Chris Hipkins won't commit to appearing before the second phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into New Zealand's Covid response.
The Labour leader earlier said the terms of reference for the second stage - which is currently underway - provide a platform for conspiracies.
NZ Herald political editor Thomas Coughlan says Hipkins has some good points - but the Government at the time did make decisions that intruded on people's rights.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're on News talksb has just gone quarter to five.
So on an interview with The Herald Now with Me
this morning, Chris Hepkins came out and said, basically, the
COVID inquiry is platforming conspiracy theorists and he's not sure
whether he'll attend, even though they have asked or shown
interest in him attending and at least answering some questions.
Thomas Coglan is The Herald's political editor. He's with me now, Hi, Thomas. Okay, Ryan,
(00:22):
what did you make of Chippe's approach.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, it's certainly quite combative. I mean, I think he
has a point about the fact that the terms of
reference beginning in twenty twenty one, which would exclude twenty twenty,
the year that New Zealand First is part of the government.
I think he's got a point about that, like the
Royal Commission should take into consideration all decisions made during
(00:46):
the COVID period. But in terms of platforming those around
those people have conspiracy theorist views. I mean, the government
made incredibly intrusive decisions into the live of a lot
of people. Now, many of those people would have used
about things like vaccination that a lot of people would
(01:07):
regard as being conspiracy theories, like, you know, vaccination is effective,
it works, you know, that is just a factive life.
People who don't believe in that, I would argue that
is a conspiracy theory. But it's also true that those
people have every you know, the same rights that you
and I have, the same rights that all people have,
and the government made decisions that intruded upon those rights.
(01:29):
And I think a government has to and people part
of that government do have an obligation to stand up
and justify those decisions. And I think you know, you
can ask. I'm sure Crisipkins probably will eventually he can.
There is a justification for them. Whether or not those
that justifications accepted, well, you know, that's that's something that
will be decided in the future. But certainly, I think
(01:51):
you have an obligation as a decision maker in that
time to answer those questions.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, and do you not run the risk of I
mean this Labour's problem last time, right, they ostracized people,
they othered them, They lost Auckland because they did this.
They didn't understand the depth of feeling here. Does he
run the risk of reigniting those old wounds. I mean, yes,
I do.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I mean particularly in Auckland, where I think and I
have acknowledge that they lost you know, they really lost
Auckland and they have an Auckland problem. And he's spending
a lot of time up there. Barbara Edmonds is also
spending a lot of time up there, and you do,
I think you do. There does need to be eventually
this sort of issue needs to be put to bed.
(02:36):
And maybe maybe part of it is the fact is
sort of answering to some of those concerns saying your
peace and the people, you know, the people who he's
anxious about being platformed, they might want to have their
piece as well.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, hey, first three Waters entity.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah so and so this is this is the first
three waters entity under the new three waters system. The
last government had there three waters entities legislated and then
they were disbanded. So this is the sort of the
new voluntary system that the Coalition has has has set up.
So Selwyn's the first council in the country's launch its
(03:16):
new water services entity, Selwyn Water Wellington Wellington, which I mean,
let's face it, Wellington's on the naughty list as far
as water water services is. Concerned. Wellington's Metro water is
also is also getting started as well. And that's a
that's a covers covers a large number of councils in
a large number of councils in the Wellington region. So
(03:36):
so I have to say, as a Wellingtonian, I'm very
interested to see whether they managed to fix the pipes.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, I'd be nice, wouldn't it. Hey, what about rate capping?
This has been in the news today. Is this anything
we actually need to pay attention to, the Government's not
actually doing it yet?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Are they that they are? They are looking at it,
and they've said that they will that they are, you know,
continuing to work on it. Chris Hepkins was saying this
morning that he thinks it's not a great idea, disagrees
with it, and and and and basically said that the
reason the governments looking at rate capping as rates are
going up because the government xed the three waters reforms
(04:11):
that Labor was was putting into force. I think the
current government is keen to look at rate camping because
once once water services are lifted off council balance sheets,
then there is a risk that councils may use that
headroom to rate, to put up rates, and and and
continue to put up rates and spend the money on
things that that perps wouldn't be counted as core services.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah yeah, yeah, good point, Thomas. Thank you very much
for that. Good to have you on the show as always,
Thomas Coglan, the New Zealand Herald Political Editor. For more
from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're on News talksb has just gone quarter to five.
