August 13, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland Councillor Maurice Williamson and Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Jacinda Ardern, Chris Hipkins, Grant Robertson have all declined to be interviewed publicly by the Covid inquiry. Should they have fronted?
Did Chlöe Swarbrick deserve to get booted out of Parliament today? Should she have apologised? What did we make of Debbie Ngarewa-Packer dropping the C-word in Parliament?
The Education Minister is cutting Māori words from five-year-olds' school phonics books. Is this a bad look?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Unique Homes
uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Do we have the huddle with us right now? Morris Williamson,
Auckland councilor, former National Minister and also Jack Tame, host
of Saturday mornings on ZB and Q and A High Lads,
We're going to come back to this if we have
a chance. Morris just sind it, Chippy Grant Aisha All
refused to front for the COVID inquiry.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Your reaction, Well, I've got a strong view on that.
They took some terribly tough decisions. They put New Zealanders
through a hell of a lot. The second lockdown on
Auckland was I think criminal. I think they got to
be able to come back and say why and say
we did it because and here's the results we achieved
and really explain themselves. Because they're hiding and saying, oh,
(00:42):
we won't come an answer. It suggests that they think
they got it very badly wrong and would only come
out the wrong side of it.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I mean that's a very good point, isn't it, Jack.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I mean they still have to give evidence, right, and
they still have to be interviewed. They've all agreed to that.
But I think, actually, I mean I agree, I think
it would be ideal.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Haven't they already done it.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Jack for a full account, Yeah, they have, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And already it was the deposition's version, right, So they
did the pre interview ahead of what was expected to
be the main interview. And then once they've done the
pre interview, they said, oh yeah, now you're not going
to get the main interview. So that's only a half job.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Okay, Well, if the people heading up the inquiry desire them,
they're in person, they also have the opportunity to summon them.
Just just let me make the point though, I think
sadly it's just a continuation of an over politicization of
the whole Commission of Inquiry process. So I think like
the Phase one of the Commission of Inquiry, I think
missed out a couple of critical points, Like I think
(01:37):
it was really a poor call not to include decisions
about monetary policy in phase one. I think it was
a poor call not to consider vaccine efficacy in phase one.
And I was broadly supportive of Phase two except when
I saw the terms of reference, and Phase two only
starts from February twenty twenty one. I think if we
as a public were to have a proper, comprehensive accounting
(02:01):
of the COVID decisions and how they were made, you'd
go from when the vaccine first emerged the whole way through.
You'd include the period in which New Zealand first ministers
were part of the government. You'd include the period in
which just Sindre and Chippy might say they made really
good decisions, and you'd include some of the big mistakes.
And I think sadly this has kind of been over
(02:22):
politicized on the word gun. Can I just simplify quickly.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
If I was a minister who had done what had
happened over the few years and the damaged under the
economy that we're still feeling and inflation and explosions of expenditure,
I'd actually want to come on and say we did
it because these were the outcomes we wanted to achieve
and we did. And the idea that you're not prepared
to I mean, I jump at the chance to try
(02:48):
to justify it. Even if the public thought I was wrong,
You've got a chance to explain why and why you
wouldn't take that. I just don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, well it's not good for the brand overseas as it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Were with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the ones fun
lashed results.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Right, you're back with the huddle, Jack Taymer, Morris Williamson
are with us. Jack did Chloe we deserve a week suspensions?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
It feels a bit harsh.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, I think it's actually a bad call from the speaker.
I think largely the speakers then has done such a
good job during a pretty tricky term in parliament. But no,
I think serious, I think it's I think yeah, I
think I think it's done a pretty reasonable job.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And Morris, no, no, Look, look you just talked about
bringing up your little baby and teaching them things. One
of the things you teach your kids is you don't
say if you care I'm doing that, I'm going to
send you to your room, and then they care on
doing it, keep on doing that. He does that every day.
He says, if this carries on, if you keep speaking
like that, I'm going to sorry and one, you know,
(03:44):
day after day, and then finally when he does something,
he does it with a mega ton bomb rather than is.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
He going to sack that hard Hey, you know what
Gunny is sucking is Morris. It's when you put up
with the crap that they're giving you and then you
just come at them with the lad It's not even
a wooden spoon at this stage. It's like the biggest
thing you can find.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Would have been better to have taken a few more
steps along the way up to this point, and I
don't think you'd have ended up. I mean that so
many members of paramasponing they say, oh, we don't care.
