November 24, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, lawyer and political commentator Liam Hehir and Child Fund CEO Josie Pagani joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
New reports claim New Zealand's wasting 1.2 million tonnes of food every year - but most of it is thrown away during production before it makes its way to the supermarket. What do we make of this?
Ahead of the election, National is promising to increase KiwiSaver contributions by 2032 as part of their election campaign. Will this get votes?
Speaking of the election, new polls show prospective voters are in favour of adjusting any capital gains tax for inflation. Labour has no plans to take this on board - should they consider this?
Plenty of media commentators have outlined their concerns with Air New Zealand this week. Do we agree Air New Zealand needs to improve themselves? Will more Kiwis jump to Jetstar?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
H Are you too, Josee, you buy the wonky fruit?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yes, I mean I just buy fruit generally. I don't
think about it. But I do wonder about this statistic
because I actually spent the weekend cleaning out my spice
cupboard and found spices going back to about twenty sixteen,
and I chucked them all out, So I think that
accounts for about one point too many tons on its own.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Did you taste it first to see if it was
still good?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
No? I didn't. I'm not going to taste mixed spice
and cardamen raw on my tongue.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
How do you know it's How do you know you
can't cook with it?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Are you going all greeny on me, Heather?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I just don't like.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I just want new spices and new herbs. And I'm
actually sort of hard to find it hard to get
really upset about this. I mean, yes, we shouldn't waste food,
and I have a compost and all of that, but
you know we've got hot wards, ai, pandemics, you know,
trade blocks, God knows what else I'm not I'm struggling
(01:00):
to get too worried about.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm not worried about lim. I just reckon that there's
a market here, like I reckon, there are willing participants
like myself who are like, give me your wonky fruit
and charge me forty percent less. And I'm sitting here
going I want to pay less for fruit, and they
want to get rid of their fruit. We should hook up,
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the thing. We live in
a market economy, right And you know, one of the
greatest strengths of market economies, you know, for their drawbacks
here and there, is that they produce a mess of
supplus and abundance and food most of all. The probably
the reason why we waste less food than other countries
is that we're poorer than other countries. We like to
(01:38):
prepare ourselves so we can't wait. You know. It's honestly
like it's the idea that you can just magically move
these sup blusses around and they all find the right
place or grow less. That's not how markets work, it's
not how economies work. Having too much or something so
that you can turn it away is actually a sign
of prosperity. I'd like us they have more food waste
because I'd like us to be more prosperous.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We're already eating the wonky fruit.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, yeah, we are, like you literally are are you
buying it at the supermarket? It's called the odd bunch? Hey, Liam,
what do you think of this key we saver policy
from the nets? You like it?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I think it's good policy, it's inevitable, it's probably the
phasing is good. It's probably a good template about how
we have to do the national superannuation too. But look,
I mean, look, I'm forty, I'm forty next next year,
and I've just in all my life I've always thought, looked,
it has to be care we favor because there's just
not going to be enough money through through national superannuation
(02:35):
when it comes to me and we have to get
serious about it. And I'm a complete convert on KIV saver.
I was against it when it came out, but it's
been a real success story. And actually it's going to
be the thing that's going to have to save us
because it's just too politically impossible to really reform superannuation.
This is the step in the right direction. I'm not
sure how politically popular it's going to be, if you
(02:56):
you know, I mean, it's it is taking money out
of your week to week paid. You're telling people that
they can't manage that for themselves, but it's a necessity.
So I'm not sure if it's great politics, but it's
good economics.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I mean I think Liam's onto something which is Joseph,
which is that it is going to have to save us,
probably from the pension situation. But it's only going to
save us if we make a compulsory Are you okay
with the government making it compulsory at six percent from
you and six percent from the employer.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So I'm not in favor of making it compulsory for
two reasons. One is that sometimes businesses want to just
plow their money into their business and they know how
best to spend their own money. I mean, God, I'm
sounding like Liam here, and it's true, they know best
how to spend their own money. And also you might
have some people who just can't put away twelve percent
or something. But the other thing I would say, and
(03:44):
that's interesting Liam, that you said that, because I remember
running can we say the campaign pay parntal lead campaigns
and so on? Four weeks minimum annual leave. Then that
hated these policies now, and I think it's a really
good thing that now we have a kind of cross
party consensus. But saving money is a really good idea.
It's what Australia did one of the reasons they're richer
(04:05):
than us and paper rentally is a good idea and
so four weeks annually. So good to hear you agree
with that, Comrade Liam.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well persue, the politics of it is anything rather than offend.
