October 2, 2025 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union and Ali Jones from Red PR joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Toitū Te Tiriti, the activist group behind the hikoi on Parliament last year officially cut ties with Te Pāti Māori today. What does this mean for Te Pāti Māori's political future - or Labour's?
Should we be assisting the Kiwis who got arrested because they were on the Gaza flotilla - in any way? What do we make of these kinds of stunts?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the Global Leader,
and Luxury real Estate.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On the huddle with me this evening we have Jordan
Williams of the Taxpayers Union and Alie Jones of read PR.
Hello you two him?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
All right?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
What's going on here?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Jordan?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You know politics? They're having a big old fight, are they.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's someone at a party today said it's kind of
refreshing when you see your opponents going through it. Because,
of course it's the main reason one of the reasons
I don't want to get into party politics. And I
love the think tank called Pressure Group World because you
can actually get rid of toxic people. The problem is
in politics and public affairs is it inherently attracts people
(00:39):
that are on a spectrum. And I put myself there
in that too. But it means you can get some
difficult personalities and it's why a lot of political causes
often blow up. I mean this is I mean to
fall out with your main sort of pressure group, though
it was a bit like labor falling out with the
(00:59):
unions or the National Party falling out with the Taxpayers Union,
you're sort of going to have a Mary party without
its topappa or even worse. I see that this talk
of setting up another party in competition, So we're going
to have to party Maori and Maori to party.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
You know what, I don't think Alie that he should
be left to naming these parties. That was a really
that was crap, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It was when I was listening to you talking to
who knows who and who's married it to who and
who's related to it reminded me of that TV show
Soap years ago, and I think you should have played
the theme of that underneath as you were talking about them.
It is really confusing. It sounds incredibly incestuous. But I
think one of the biggest issues here, and I'm not
a political expert obviously, is that the problem this leaves labor.
(01:42):
I mean, the Greens are just a mess. They've lost
a third of their caucus this year and we've still
got you know, a year left of this sorry, a
third of their caucus in this term, and we've still
got a year of that term left. And now we've
got to party Marty as well, and there could be
another Maori party split in that vote. I mean, I
don't know what the hell lay the things that's going
to do now.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Labor a cockahooge. That was what the friend of mine
I was speaking to about about this, that labor went
from this because if you split the vote and the
more it this area is more than you know, it's
just it's all mess and normally that has a political cost.
But if you've got your voters aren't particularly engaged. I
don't think that it is the public perception of it
(02:22):
being messy. I think that the real issue here is
that the party Marty have had such a good ground
game and being well organized that if that has blown up,
all that organizational wing has blown up, that means that
that the sort of comparative advantage to labor is now gone.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I how why are they excited about this? Jordren, I
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't know labor benefit and labor what the MARI
sets back and this is just the chances of that
have just increased.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Do you really think so?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I mean that we just we just saw that play
out in the in the by election. We labour got
absolutely sipped smashed.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I said, what, but okay, so so the how does
this increase? Because because you'd have to assume that your
voter actually cares necessarily without I'm.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Saying it's probably not the case, but that if it has,
you know, this is the sort of organizational wing of
two party Maori that is splitting apart.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Then then I mean I take your point, Jordan, because
because Edu Kapakini is a really he's an activist for them, right,
he is able to get a lot of people out
on the ground, as you saw with that he COIs
So the loss of him I think is quite.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Big, right absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, Now Allie, tell me what you think about the
Gaza flow. Tell I should be helping these kids to
get that. Just leave it all.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Oh god, you know no, Well, look, you know this
is head and heart stuff. I might my head goes, Look,
I'm sorry, you make your bed, you li in it.
And I think that the team's dad with whom you
spoke was put it perfectly, that the boy knew what
he was doing. You cannot tell them my boys twenty two.
