January 27, 2025 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Child Fund CEO Josie Pagani and Kiwiblog writer and Curia pollster David Farrar joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
President Donald Trump is floating the idea of 'cleaning out' Gaza as the ongoing conflict continues. What's going on here?
The Treaty Principles Bill submissions started today - how do we think it went? Was it a constructive day?
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has revealed the Government will loosen visa requirements for digital nomads to help bump the tourism numbers up and grow the economy. Do we think this will work?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Other Huddle Today Jose Pagani from Chavan the CEO and
David Pharaoh from Kiwi Barga Courier posters. Hello people, Hell ill,
let's just talk about what we've just been talking about.
What did you make David of Donald Trump's floating the
idea of clearing out Gaza.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
This is Egypt and Jordan's worst nightmare and will never happen.
Egypt built a wall to keep Palestinians and Gaza out
of Egypt. People forget there's a wall on both sides.
Jordan controlled the West Bank for nineteen years before nineteen
sixty seven. They didn't set up a Palestinian government. They
didn't say to Palestinians, cume liv and Jordan, you can
(00:45):
be part of Jordan, etc. They do not want a
huge influx of Palestinians into Jordan. In Egypt and they
probably have to almost feel sorry for their leaders because
they've seen at home. They think we'll go good relationship
with Trump and then he comes out with this half
for thought and this only having to deal with that.
But at the end of the day, it's just not gain.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, but Josie, as Greg Barton just said, you know,
he starts high, ends out low. He brings in new ideas,
something might happen. And as he said, maybe that the
Saudis might come in and rebuild Gaza for everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Well, we hope this ends up is that the regional
powers around Gaza have got to step up, right, So
that's Egypt, it's Jordan, it's the Saudis, it's Syria. It's
a new leadership in Syria. And hopefully where this ends
up is that, of course it has to be an
Arab led rebuild. It can't be a rebuild that's led
(01:42):
by the US or even the EU, although everybody is
going to have to be part of it. I mean,
as ChildFund Andrew, we're in Garza, we've got partners in
Gaza and we're working, you know, to try and rebuild already,
and it's incredible. I mean, there's fifty million tons of
rubble let alone, the forty two thousand sualties, most of
whom are children and women. So it's a huge, huge
(02:03):
rebuild and it's going to cost about fifty billion, and
you cannot do it without those regional partners there. So
I hope, in this sort of disruptive, obnoxious way that
Trump has of trying to insert himself into global politics,
if we end up in a place where the Arab
states around Gaza are putting pressure on Israel to say, hey,
(02:24):
you have to support the Palestinian authority as an alternative
to Humas. There has to be a government in Palestine
that we can work with, and there has to be
a two state solution.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Vaccinaly, isn't it. Some people think he's a genius, others
think he's just lucky. Whatever, he's certainly interesting. Josey Bigani
and David Farrer are on the huddle today. The Treaty
Principles Bill submissions started and David, you made a submission,
So how did it go and was it constructive?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I was pleasantly surprised that went well, as in all
the questions we're genuinely engaging with my submission, rather than gotchas,
which they often are. And I posed a bit of
a challenge to the MPs because we all know this
bill won't pass. But the point I made is should
Parliament remain silent on what the principles of the tricky
(03:11):
are having stuck it into thirty pieces of legislation and
leave it to judiciary is actually a dereliction of duty.
If you do that, then you're going to get politicized
judges like in the US. So what I said is
why doesn't each political party put forward their own version
of what they think the principles should be and then
(03:31):
start negotiating seeing what common ground there is, and then
you actually can have a debate about what version of
the principle is most correct. But just saying we're going
to do nothing and leave the status crime place, I
think it's a very bad idea. And like I said,
the MP's engaged with that. They talked about the pros
and cons of Parliament are working to define the principles,
(03:56):
which would not necessarily be the principles there are at
that party bill.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, it's good that you found a constructor because Hobbs's
pledge did not. They are annoy that they didn't get
pictures submit on the first day, so they swapped spots
with another group to make sure they were heard. Today
the committee said you responded too late, and Hobbs's pledge
to say no, we know we have the receipts to
prove it. So should they have waited their turn, Josie,
because well, they were going to speak. It's not that
(04:22):
they weren't going to speak, and they claim that they
were being censored and muzzled.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
To be honest, though, Andrew, you know, it's not really
the big issue, is it. I mean, they got to speak.
They can have a little argument behind the scenes as
to who said what when and whose emails were a
record of what happened, But the real issue is exactly
the stuff David was just talking about, which is, you know,
how do we deal with a discussion about the treaty?
