December 11, 2024 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A and Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
What do we make of the the ferry announcement-for-an-announcement? There's still a lot of lingering questions following the Government's latest update - how much will they cost? What do we make of this process? And what does it mean for the coalition?
Labour's Chris Hipkins is inferring racism after noting only Māori MPs got sent to the Privileges Committee following the haka in Parliament? What do we think of this?
Why do we think people are fawning over the alleged killer of the UnitedHealthcare CEO? Is this glorifying violence?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's international realty, local and
global exposure like no other.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Someone saying, Ryan, you idiot, it's not like a light switch. Well,
when you see the word switch, I mean, what else
are you to think? What else are you to imagine? Right,
let's go to our huddle, Jordan Williams. The text pacing
is with us tonight. Jordan, good evening, Good day, Ryan,
Jack tames here, host of Saturday Mornings on ZB and
Q and.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
A gid a Jack kill Right.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good to have you guys on the show tonight. Jordan
will start with you. Let's talk about those faeries. We
don't well what do we know? What can we talk about?
I guess and we're a little light on detail.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
That pretty much the conversation I just said with my staff.
This is the we didn't really really I see infrastructing
the other and put out a release welcoming the possibility
that there could be some external capital or a public
private partnership. But on the other hand, you look at
this and this is the announcement you have when basically
a cabinet Nikola Willis has had to say, guys, I
know we can't agree anything, but we have to say something.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Please.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You know there's a aren'ts that these rail new fairies
will be enabled sorry rail enabled. But you know, let's
just step back and look at this. You know, the
private companies don't need a tax part a front up
every time you need to buy a new boat.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
And somehow the political class.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
In Wellington are continuing with this, this joke that replacing
three fairies with two fairies somehow makes us more resilient.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thank you, Jordan. I'm going to get to Jack. I
want your take on this when we come back the
huddle with New.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Zealand Sotheby's International Realty elevate the marketing of your home.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
According to six News Talks, there'd be the huddle tonight.
Jordan Williams, the Taxpayers Union and Jack Tame, host of
Saturday Mornings on zbn Q and a Jack come to
you on the fairies. Is this, as Jordan said, like
a big disagreement between ministers who can't decide on anything.
Winston's maybe thrown as toys. He's now the Minister for
Rail and we've got further delays. Is that how you
(01:58):
see this?
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah? I think it is. I mean I think it's
pretty remarkable given the swiftness with which this government has
moved in all manner of policy areas, I think, largely
to their credit, how little they have achieved on this
front over the last twelve months. And it's interesting to
distinguish this issue in this policy from the policies which
were really explicitly laid out in the coalition agreements, because
(02:22):
this is probably the single media's policy to come across
the government's desk without an agreement having been reached during
the coalition negotiation process. And I think this is where
we are seeing some of the tensions, right. So yeah,
clearly there's there's disagreement. I mean that, you know, I
think it's safe to say that Act has a similar
position to that of Jordan, where they don't think actually
the tax pay needs to be shoving out for this.
(02:43):
Clearly New Zealand First has a completely different position. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But the thing is, you know, if Winston's now in
charge and he's very shrewd, you know, getting likes to
agree to a rail portfolio, now that he's in charge,
is he going to be the minister that goes down
in history that cancel rail enabled ferries between the North
and the South Island. No, so then the projects becomes
more expensive. So then you know, how can they say
(03:09):
it's going to be cheaper Jordan.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, I mean that's yeah, I mean that's recisely the
conversations that will be happening behind the scenes. And the
thing that I find most interesting in this is that
there has been a lot of disagreements has tended to
be around this combination of ministers. And one of the
things that you know that that former prime ministers or
leaders of the opposition that have dealt with Winston Peters
(03:32):
will tell you is that you should be really really
careful you know who what team you put on the
field in terms of those sorts of negotiations. Now, I
don't think you know, you're breaking any state secrets to
say that there is not a lot of love lost
between Nikola Willis and Winston Peters. And I think this
is going to could could well take its time in
terms of getting a resolution of this matter. Meanwhile, we
(03:56):
continue to go across the cook straight on these old
dungs that are possibly at risk of something else going wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
By Kayak, Chris Hopkins is inferring racism, Jack, This is
you know he's not come out and said it, but
he was on ourans ed this morning and he basically
said that Jerry Browne was only picking on the Maori
MP's and sending them to the Privileges Committee over the
Hakka in the House, not on the others. And he
(04:24):
was questioned by corn Dan about this and he said, oh, well,
you can read into it what you make your own conclusions.