Deary's not serious. He never throws people out, he just
threatens it.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, but anyway, Jack, listen, sorry we've spoken of you,
but I'm going to put this down to you just
being a really nice guy.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
But carry on.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, no, I mean perfectly plays in clothes hands. She's
able to make it a point all the more forcefully.
I'm sure at the moment he sees you'll be out
for a week yesterday, she was secretly delighted in knowing that, yeah, yeah,
that megaton bomb was going to turn into a megaphone
for her. And so yeah, politically it's probably been que a.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Few agree Okay, but okay, so Jack, I know that
I mean the spineless you're not allowed to say somebody
is spineless in the house. There are rules around that,
and you are you are directing it at people, which
is different to just dropping the sea bomb. But to
the average person looking at this, the fact that the
sea bomb is okay and spineless, isn't it looks ridiculous,
doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I agree, No, I think it's crazy. If she's think
about for a week, I think it's just totally excessive.
And yeah, I don't think there's kind of consistency there.
I mean, there are so many worse things you could
be called, and I just don't have an issue.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
How Morris do you tidy up the standards in Parliament?
If you don't, if you allow this kind of weird
thing to happen where you could just drop the sea
bomb casually if you want to, well.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
What you have to do is nip it in the bud.
And this for months after months. I'm one of these
sad souls who at ten o'clock at night, after I've
got everything done, I often watch question Time and I
just see Jerry threatening over some days, seven twelve to
fifteen times. I'll throw you'll be gone the member, and
he never does well, what that just does is crewdit
environment where people just carry on misbehaving, doing what they like,
(05:38):
saying what they want. I think if you'd nip things
in the bard Dowell there and said you carry on
doing that, you're out, and if someone did it, you
say right, you're gone, then people would realize he was serious.
I'm one of these people who will allow my opponents
to say whatever the hell they like about me. I'll
die in that. It's defending their right to say it.
So I'm not a big censorship person, but you do
have to have standards in parliament and I think you know,
(06:01):
saying people are going to look for a backbone is
a breach of the standards. But so so, I guess
is a c word although you're only quoting what somebody
else said, rather than was a journalist that said it
and she was quite No, it's there is a.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Difference, no, I know, in one you're quoting what somebody
said and in the other you are accusing members on
the opposite side of sorry.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
That's the difference.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
That's the difference.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That's the kind of nuance thet Anyway, listen, Jack, I
haven't got long, but I know you're going to be
hot on this, So I want to hear what you've
got to say. Do you think taking kobu Maori out
of what year one to three reading books is okay?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
I just don't think it's a good use of the
Education Minister's time. I think this is a case of
everyone leaning a bit too hard into their personal issues.
I think Erica Standard is totally committed to structured literacy.
That's fantastic, But do we really need her pussing over
a couple of words and a couple of books of
five year olds? Probably not. On the other side of
the equation, to suggest that this is some evidence of
(06:52):
like a grand scheme to suppress the Maori language is
just totally disingenuous when the Minister has demonstrably done things
to support in today. Ol Maldi So I just think
everyone needs to come a farm of it.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What do you think, Maris?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah? No, I think I agree with them.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Jack.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Do you know what the word corpico means? Collo pico
colpico's k o p i ko copico.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I tried out Tama Potacker, and I tried out Shane
Jones because they both fluent. They didn't but at have
picked big signs up around our saying waka corpico, and
it turns out that's the direction is where the fairies are.
And this is where I start to depart with things.
If you're going to use language that even fluent Malori
speakers don't know what the word means, the sign should
(07:38):
be saying fairies and so. And when I set up
twenty three Maori radio stations, I set up to Areo
Kokopuaki Rangi, which you'll know as to Mamapaho. I was
a big fan of getting to promotion of Terreo and
really getting it going. But what I'm really concerned about
is mixing it in and having some words English, some
words Maori, because I think if you come back in
(07:58):
twenty year's time, you may have such a pitch in English.