There soon to be retiring boomers, right, so I think.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Liam, I don't want them to touch my pens, and
either they could bug it off off. I'm not even
a boomer, although maybe I am in my spirit. All Right,
we'll take a break, you guys, come back to the
huddle shortly, head.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Lest the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the
only truly global brand.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Right back with the huddle. Limb here and Joseph Accarney. Liam,
you'll have seen the Taxpayers Union Curier poll about the
inflation adjustment on the CGT and then everybody likes it.
Do you think label will do that or they are
just too greedy for the dollars.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
They definitely won't do it, and don't give them too
much credit for that, because national really have missed the
trick and a lot of inflation indexing. Two, The reality
is that parties of you know, both political parties, both
major political parties, in fact all of them really are
just too tempted to gobble up the bounty of inflation.
(05:13):
And you know, I'm pretty sure the economics of their
labor cgg gets won't stack up without the inflation adjustments.
So just just my way in hell that said, it's
completely fair. It's it's it's completely fear to do it.
They should be doing that for income tax as well.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What's completely fair.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
That's completely fair to index it for inflation. We shouldn't
be taxing people on what they're real especially for realization
based taxes. But it's it's the most fear thing that
could possibly happen too our tax system. That's why it's
popular across the board, both for income tax as well.
But there's too much money and governments will never give
up that ability to easily increase taxes without having to
(05:54):
tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
You'd agree that agree with that a Josie, Well.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Not, but everybody wants to pay less tax, right, So
if you ask people do you think it should be
inflation index they'll all say, yes, I want to pay less,
and but Liam, you're right that if you're going to
do it for capital gains tax, then you have to
do it for income tax too and that. But the
problem then is that we always have a political debate,
don't we about fiscal drag and whether or not to
(06:18):
let inflation increase your tax take. And so that is
a political decision. And I think whether for income tax
or for CGT or any tax, you have to you
have to make that a political decision. You can't just
say we're going to now do inflation indexing for every
tax because the tax take would massively drop, and then
you've got to work out what you're going to cut.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
One correction, it's not about paying less, it's about paying
the same. It's not wanting to pay more. That's the
whole point of the indexation is to keep it real
and constant. Terms like the idea that indexation is some
kind of tax cut, which is what Labor said in
the past, is just wrong. It's just not right.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But there is always a debate, isn't there a monk
political parties as to whether or not you're going to
let the fiscal drag go on or whether you're going
to have sort of bring in the brackets and adjust it.
So what I'm saying is that those have to be
political discussions and we have to vote on what we
want or not. If you make it a law or
a rule that you're going to you're going to index
(07:19):
every attax to inflmation, then you're going to have some
massive questions to answer, which is how the hell you're
going to pay for stuff now?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
But it is done elsewhere, It's under the United States,
for example, and it's been a game changer for the
low text cause, which is which is probably why if
you say it's a political decision.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Liam, can you explain why everybody's heading on in New
Zealand this.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Week or well, you know, like you get Josey to that,
I'll get my thoughts on that.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Okay, go Josie. Why is everybody in New Zealand this weekend?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh? God, where do I start? So the service is
bloody awful? I mean, you go on, I've had flights
canceled and then I've ended up in christ Church instead
of Auckland for bloody hours, hours and hours at midnight
or three am and then wait for flight at five am.
They lose your bags and then they give you a
thirty dollars option. So the service is low budget. The
(08:16):
price is so expensive. But wherever there's a wonderful airline
and I'm a great stand of air chatterms, I have
to say, but whether it's an air Chatters or a
jet Star competing, especially Jetstar, then suddenly Air New Zealand's
prices go down. So I just feel like they're taking
us for a ride and they're going to it's going
to hurt them because if you get more players coming in,
(08:37):
air chatterms grows, jet Star starts to take up more
customers than they're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Liam.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Do you fly the Orange Bird?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yes, I mean I'm.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
About too though. How far away are you from flying
the Orange Bird?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, we don't have I've never had too many issues
personally with the New Zealand. It might because pals Off
Airport's so excellent that, you know, like it, they never
really ever have any problems. But the but the issue
was this year is what's sort of frustrating to me
is that it's exactly what Josie said about, you know,
the need when the competition they they up their game
(09:13):
and they reduce their prices until that competition is driven
out of the You know, it's like this natural monopoly
that that you know, you can only ever periodically you
have good airline service because it's only depends on whether
or not they're trying to drive someone out or not.
So I think, you know, there's certain structure all there
that has to be looked at.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, can I say one thing, Heather. They're also changing
that the miles frequent miles plans, and so you can't
get into the crow club anymore by flying lots. I
have spent years. I've literally brought my kids up in
the Corrow clubs who hoover the free food, but the
all blacks for autographs. That's stealing that away from us.