I thought this was pretty outrageous. What did you think?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Well, well, I mean, I just I was confused by
his comments because he said that there were non Mardi MP's.
He suggested that there were non Mardi MP's who stood
up and performed a haker or protested alongside to part
of Mardi and the Labor MPs who did that. And
I've only seen that that kind of footage that mainly
(04:53):
focused on Hanna Last he might be Clark. I can't
see other MP's in that standing up and joining them.
I just would thought a kind of blanket rule for
anyone who clearly broke the rules is appropriate. And if
there were only Mardi MP's who broke those standing orders,
then it should only be Marty MP's who are punished.
(05:13):
But if it were people other people who do exactly
the same harker and we're protesting in the same way,
then of course they should be they should be punished
as well. But you know that main footage that we've
all seen, I wasn't in the house that day, that
main footage that we've all seen. I couldn't see others,
So it's probably a judgment best left to someone else
who could see those people. And I don't think Chris
Hopkins named those other MP's today, which was an interesting point.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
He didn't, And so we went to Jerry Browny's office
and he said there were others, like non Mardi MPs
who were joining in in the hacker as well, but
they were standing behind there, they were at their desks
doing it. So he said the distinction being made, you know,
his line in the sand was basically, if you walk
out into the middle of the chamber and you know
(05:56):
you're doing it there, that is a disruption, whereas for
those who weren't, they're not going to the privileges. So Jordan,
I guess that's a distinction that he's made.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well, I make a slightly different distinction, and that is
that the wording around this is all around the disruption
of parliament. I think constitutionally, though the significance of this
was the intention to intimidate, because walking over to those
actingps doing that or sorry not, you know, hackering over
in that the gap between the opposition and the government
(06:26):
could be, you know, in historical terms, be interpreted as
quite intimidating. And it is a very you know, a
lot of the traditions around Parliament that even the length
of the opposition to the government benches, you know, historically
being the least in the in the UK House of Commons,
you know, two sword lengths for a reason. There's that
(06:47):
When I first saw this, it was more a sort
of my reaction was more in that sort of disappointment
that there is a worrying willingness to reach for the
racism card, and I think to have the leader of
the opposite do that. I know Labour's leaning pretty heavily
into the sort of critical race Mary Party view of
the world, but I think to suggest that the speaker,
(07:11):
when you're the leader of the opposition, it's not a
sort of backbench or a small party to suggest racism,
I think it should have a pretty high benchmark, and
people may question whether it's really appropriate here.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, what about over in the United States, Jack, and
you used to obviously report from there, the sort of
sensationalism and the fawning over this alleged murderer, the Manhattan
shooter in New York, people are leaving bad going as
far as leaving bad reviews on the McDonald's that dabbed
him in.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean, from what we've seen of this guy
and seeing him at his court appearance today, he's obviously
pretty disturbed, and I hadn't realized until today that he
hadn't been in contact with any of his friends or
family for months before this alleged for the time being,
although the evidents does seem pretty strong murder. But yeah,
I mean, healthcare is insanely expensive in the US, and
(08:05):
I don't think it's any great surprise that, you know,
the combination of a brazen assassination of a much disliked
healthcare boss by a relatively photogenic individual who was then
on the run for a few days has kind of
(08:25):
captured the imagination of the world. I still think it's
kind of sad how quickly people forget that there's a.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Human being at the middle of this.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
I mean, imagine being this guy's you know, the victim's
family right now, God, it would be an awful experience.
That being said, I think two things can be true
at the same time. I think you can say that
the US healthcare system is broken, that people are treated
terribly by many of these insurance companies, but also that
murder is not okay.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
A very basic point I think we can all agree on. Jordan.
It is interesting, isn't it, though, Like culturally, how these
things can take off in a way that I think
that they would here.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, you could, if it's being cynical, you could say
that the glorification of violence, including a quite now quite
mainstream protest movements, that you could argue that this is
the natural consequence of that. I was in the US
only a few weeks ago, and I was pleasantly surprised
with the extent of polarization, at least in New York,
(09:26):
was a step down from what I remember when Trump
won against Hillary. An example, in an underground comedy club
they were making they were mocking not just Sleepy Joel
and Trump, but also Kamala Harris only two weeks after
the vote. Now, I can't imagine that happening two weeks
after Hillary lost to Trump, and that sort of suggested
(09:47):
to me, among other observations, that actually, perhaps the US
studn't get.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Out the other side. On the other hand, the sort
of symbolic use of violent symbols that are used in
protest movements, not just in the US but here really
concerns me that inevitably, when there is an act of
violence and we're all shocked that you have a small
minority celebrating it, that's quite scary and not normal in
(10:13):
the Western world, at least in my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
No, but certainly something that's becoming more common. Jordan, thank
you for that. Jordan Williams, tax Paisy and Jack Tame,
host of Saturday mornings on ZB and Q and A.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk ZB from four pm weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's international realty, local and
global exposure like no other.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Someone saying, Ryan, you idiot, it's not like a light switch. Well,
when you see the word switch, I mean, what else
are you to think? What else are you to imagine? Right,
let's go to our huddle, Jordan Williams. The text pacing
is with us tonight. Jordan, good evening, Good day, Ryan,
Jack tames here, host of Saturday Mornings on ZB and
Q and.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
A gid a Jack kill Right.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good to have you guys on the show tonight. Jordan
will start with you. Let's talk about those faeries. We
don't well what do we know? What can we talk about?