I know that this does not appear to be like
other examples recently where people were shot by by armed
(04:05):
forces coming onto ships. So my head tells me, you know,
life is about making decisions. There are consequences for that
you knew what you were doing. But then my heart goes,
we need to look after people whoever they are, Kiwi's
wherever they are, and if we can. I mean, this
is not a grown man, this is a team. He
doesn't have years of experience. We all know that men
(04:27):
especially don't really get their brains working until they're well
into their thirties, right Jordan, So I mean, what do
we do in that situation? I mean, should we actually
show some compassion or do we go, hey, you made
your bed mate? Lie?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, Jordan, know what your response, but let's get it
after the break.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Hang ons the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty
Find You're one of a kind?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Right you back with the huddle, Jordan Williams Ali Jones, go, Jordan,
what do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Well, I'm delighted that Ali suggested that I'm still in
my twenties now forgotten what the questionerby?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
BERTI should we be assisting the kids who've been caught
up in the The thing.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
That annoys me as people go and do brave things
like I believe in this course so much, and were
going to do something stupid or illegal. But we now
live in a world where you try to get off.
Because I know I already believe in the cause, I
shouldn't get in trouble. The whole virtue was taking the
risk and getting in trouble. You can't have it both ways.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Okay, now what about Wayne Brown? How do you feel
about this? Jordan?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, he's told the tens of thousands of Ratepayers Alliance
members that have emailed them saying, hey, sign the pledge
like meres across the country are doing to that You're
only going to put rates up by inflation. You're going
to commit to spending, transparency, et cetera. And he told
one of the nicest guys I've ever met, my local
(05:51):
government campaigns manager, Sam Warren, to f Off, I think
it says more about mister Brown that it does out
Sam or the Auckland ratepayers supporters. He should just do
the you know, rather than just talk the talk, walk
the walk, and do what all the other candidates have
done and signed the rate Payer Protection Pledge.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Wish to be wish to be unambiguous ally and from
a pr perspective, I think you might have made that point.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
I think it was a was a really dumb thing
to do. And I said, okay, so from a pr point, yeah,
absolutely dumb. From a candidate's point, pretty dumb as well.
And I have to say I'm running obviously, and I
haven't signed that pledge. And the reason I haven't.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Signed are you running for council or local board?
Speaker 4 (06:37):
No, I'm running for council, so.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Because one of the goodies.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I am a goodie. And but the point that there
are two things here. Firstly, it is I've made it
very clear that I was like around the council, well
keep no, I want a rates cap, right, and that's
why campaign.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
You can sign that one. That's one all.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
The other truths for the children. No, I'm not going
through the bits and pieces on that. The point was
I felt you don't want.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
To think that great players should know where the money
is going.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Absolutely I do. I'm saying more trucy. No, not signing anybody. No,
there were other things on there I didn't want to sign.
But the point.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Candidates that have signed the pledge, oh, well, put on there.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
You can have a lot up for a minute, just
just chote. So there are a number of pledges initially
or surveys that I did do and signed, and all
they did was put them through some a AI machine
and gave me s on things. So I've oh, yeah, right, no,
I know you might not, but I'm not going to
do it. People know what I'm campelling.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You're one of the good ones. You should be. So
I'm really disappointed to hear that because I didn't.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
I didn't want to sign the other things there were.
There were two or three other points on there that
I thought were best of us.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
The thing is, this is the trouble is you have
you have people like Wayne Brown that that say one
thing but do another. He's you know, in his long
term plan we're having a record high rates increase under
the super City next year. Is that it's really hard
for rate payers to figure it out when you got
politicants saying one thing but talk the whole purpose of
(08:16):
the pledge. And I know, yep, the various left wing
groups do the do something similar. It's actually just information
for voters when you.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Walk the talk, Jordan, when you're elected, and people know
what I'm campaigning on and what others are and so
they make the decision at the vot boost or rather
by hosting their their balance away.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Look the test of whether you walk as you're you know,
it's it's pretty simple. The rates cap so the caving
rates inflation, the transparent transparency, and no appointed or unelected
decision makers on spending or regitary matters, you know, to
council council committees. That's not a big ask. It's well,
(08:57):
a third one.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I wasn't that third one I was, and one hundred
percent happy with me.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Don't have to sign up to all three. And there's
a lot of you know, the Labor Party candidates.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Are you on a chart? Are you on a percentage
or something? Look, I'll get my people to.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Believe, confess, confess your role with the A A.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
It's it's just the group of the text basing, you know,
I believe in that.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, okay, guys, listen, thank you. That was fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So disappointed.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Ali's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
You're so good. Even someone to break breaking my heart.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
It's like, listen, Oh you're a greasy devil.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Lord, okay, buy the pair of you. It's like, you know,
it's like having a couple at the next table having
an argument and you can't you don't really care, but
you can't help. But listen, Jordan Williams Allie Jones.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
For more from Heather Duplessy Alan Drive, Listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeart Radio
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the Global Leader,
and Luxury real Estate.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On the huddle with me this evening we have Jordan
Williams of the Taxpayers Union and Alie Jones of read PR.