No tourists, no foreigner sitting here with listening to our
news or watching us will have a bloody clue what
those words mean.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Guys, it's wonderful to talk to you. Thank you, Jack
Tame Morris Williamson.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Unique Homes
uniquely for you.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Do we have the huddle with us right now? Morris Williamson,
Auckland councilor, former National Minister and also Jack Tame, host
of Saturday mornings on ZB and Q and A High Lads,
We're going to come back to this if we have
a chance. Morris just sind it, Chippy Grant Aisha All
refused to front for the COVID inquiry.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Your reaction, Well, I've got a strong view on that.
They took some terribly tough decisions. They put New Zealanders
through a hell of a lot. The second lockdown on
Auckland was I think criminal. I think they got to
be able to come back and say why and say
we did it because and here's the results we achieved
and really explain themselves. Because they're hiding and saying, oh,
(00:42):
we won't come an answer. It suggests that they think
they got it very badly wrong and would only come
out the wrong side of it.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I mean that's a very good point, isn't it, Jack.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I mean they still have to give evidence, right, and
they still have to be interviewed. They've all agreed to that.
But I think, actually, I mean I agree, I think
it would be ideal.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Haven't they already done it.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Jack for a full account, Yeah, they have, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And already it was the deposition's version, right, So they
did the pre interview ahead of what was expected to
be the main interview. And then once they've done the
pre interview, they said, oh yeah, now you're not going
to get the main interview. So that's only a half job.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Okay, Well, if the people heading up the inquiry desire them,
they're in person, they also have the opportunity to summon them.
Just just let me make the point though, I think
sadly it's just a continuation of an over politicization of
the whole Commission of Inquiry process. So I think like
the Phase one of the Commission of Inquiry, I think
missed out a couple of critical points, Like I think
(01:37):
it was really a poor call not to include decisions
about monetary policy in phase one. I think it was
a poor call not to consider vaccine efficacy in phase one.
And I was broadly supportive of Phase two except when
I saw the terms of reference, and Phase two only
starts from February twenty twenty one. I think if we
as a public were to have a proper, comprehensive accounting
(02:01):
of the COVID decisions and how they were made, you'd
go from when the vaccine first emerged the whole way through.
You'd include the period in which New Zealand first ministers
were part of the government. You'd include the period in
which just Sindre and Chippy might say they made really
good decisions, and you'd include some of the big mistakes.
And I think sadly this has kind of been over
(02:22):
politicized on the word gun. Can I just simplify quickly.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
If I was a minister who had done what had
happened over the few years and the damaged under the
economy that we're still feeling and inflation and explosions of expenditure,
I'd actually want to come on and say we did
it because these were the outcomes we wanted to achieve
and we did. And the idea that you're not prepared
to I mean, I jump at the chance to try
(02:48):
to justify it. Even if the public thought I was wrong,
You've got a chance to explain why and why you
wouldn't take that. I just don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, well it's not good for the brand overseas as it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Were with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the ones fun
lashed results.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Right, you're back with the huddle, Jack Taymer, Morris Williamson
are with us. Jack did Chloe we deserve a week suspensions?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
It feels a bit harsh.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, I think it's actually a bad call from the speaker.
I think largely the speakers then has done such a
good job during a pretty tricky term in parliament. But no,
I think serious, I think it's I think yeah, I
think I think it's done a pretty reasonable job.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And Morris, no, no, Look, look you just talked about
bringing up your little baby and teaching them things. One
of the things you teach your kids is you don't
say if you care I'm doing that, I'm going to
send you to your room, and then they care on
doing it, keep on doing that. He does that every day.
He says, if this carries on, if you keep speaking
like that, I'm going to sorry and one, you know,
(03:44):
day after day, and then finally when he does something,
he does it with a mega ton bomb rather than is.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
He going to sack that hard Hey, you know what
Gunny is sucking is Morris. It's when you put up
with the crap that they're giving you and then you
just come at them with the lad It's not even
a wooden spoon at this stage. It's like the biggest
thing you can find.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Would have been better to have taken a few more
steps along the way up to this point, and I
don't think you'd have ended up. I mean that so
many members of paramasponing they say, oh, we don't care.