So on an interview with The Herald Now with Me
this morning, Chris Hepkins came out and said, basically, the
COVID inquiry is platforming conspiracy theorists and he's not sure
whether he'll attend, even though they have asked or shown
interest in him attending and at least answering some questions.
Thomas Coglan is The Herald's political editor. He's with me now, Hi, Thomas. Okay, Ryan,
(00:22):
what did you make of Chippe's approach.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, it's certainly quite combative. I mean, I think he
has a point about the fact that the terms of
reference beginning in twenty twenty one, which would exclude twenty twenty,
the year that New Zealand First is part of the government.
I think he's got a point about that, like the
Royal Commission should take into consideration all decisions made during
(00:46):
the COVID period. But in terms of platforming those around
those people have conspiracy theorist views. I mean, the government
made incredibly intrusive decisions into the live of a lot
of people. Now, many of those people would have used
about things like vaccination that a lot of people would
(01:07):
regard as being conspiracy theories, like, you know, vaccination is effective,
it works, you know, that is just a factive life.
People who don't believe in that, I would argue that
is a conspiracy theory. But it's also true that those
people have every you know, the same rights that you
and I have, the same rights that all people have,
and the government made decisions that intruded upon those rights.
(01:29):
And I think a government has to and people part
of that government do have an obligation to stand up
and justify those decisions. And I think you know, you
can ask. I'm sure Crisipkins probably will eventually he can.
There is a justification for them. Whether or not those
that justifications accepted, well, you know, that's that's something that
will be decided in the future. But certainly, I think
(01:51):
you have an obligation as a decision maker in that
time to answer those questions.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, and do you not run the risk of I
mean this Labour's problem last time, right, they ostracized people,
they othered them, They lost Auckland because they did this.
They didn't understand the depth of feeling here. Does he
run the risk of reigniting those old wounds. I mean, yes,
I do.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I mean particularly in Auckland, where I think and I
have acknowledge that they lost you know, they really lost
Auckland and they have an Auckland problem. And he's spending
a lot of time up there. Barbara Edmonds is also
spending a lot of time up there, and you do,
I think you do. There does need to be eventually
this sort of issue needs to be put to bed.
(02:36):
And maybe maybe part of it is the fact is
sort of answering to some of those concerns saying your
peace and the people, you know, the people who he's
anxious about being platformed, they might want to have their
piece as well.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, hey, first three Waters entity.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah so and so this is this is the first
three waters entity under the new three waters system. The
last government had there three waters entities legislated and then
they were disbanded. So this is the sort of the
new voluntary system that the Coalition has has has set up.
So Selwyn's the first council in the country's launch its
(03:16):
new water services entity, Selwyn Water Wellington Wellington, which I mean,
let's face it, Wellington's on the naughty list as far
as water water services is. Concerned. Wellington's Metro water is
also is also getting started as well. And that's a
that's a covers covers a large number of councils in
a large number of councils in the Wellington region. So
(03:36):
so I have to say, as a Wellingtonian, I'm very
interested to see whether they managed to fix the pipes.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, I'd be nice, wouldn't it. Hey, what about rate capping?
This has been in the news today. Is this anything
we actually need to pay attention to, the Government's not
actually doing it yet?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Are they that they are? They are looking at it,
and they've said that they will that they are, you know,
continuing to work on it. Chris Hepkins was saying this
morning that he thinks it's not a great idea, disagrees
with it, and and and and basically said that the
reason the governments looking at rate capping as rates are
going up because the government xed the three waters reforms
(04:11):
that Labor was was putting into force. I think the
current government is keen to look at rate camping because
once once water services are lifted off council balance sheets,
then there is a risk that councils may use that
headroom to rate, to put up rates, and and and
continue to put up rates and spend the money on
things that that perps wouldn't be counted as core services.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah yeah, yeah, good point, Thomas. Thank you very much
for that. Good to have you on the show as always,
Thomas Coglan, the New Zealand Herald Political Editor. For more
from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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