Hello you two him?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
All right?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
What's going on here?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Jordan?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You know politics? They're having a big old fight, are they.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's someone at a party today said it's kind of
refreshing when you see your opponents going through it. Because,
of course it's the main reason one of the reasons
I don't want to get into party politics. And I
love the think tank called Pressure Group World because you
can actually get rid of toxic people. The problem is
in politics and public affairs is it inherently attracts people
(00:39):
that are on a spectrum. And I put myself there
in that too. But it means you can get some
difficult personalities and it's why a lot of political causes
often blow up. I mean this is I mean to
fall out with your main sort of pressure group, though
it was a bit like labor falling out with the
(00:59):
unions or the National Party falling out with the Taxpayers Union,
you're sort of going to have a Mary party without
its topappa or even worse. I see that this talk
of setting up another party in competition, So we're going
to have to party Maori and Maori to party.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
You know what, I don't think Alie that he should
be left to naming these parties. That was a really
that was crap, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It was when I was listening to you talking to
who knows who and who's married it to who and
who's related to it reminded me of that TV show
Soap years ago, and I think you should have played
the theme of that underneath as you were talking about them.
It is really confusing. It sounds incredibly incestuous. But I
think one of the biggest issues here, and I'm not
a political expert obviously, is that the problem this leaves labor.
(01:42):
I mean, the Greens are just a mess. They've lost
a third of their caucus this year and we've still
got you know, a year left of this sorry, a
third of their caucus in this term, and we've still
got a year of that term left. And now we've
got to party Marty as well, and there could be
another Maori party split in that vote. I mean, I
don't know what the hell lay the things that's going
to do now.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Labor a cockahooge. That was what the friend of mine
I was speaking to about about this, that labor went
from this because if you split the vote and the
more it this area is more than you know, it's
just it's all mess and normally that has a political cost.
But if you've got your voters aren't particularly engaged. I
don't think that it is the public perception of it
(02:22):
being messy. I think that the real issue here is
that the party Marty have had such a good ground
game and being well organized that if that has blown up,
all that organizational wing has blown up, that means that
that the sort of comparative advantage to labor is now gone.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I how why are they excited about this? Jordren, I
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't know labor benefit and labor what the MARI
sets back and this is just the chances of that
have just increased.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Do you really think so?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I mean that we just we just saw that play
out in the in the by election. We labour got
absolutely sipped smashed.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I said, what, but okay, so so the how does
this increase? Because because you'd have to assume that your
voter actually cares necessarily without I'm.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Saying it's probably not the case, but that if it has,
you know, this is the sort of organizational wing of
two party Maori that is splitting apart.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Then then I mean I take your point, Jordan, because
because Edu Kapakini is a really he's an activist for them, right,
he is able to get a lot of people out
on the ground, as you saw with that he COIs
So the loss of him I think is quite.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Big, right absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, Now Allie, tell me what you think about the
Gaza flow. Tell I should be helping these kids to
get that. Just leave it all.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Oh god, you know no, Well, look, you know this
is head and heart stuff. I might my head goes, Look,
I'm sorry, you make your bed, you li in it.
And I think that the team's dad with whom you
spoke was put it perfectly, that the boy knew what
he was doing. You cannot tell them my boys twenty two.
I know that this does not appear to be like
other examples recently where people were shot by by armed
(04:05):
forces coming onto ships. So my head tells me, you know,
life is about making decisions. There are consequences for that
you knew what you were doing. But then my heart goes,
we need to look after people whoever they are, Kiwi's
wherever they are, and if we can. I mean, this
is not a grown man, this is a team. He
doesn't have years of experience. We all know that men
(04:27):
especially don't really get their brains working until they're well
into their thirties, right Jordan, So I mean, what do
we do in that situation? I mean, should we actually
show some compassion or do we go, hey, you made
your bed mate? Lie?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, Jordan, know what your response, but let's get it
after the break.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Hang ons the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty
Find You're one of a kind?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Right you back with the huddle, Jordan Williams Ali Jones, go, Jordan,
what do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Well, I'm delighted that Ali suggested that I'm still in
my twenties now forgotten what the questionerby?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
BERTI should we be assisting the kids who've been caught
up in the The thing.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
That annoys me as people go and do brave things
like I believe in this course so much, and were
going to do something stupid or illegal. But we now
live in a world where you try to get off.