Now it's going to make it harder, not fair.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I know, everything everything good. First they took the newspapers,
then they took the cups that you could take on
the plane. Now they're taking the current club away all together. Guys,
thanks very much, appreciate it. JOSEPHGANI Liam here are huddle for.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
More from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to News
Talk Set B from four p m. Weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
H Are you too, Josee, you buy the wonky fruit?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yes, I mean I just buy fruit generally. I don't
think about it. But I do wonder about this statistic
because I actually spent the weekend cleaning out my spice
cupboard and found spices going back to about twenty sixteen,
and I chucked them all out, So I think that
accounts for about one point too many tons on its own.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Did you taste it first to see if it was
still good?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
No? I didn't. I'm not going to taste mixed spice
and cardamen raw on my tongue.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
How do you know it's How do you know you
can't cook with it?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Are you going all greeny on me, Heather?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I just don't like.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I just want new spices and new herbs. And I'm
actually sort of hard to find it hard to get
really upset about this. I mean, yes, we shouldn't waste food,
and I have a compost and all of that, but
you know we've got hot wards, ai, pandemics, you know,
trade blocks, God knows what else I'm not I'm struggling
(01:00):
to get too worried about.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm not worried about lim. I just reckon that there's
a market here, like I reckon, there are willing participants
like myself who are like, give me your wonky fruit
and charge me forty percent less. And I'm sitting here
going I want to pay less for fruit, and they
want to get rid of their fruit. We should hook up,
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the thing. We live in
a market economy, right And you know, one of the
greatest strengths of market economies, you know, for their drawbacks
here and there, is that they produce a mess of
supplus and abundance and food most of all. The probably
the reason why we waste less food than other countries
is that we're poorer than other countries. We like to
(01:38):
prepare ourselves so we can't wait. You know. It's honestly
like it's the idea that you can just magically move
these sup blusses around and they all find the right
place or grow less. That's not how markets work, it's
not how economies work. Having too much or something so
that you can turn it away is actually a sign
of prosperity. I'd like us they have more food waste
because I'd like us to be more prosperous.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We're already eating the wonky fruit.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, yeah, we are, like you literally are are you
buying it at the supermarket? It's called the odd bunch? Hey, Liam,
what do you think of this key we saver policy
from the nets? You like it?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I think it's good policy, it's inevitable, it's probably the
phasing is good. It's probably a good template about how
we have to do the national superannuation too. But look,
I mean, look, I'm forty, I'm forty next next year,
and I've just in all my life I've always thought, looked,
it has to be care we favor because there's just
not going to be enough money through through national superannuation
(02:35):
when it comes to me and we have to get
serious about it. And I'm a complete convert on KIV saver.
I was against it when it came out, but it's
been a real success story. And actually it's going to
be the thing that's going to have to save us
because it's just too politically impossible to really reform superannuation.
This is the step in the right direction. I'm not
sure how politically popular it's going to be, if you
(02:56):
you know, I mean, it's it is taking money out
of your week to week paid. You're telling people that
they can't manage that for themselves, but it's a necessity.
So I'm not sure if it's great politics, but it's
good economics.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I mean I think Liam's onto something which is Joseph,
which is that it is going to have to save us,
probably from the pension situation. But it's only going to
save us if we make a compulsory Are you okay
with the government making it compulsory at six percent from
you and six percent from the employer.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So I'm not in favor of making it compulsory for
two reasons. One is that sometimes businesses want to just
plow their money into their business and they know how
best to spend their own money. I mean, God, I'm
sounding like Liam here, and it's true, they know best
how to spend their own money. And also you might
have some people who just can't put away twelve percent
or something. But the other thing I would say, and
(03:44):
that's interesting Liam, that you said that, because I remember
running can we say the campaign pay parntal lead campaigns
and so on? Four weeks minimum annual leave. Then that
hated these policies now, and I think it's a really
good thing that now we have a kind of cross
party consensus. But saving money is a really good idea.
It's what Australia did one of the reasons they're richer
(04:05):
than us and paper rentally is a good idea and
so four weeks annually. So good to hear you agree
with that, Comrade Liam.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well persue, the politics of it is anything rather than offend.
There soon to be retiring boomers, right, so I think.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Liam, I don't want them to touch my pens, and
either they could bug it off off. I'm not even
a boomer, although maybe I am in my spirit. All Right,
we'll take a break, you guys, come back to the
huddle shortly, head.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Lest the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the
only truly global brand.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Right back with the huddle. Limb here and Joseph Accarney. Liam,
you'll have seen the Taxpayers Union Curier poll about the
inflation adjustment on the CGT and then everybody likes it.