I guess and we're a little light on detail.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
That pretty much the conversation I just said with my staff.
This is the we didn't really really I see infrastructing
the other and put out a release welcoming the possibility
that there could be some external capital or a public
private partnership. But on the other hand, you look at
this and this is the announcement you have when basically
a cabinet Nikola Willis has had to say, guys, I
know we can't agree anything, but we have to say something.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Please.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You know there's a aren'ts that these rail new fairies
will be enabled sorry rail enabled. But you know, let's
just step back and look at this. You know, the
private companies don't need a tax part a front up
every time you need to buy a new boat.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
And somehow the political class.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
In Wellington are continuing with this, this joke that replacing
three fairies with two fairies somehow makes us more resilient.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thank you, Jordan. I'm going to get to Jack. I
want your take on this when we come back the
huddle with New.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Zealand Sotheby's International Realty elevate the marketing of your home.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
According to six News Talks, there'd be the huddle tonight.
Jordan Williams, the Taxpayers Union and Jack Tame, host of
Saturday Mornings on zbn Q and a Jack come to
you on the fairies. Is this, as Jordan said, like
a big disagreement between ministers who can't decide on anything.
Winston's maybe thrown as toys. He's now the Minister for
Rail and we've got further delays. Is that how you
(01:58):
see this?
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah? I think it is. I mean I think it's
pretty remarkable given the swiftness with which this government has
moved in all manner of policy areas, I think, largely
to their credit, how little they have achieved on this
front over the last twelve months. And it's interesting to
distinguish this issue in this policy from the policies which
were really explicitly laid out in the coalition agreements, because
(02:22):
this is probably the single media's policy to come across
the government's desk without an agreement having been reached during
the coalition negotiation process. And I think this is where
we are seeing some of the tensions, right. So yeah,
clearly there's there's disagreement. I mean that, you know, I
think it's safe to say that Act has a similar
position to that of Jordan, where they don't think actually
the tax pay needs to be shoving out for this.
(02:43):
Clearly New Zealand First has a completely different position. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But the thing is, you know, if Winston's now in
charge and he's very shrewd, you know, getting likes to
agree to a rail portfolio, now that he's in charge,
is he going to be the minister that goes down
in history that cancel rail enabled ferries between the North
and the South Island. No, so then the projects becomes
more expensive. So then you know, how can they say
(03:09):
it's going to be cheaper Jordan.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, I mean that's yeah, I mean that's recisely the
conversations that will be happening behind the scenes. And the
thing that I find most interesting in this is that
there has been a lot of disagreements has tended to
be around this combination of ministers. And one of the
things that you know that that former prime ministers or
leaders of the opposition that have dealt with Winston Peters
(03:32):
will tell you is that you should be really really
careful you know who what team you put on the
field in terms of those sorts of negotiations. Now, I
don't think you know, you're breaking any state secrets to
say that there is not a lot of love lost
between Nikola Willis and Winston Peters. And I think this
is going to could could well take its time in
terms of getting a resolution of this matter. Meanwhile, we
(03:56):
continue to go across the cook straight on these old
dungs that are possibly at risk of something else going wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
By Kayak, Chris Hopkins is inferring racism, Jack, This is
you know he's not come out and said it, but
he was on ourans ed this morning and he basically
said that Jerry Browne was only picking on the Maori
MP's and sending them to the Privileges Committee over the
Hakka in the House, not on the others. And he
(04:24):
was questioned by corn Dan about this and he said, oh, well,
you can read into it what you make your own conclusions.
I thought this was pretty outrageous. What did you think?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Well, well, I mean, I just I was confused by
his comments because he said that there were non Mardi MP's.
He suggested that there were non Mardi MP's who stood
up and performed a haker or protested alongside to part
of Mardi and the Labor MPs who did that. And
I've only seen that that kind of footage that mainly
(04:53):
focused on Hanna Last he might be Clark. I can't
see other MP's in that standing up and joining them.