(04:48):
And I think the problem with the principle the Treaty
Principal's bill is that it's trying to insert another legal
mechanism into something that's already our constitutional document, i e.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
The Treaty.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
And if you think about the US Constitution, for example,
I mean, imagine the divisions that you or further divisions
you would cause in the US if you suddenly introduced
a bill to interpret the Constitution. So you know, for example,
US Constitution has something like right to bear arms. Well,
they of course they don't mean you can get muskets
and start having vigilante groups like they did in the
(05:21):
you know, seventeen hundreds. What they mean is you've got
a right to own a gun. So Americans can debate that,
you know, and they do all the time about whether
that's something you should or shouldn't do. But you don't
need another legal mechanism to insert in the middle of it,
where you're just going to make things worse. And that's
the problem with this Treaty's Principal Bill. And the other
(05:41):
problem with it is that it's basically a contract. Right.
It's like a trade treaty or a visa free treaty
or whatever. Certain obligations, certain responsibilities have been promised to Mary,
and I would say a really good example of that is,
I know you've been talking about it, Andrew, the charter schools,
which are a devolution to Mary to run their own education.
(06:01):
So there are modern ways of interpreting the treaty without
having this sort of disruptive Treaty's Principal Bill.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Now, the other big thing that happened today is that
Nikola Willis came out and said we can have a
ninety day visa for digital nomads. Now, I have a
problem with this and that digital nomads are already digitally
nomading already. David, So, is this actually going to be
increased numbers that are coming to New Zealand if they're
already doing it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I suspect it will be more legalizing what's happening, because
in theory, if you're here on a tourist visa and
you're spending twenty hours a week in your earbnb doing
work back home, etc. You know, you're working around in
New Zealand. So they're probably already doing it, and this
(06:47):
just means you can now do it without feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Guilty now, of course. But my question, the whole big
thing here is we need short term measures that increase
economic growth. And I'm getting a feeling, just a suspicion
that nobody knows how this will affect you growth because
no one knows the numbers, because nobody knows how many
people are working this way already already.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think that the only thing that we'll do in
terms of economic growth is attract the kind of tourists
that will come here now for you know, longer, so
they can get potentially a nine month visa doing this stuff,
or you know, extend their existing visitor visa, so will
attract a different kind of tourists who, as you say,
they that they're already doing this anyway. I mean I
(07:29):
travel to different countries for work, and I do it
all the time, so they're already doing it. I thought
it was interesting that the OECD has identified a sort
of long term problem with this is that if we
increase the number of digital nomads all over the world
who are basically not paying tax in the country that
they're in, you could actually risk, you know, a decline
(07:51):
in global revenues from income tax.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But very good, Josey beginning, David Farah, you've been brilliant.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Thank you for more from Hither to Plassy Allen Drive.
Listen live to news Talks at b from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Other Huddle Today Jose Pagani from Chavan the CEO and
David Pharaoh from Kiwi Barga Courier posters. Hello people, Hell ill,
let's just talk about what we've just been talking about.
What did you make David of Donald Trump's floating the
idea of clearing out Gaza.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
This is Egypt and Jordan's worst nightmare and will never happen.
Egypt built a wall to keep Palestinians and Gaza out
of Egypt. People forget there's a wall on both sides.
Jordan controlled the West Bank for nineteen years before nineteen
sixty seven. They didn't set up a Palestinian government. They
didn't say to Palestinians, cume liv and Jordan, you can
(00:45):
be part of Jordan, etc. They do not want a
huge influx of Palestinians into Jordan. In Egypt and they
probably have to almost feel sorry for their leaders because
they've seen at home. They think we'll go good relationship
with Trump and then he comes out with this half
for thought and this only having to deal with that.
But at the end of the day, it's just not gain.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, but Josie, as Greg Barton just said, you know,
he starts high, ends out low. He brings in new ideas,
something might happen. And as he said, maybe that the
Saudis might come in and rebuild Gaza for everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Well, we hope this ends up is that the regional
powers around Gaza have got to step up, right, So
that's Egypt, it's Jordan, it's the Saudis, it's Syria. It's
a new leadership in Syria. And hopefully where this ends
up is that, of course it has to be an
Arab led rebuild. It can't be a rebuild that's led
(01:42):
by the US or even the EU, although everybody is
going to have to be part of it. I mean,
as ChildFund Andrew, we're in Garza, we've got partners in
Gaza and we're working, you know, to try and rebuild already,
and it's incredible. I mean, there's fifty million tons of
rubble let alone, the forty two thousand sualties, most of
whom are children and women. So it's a huge, huge
(02:03):
rebuild and it's going to cost about fifty billion, and
you cannot do it without those regional partners there. So
I hope, in this sort of disruptive, obnoxious way that
Trump has of trying to insert himself into global politics,
if we end up in a place where the Arab
states around Gaza are putting pressure on Israel to say, hey,
(02:24):
you have to support the Palestinian authority as an alternative
to Humas. There has to be a government in Palestine
that we can work with, and there has to be
a two state solution.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Vaccinaly, isn't it. Some people think he's a genius, others
think he's just lucky. Whatever, he's certainly interesting. Josey Bigani
and David Farrer are on the huddle today. The Treaty
Principles Bill submissions started and David, you made a submission,
So how did it go and was it constructive?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I was pleasantly surprised that went well, as in all
the questions we're genuinely engaging with my submission, rather than gotchas,
which they often are. And I posed a bit of
a challenge to the MPs because we all know this
bill won't pass. But the point I made is should
Parliament remain silent on what the principles of the tricky
(03:11):
are having stuck it into thirty pieces of legislation and
leave it to judiciary is actually a dereliction of duty.