Do you think label will do that or they are
just too greedy for the dollars.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
They definitely won't do it, and don't give them too
much credit for that, because national really have missed the
trick and a lot of inflation indexing. Two, The reality
is that parties of you know, both political parties, both
major political parties, in fact all of them really are
just too tempted to gobble up the bounty of inflation.
(05:13):
And you know, I'm pretty sure the economics of their
labor cgg gets won't stack up without the inflation adjustments.
So just just my way in hell that said, it's
completely fair. It's it's it's completely fear to do it.
They should be doing that for income tax as well.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What's completely fair.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
That's completely fair to index it for inflation. We shouldn't
be taxing people on what they're real especially for realization
based taxes. But it's it's the most fear thing that
could possibly happen too our tax system. That's why it's
popular across the board, both for income tax as well.
But there's too much money and governments will never give
up that ability to easily increase taxes without having to
(05:54):
tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
You'd agree that agree with that a Josie, Well.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Not, but everybody wants to pay less tax, right, So
if you ask people do you think it should be
inflation index they'll all say, yes, I want to pay less,
and but Liam, you're right that if you're going to
do it for capital gains tax, then you have to
do it for income tax too and that. But the
problem then is that we always have a political debate,
don't we about fiscal drag and whether or not to
(06:18):
let inflation increase your tax take. And so that is
a political decision. And I think whether for income tax
or for CGT or any tax, you have to you
have to make that a political decision. You can't just
say we're going to now do inflation indexing for every
tax because the tax take would massively drop, and then
you've got to work out what you're going to cut.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
One correction, it's not about paying less, it's about paying
the same. It's not wanting to pay more. That's the
whole point of the indexation is to keep it real
and constant. Terms like the idea that indexation is some
kind of tax cut, which is what Labor said in
the past, is just wrong. It's just not right.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But there is always a debate, isn't there a monk
political parties as to whether or not you're going to
let the fiscal drag go on or whether you're going
to have sort of bring in the brackets and adjust it.
So what I'm saying is that those have to be
political discussions and we have to vote on what we
want or not. If you make it a law or
a rule that you're going to you're going to index
(07:19):
every attax to inflmation, then you're going to have some
massive questions to answer, which is how the hell you're
going to pay for stuff now?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
But it is done elsewhere, It's under the United States,
for example, and it's been a game changer for the
low text cause, which is which is probably why if
you say it's a political decision.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Liam, can you explain why everybody's heading on in New
Zealand this.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Week or well, you know, like you get Josey to that,
I'll get my thoughts on that.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Okay, go Josie. Why is everybody in New Zealand this weekend?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh? God, where do I start? So the service is
bloody awful? I mean, you go on, I've had flights
canceled and then I've ended up in christ Church instead
of Auckland for bloody hours, hours and hours at midnight
or three am and then wait for flight at five am.
They lose your bags and then they give you a
thirty dollars option. So the service is low budget. The
(08:16):
price is so expensive. But wherever there's a wonderful airline
and I'm a great stand of air chatterms, I have
to say, but whether it's an air Chatters or a
jet Star competing, especially Jetstar, then suddenly Air New Zealand's
prices go down. So I just feel like they're taking
us for a ride and they're going to it's going
to hurt them because if you get more players coming in,
(08:37):
air chatterms grows, jet Star starts to take up more
customers than they're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Liam.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Do you fly the Orange Bird?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yes, I mean I'm.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
About too though. How far away are you from flying
the Orange Bird?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, we don't have I've never had too many issues
personally with the New Zealand. It might because pals Off
Airport's so excellent that, you know, like it, they never
really ever have any problems. But the but the issue
was this year is what's sort of frustrating to me
is that it's exactly what Josie said about, you know,
the need when the competition they they up their game
(09:13):
and they reduce their prices until that competition is driven
out of the You know, it's like this natural monopoly
that that you know, you can only ever periodically you
have good airline service because it's only depends on whether
or not they're trying to drive someone out or not.
So I think, you know, there's certain structure all there
that has to be looked at.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, can I say one thing, Heather. They're also changing
that the miles frequent miles plans, and so you can't
get into the crow club anymore by flying lots. I
have spent years. I've literally brought my kids up in
the Corrow clubs who hoover the free food, but the
all blacks for autographs. That's stealing that away from us.
Now it's going to make it harder, not fair.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I know, everything everything good. First they took the newspapers,
then they took the cups that you could take on
the plane. Now they're taking the current club away all together. Guys,
thanks very much, appreciate it. JOSEPHGANI Liam here are huddle for.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
More from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to News
Talk Set B from four p m. Weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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