Because I know I already believe in the cause, I
shouldn't get in trouble. The whole virtue was taking the
risk and getting in trouble. You can't have it both ways.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Okay, now what about Wayne Brown? How do you feel
about this? Jordan?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, he's told the tens of thousands of Ratepayers Alliance
members that have emailed them saying, hey, sign the pledge
like meres across the country are doing to that You're
only going to put rates up by inflation. You're going
to commit to spending, transparency, et cetera. And he told
one of the nicest guys I've ever met, my local
(05:51):
government campaigns manager, Sam Warren, to f Off, I think
it says more about mister Brown that it does out
Sam or the Auckland ratepayers supporters. He should just do
the you know, rather than just talk the talk, walk
the walk, and do what all the other candidates have
done and signed the rate Payer Protection Pledge.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Wish to be wish to be unambiguous ally and from
a pr perspective, I think you might have made that point.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
I think it was a was a really dumb thing
to do. And I said, okay, so from a pr point, yeah,
absolutely dumb. From a candidate's point, pretty dumb as well.
And I have to say I'm running obviously, and I
haven't signed that pledge. And the reason I haven't.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Signed are you running for council or local board?
Speaker 4 (06:37):
No, I'm running for council, so.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Because one of the goodies.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I am a goodie. And but the point that there
are two things here. Firstly, it is I've made it
very clear that I was like around the council, well
keep no, I want a rates cap, right, and that's
why campaign.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
You can sign that one. That's one all.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
The other truths for the children. No, I'm not going
through the bits and pieces on that. The point was
I felt you don't want.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
To think that great players should know where the money
is going.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Absolutely I do. I'm saying more trucy. No, not signing anybody. No,
there were other things on there I didn't want to sign.
But the point.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Candidates that have signed the pledge, oh, well, put on there.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
You can have a lot up for a minute, just
just chote. So there are a number of pledges initially
or surveys that I did do and signed, and all
they did was put them through some a AI machine
and gave me s on things. So I've oh, yeah, right, no,
I know you might not, but I'm not going to
do it. People know what I'm campelling.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You're one of the good ones. You should be. So
I'm really disappointed to hear that because I didn't.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
I didn't want to sign the other things there were.
There were two or three other points on there that
I thought were best of us.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
The thing is, this is the trouble is you have
you have people like Wayne Brown that that say one
thing but do another. He's you know, in his long
term plan we're having a record high rates increase under
the super City next year. Is that it's really hard
for rate payers to figure it out when you got
politicants saying one thing but talk the whole purpose of
(08:16):
the pledge. And I know, yep, the various left wing
groups do the do something similar. It's actually just information
for voters when you.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Walk the talk, Jordan, when you're elected, and people know
what I'm campaigning on and what others are and so
they make the decision at the vot boost or rather
by hosting their their balance away.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Look the test of whether you walk as you're you know,
it's it's pretty simple. The rates cap so the caving
rates inflation, the transparent transparency, and no appointed or unelected
decision makers on spending or regitary matters, you know, to
council council committees. That's not a big ask. It's well,
(08:57):
a third one.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I wasn't that third one I was, and one hundred
percent happy with me.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Don't have to sign up to all three. And there's
a lot of you know, the Labor Party candidates.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Are you on a chart? Are you on a percentage
or something? Look, I'll get my people to.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Believe, confess, confess your role with the A A.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
It's it's just the group of the text basing, you know,
I believe in that.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, okay, guys, listen, thank you. That was fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So disappointed.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Ali's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
You're so good. Even someone to break breaking my heart.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
It's like, listen, Oh you're a greasy devil.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Lord, okay, buy the pair of you. It's like, you know,
it's like having a couple at the next table having
an argument and you can't you don't really care, but
you can't help. But listen, Jordan Williams Allie Jones.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
For more from Heather Duplessy Alan Drive, Listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeart Radio
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