I just would thought a kind of blanket rule for
anyone who clearly broke the rules is appropriate. And if
there were only Mardi MP's who broke those standing orders,
then it should only be Marty MP's who are punished.
(05:13):
But if it were people other people who do exactly
the same harker and we're protesting in the same way,
then of course they should be they should be punished
as well. But you know that main footage that we've
all seen, I wasn't in the house that day, that
main footage that we've all seen. I couldn't see others,
So it's probably a judgment best left to someone else
who could see those people. And I don't think Chris
Hopkins named those other MP's today, which was an interesting point.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
He didn't, And so we went to Jerry Browny's office
and he said there were others, like non Mardi MPs
who were joining in in the hacker as well, but
they were standing behind there, they were at their desks
doing it. So he said the distinction being made, you know,
his line in the sand was basically, if you walk
out into the middle of the chamber and you know
(05:56):
you're doing it there, that is a disruption, whereas for
those who weren't, they're not going to the privileges. So Jordan,
I guess that's a distinction that he's made.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well, I make a slightly different distinction, and that is
that the wording around this is all around the disruption
of parliament. I think constitutionally, though the significance of this
was the intention to intimidate, because walking over to those
actingps doing that or sorry not, you know, hackering over
in that the gap between the opposition and the government
(06:26):
could be, you know, in historical terms, be interpreted as
quite intimidating. And it is a very you know, a
lot of the traditions around Parliament that even the length
of the opposition to the government benches, you know, historically
being the least in the in the UK House of Commons,
you know, two sword lengths for a reason. There's that
(06:47):
When I first saw this, it was more a sort
of my reaction was more in that sort of disappointment
that there is a worrying willingness to reach for the
racism card, and I think to have the leader of
the opposite do that. I know Labour's leaning pretty heavily
into the sort of critical race Mary Party view of
the world, but I think to suggest that the speaker,
(07:11):
when you're the leader of the opposition, it's not a
sort of backbench or a small party to suggest racism,
I think it should have a pretty high benchmark, and
people may question whether it's really appropriate here.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, what about over in the United States, Jack, and
you used to obviously report from there, the sort of
sensationalism and the fawning over this alleged murderer, the Manhattan
shooter in New York, people are leaving bad going as
far as leaving bad reviews on the McDonald's that dabbed
him in.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean, from what we've seen of this guy
and seeing him at his court appearance today, he's obviously
pretty disturbed, and I hadn't realized until today that he
hadn't been in contact with any of his friends or
family for months before this alleged for the time being,
although the evidents does seem pretty strong murder. But yeah,
I mean, healthcare is insanely expensive in the US, and
(08:05):
I don't think it's any great surprise that, you know,
the combination of a brazen assassination of a much disliked
healthcare boss by a relatively photogenic individual who was then
on the run for a few days has kind of
(08:25):
captured the imagination of the world. I still think it's
kind of sad how quickly people forget that there's a.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Human being at the middle of this.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
I mean, imagine being this guy's you know, the victim's
family right now, God, it would be an awful experience.
That being said, I think two things can be true
at the same time. I think you can say that
the US healthcare system is broken, that people are treated
terribly by many of these insurance companies, but also that
murder is not okay.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
A very basic point I think we can all agree on. Jordan.
It is interesting, isn't it, though, Like culturally, how these
things can take off in a way that I think
that they would here.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, you could, if it's being cynical, you could say
that the glorification of violence, including a quite now quite
mainstream protest movements, that you could argue that this is
the natural consequence of that. I was in the US
only a few weeks ago, and I was pleasantly surprised
with the extent of polarization, at least in New York,
(09:26):
was a step down from what I remember when Trump
won against Hillary. An example, in an underground comedy club
they were making they were mocking not just Sleepy Joel
and Trump, but also Kamala Harris only two weeks after
the vote. Now, I can't imagine that happening two weeks
after Hillary lost to Trump, and that sort of suggested
(09:47):
to me, among other observations, that actually, perhaps the US
studn't get.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Out the other side. On the other hand, the sort
of symbolic use of violent symbols that are used in
protest movements, not just in the US but here really
concerns me that inevitably, when there is an act of
violence and we're all shocked that you have a small
minority celebrating it, that's quite scary and not normal in
(10:13):
the Western world, at least in my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
No, but certainly something that's becoming more common. Jordan, thank
you for that. Jordan Williams, tax Paisy and Jack Tame,
host of Saturday mornings on ZB and Q and A.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk ZB from four pm weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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