If you do that, then you're going to get politicized
judges like in the US. So what I said is
why doesn't each political party put forward their own version
of what they think the principles should be and then
(03:31):
start negotiating seeing what common ground there is, and then
you actually can have a debate about what version of
the principle is most correct. But just saying we're going
to do nothing and leave the status crime place, I
think it's a very bad idea. And like I said,
the MP's engaged with that. They talked about the pros
and cons of Parliament are working to define the principles,
(03:56):
which would not necessarily be the principles there are at
that party bill.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, it's good that you found a constructor because Hobbs's
pledge did not. They are annoy that they didn't get
pictures submit on the first day, so they swapped spots
with another group to make sure they were heard. Today
the committee said you responded too late, and Hobbs's pledge
to say no, we know we have the receipts to
prove it. So should they have waited their turn, Josie,
because well, they were going to speak. It's not that
(04:22):
they weren't going to speak, and they claim that they
were being censored and muzzled.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
To be honest, though, Andrew, you know, it's not really
the big issue, is it. I mean, they got to speak.
They can have a little argument behind the scenes as
to who said what when and whose emails were a
record of what happened, But the real issue is exactly
the stuff David was just talking about, which is, you know,
how do we deal with a discussion about the treaty?
(04:48):
And I think the problem with the principle the Treaty
Principal's bill is that it's trying to insert another legal
mechanism into something that's already our constitutional document, i e.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
The Treaty.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
And if you think about the US Constitution, for example,
I mean, imagine the divisions that you or further divisions
you would cause in the US if you suddenly introduced
a bill to interpret the Constitution. So you know, for example,
US Constitution has something like right to bear arms. Well,
they of course they don't mean you can get muskets
and start having vigilante groups like they did in the
(05:21):
you know, seventeen hundreds. What they mean is you've got
a right to own a gun. So Americans can debate that,
you know, and they do all the time about whether
that's something you should or shouldn't do. But you don't
need another legal mechanism to insert in the middle of it,
where you're just going to make things worse. And that's
the problem with this Treaty's Principal Bill. And the other
(05:41):
problem with it is that it's basically a contract. Right.
It's like a trade treaty or a visa free treaty
or whatever. Certain obligations, certain responsibilities have been promised to Mary,
and I would say a really good example of that is,
I know you've been talking about it, Andrew, the charter schools,
which are a devolution to Mary to run their own education.
(06:01):
So there are modern ways of interpreting the treaty without
having this sort of disruptive Treaty's Principal Bill.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Now, the other big thing that happened today is that
Nikola Willis came out and said we can have a
ninety day visa for digital nomads. Now, I have a
problem with this and that digital nomads are already digitally
nomading already. David, So, is this actually going to be
increased numbers that are coming to New Zealand if they're
already doing it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I suspect it will be more legalizing what's happening, because
in theory, if you're here on a tourist visa and
you're spending twenty hours a week in your earbnb doing
work back home, etc. You know, you're working around in
New Zealand. So they're probably already doing it, and this
(06:47):
just means you can now do it without feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Guilty now, of course. But my question, the whole big
thing here is we need short term measures that increase
economic growth. And I'm getting a feeling, just a suspicion
that nobody knows how this will affect you growth because
no one knows the numbers, because nobody knows how many
people are working this way already already.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think that the only thing that we'll do in
terms of economic growth is attract the kind of tourists
that will come here now for you know, longer, so
they can get potentially a nine month visa doing this stuff,
or you know, extend their existing visitor visa, so will
attract a different kind of tourists who, as you say,
they that they're already doing this anyway. I mean I
(07:29):
travel to different countries for work, and I do it
all the time, so they're already doing it. I thought
it was interesting that the OECD has identified a sort
of long term problem with this is that if we
increase the number of digital nomads all over the world
who are basically not paying tax in the country that
they're in, you could actually risk, you know, a decline
(07:51):
in global revenues from income tax.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But very good, Josey beginning, David Farah, you've been brilliant.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Thank you for more from Hither to Plassy Allen Drive.
Listen live to news Talks at b from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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