probably might. I probably gave
a very reasonable and correct critique of one of her
(10:24):
tweets and I got blocked for it. So anything that
annoys her, I'm now in favor of you.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
So, so she's the anti Eden Park and you're the
anti Helen.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Now, yeah, I think we should be forty major concerts
a year now.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, I'm down with that, guys, Thanks very much. Liam here, Jack,
tame Hudle. This evening, I'm going to Metallica. Oh I'm
not going alone.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The girls are going. It's our first.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, the girls are going to Metallica. We've just got haven't.
We just packed out calendar for the concert club.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news Talk sai'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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