Deary's not serious. He never throws people out, he just
threatens it.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, but anyway, Jack, listen, sorry we've spoken of you,
but I'm going to put this down to you just
being a really nice guy.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
But carry on.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, no, I mean perfectly plays in clothes hands. She's
able to make it a point all the more forcefully.
I'm sure at the moment he sees you'll be out
for a week yesterday, she was secretly delighted in knowing that, yeah, yeah,
that megaton bomb was going to turn into a megaphone
for her. And so yeah, politically it's probably been que a.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Few agree Okay, but okay, so Jack, I know that
I mean the spineless you're not allowed to say somebody
is spineless in the house. There are rules around that,
and you are you are directing it at people, which
is different to just dropping the sea bomb. But to
the average person looking at this, the fact that the
sea bomb is okay and spineless, isn't it looks ridiculous,
doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I agree, No, I think it's crazy. If she's think
about for a week, I think it's just totally excessive.
And yeah, I don't think there's kind of consistency there.
I mean, there are so many worse things you could
be called, and I just don't have an issue.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
How Morris do you tidy up the standards in Parliament?
If you don't, if you allow this kind of weird
thing to happen where you could just drop the sea
bomb casually if you want to, well.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
What you have to do is nip it in the bud.
And this for months after months. I'm one of these
sad souls who at ten o'clock at night, after I've
got everything done, I often watch question Time and I
just see Jerry threatening over some days, seven twelve to
fifteen times. I'll throw you'll be gone the member, and
he never does well, what that just does is crewdit
environment where people just carry on misbehaving, doing what they like,
(05:38):
saying what they want. I think if you'd nip things
in the bard Dowell there and said you carry on
doing that, you're out, and if someone did it, you
say right, you're gone, then people would realize he was serious.
I'm one of these people who will allow my opponents
to say whatever the hell they like about me. I'll
die in that. It's defending their right to say it.
So I'm not a big censorship person, but you do
have to have standards in parliament and I think you know,
(06:01):
saying people are going to look for a backbone is
a breach of the standards. But so so, I guess
is a c word although you're only quoting what somebody
else said, rather than was a journalist that said it
and she was quite No, it's there is a.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Difference, no, I know, in one you're quoting what somebody
said and in the other you are accusing members on
the opposite side of sorry.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
That's the difference.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
That's the difference.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That's the kind of nuance thet Anyway, listen, Jack, I
haven't got long, but I know you're going to be
hot on this, So I want to hear what you've
got to say. Do you think taking kobu Maori out
of what year one to three reading books is okay?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
I just don't think it's a good use of the
Education Minister's time. I think this is a case of
everyone leaning a bit too hard into their personal issues.
I think Erica Standard is totally committed to structured literacy.
That's fantastic, But do we really need her pussing over
a couple of words and a couple of books of
five year olds? Probably not. On the other side of
the equation, to suggest that this is some evidence of
(06:52):
like a grand scheme to suppress the Maori language is
just totally disingenuous when the Minister has demonstrably done things
to support in today. Ol Maldi So I just think
everyone needs to come a farm of it.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What do you think, Maris?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah? No, I think I agree with them.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Jack.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Do you know what the word corpico means? Collo pico
colpico's k o p i ko copico.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I tried out Tama Potacker, and I tried out Shane
Jones because they both fluent. They didn't but at have
picked big signs up around our saying waka corpico, and
it turns out that's the direction is where the fairies are.
And this is where I start to depart with things.
If you're going to use language that even fluent Malori
speakers don't know what the word means, the sign should
(07:38):
be saying fairies and so. And when I set up
twenty three Maori radio stations, I set up to Areo
Kokopuaki Rangi, which you'll know as to Mamapaho. I was
a big fan of getting to promotion of Terreo and
really getting it going. But what I'm really concerned about
is mixing it in and having some words English, some
words Maori, because I think if you come back in
(07:58):
twenty year's time, you may have such a pitch in English.
No tourists, no foreigner sitting here with listening to our
news or watching us will have a bloody clue what
those words mean.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Guys, it's wonderful to talk to you. Thank you, Jack
Tame Morris Williamson.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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