Thomas Coughlan: NZ Herald political editor on Luxon defending earlier claims that Israel's leader has 'lost the plot'

Chris Luxon is defending saying Israel's leader has 'lost the plot' in the face of pushback.

The Prime Minister criticised Benjamin Netanyahu over the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where people are starving.

Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister responded that Luxon can't comprehend the challenges of facing Hamas.

NZ Herald political editor Thomas Coughlan says Luxon's put his own views out there - in a change of pace from factoring in Winston Peters and David Seymour. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor, is in for Bari.
So but today, hey Thomas, afternoon, Thomas, how's some Luxe
and feeling about the spat he's got himself into with
members of the Israeli government.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yes, this is this is quite the spat sparked yesterday.
A reporter of ours, jamuns Or, asked Luxon what he
thought about the unfolding situation in Gaza, and said that Benyminnhnyahoo,
the Israeli leader, had lost the plot. The Israeli Deputy
Foreign Affairs Minister Sharon Haskell responded in a tweet this morning,
a missive really about the dangers of her mass and

(00:33):
how Christoph Lackson has a luxury not of not not
to think about about terror groups given New Zealand's isolation
and uh and and uh and and relative peace. Christoph
Lackson is not really not backing down, and he stands
by what he said. It's his personal view, So I
think he's he's feeling pretty solid. I think he's actually
enjoying the opportunity to put a line in the sand
on the Israel Gaza issue. He's obviously constrained to webit

(00:55):
by his coalition partners. So he does seem to be
enjoying the opportunity to just put his own personal view
out there distinct from that of David Sema and Winston Peter's.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Is it remarkable to you? I mean, I find it
quite incredible that the thing of all the things that
we have done in this country and our leaders have
done in order to put pressure on Israel, this is
the thing that's actually having the best effect.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, that is quite remarkable. It is it is a
way that Israel seems to be conducting its foreign affairs
at the moment. The Australians have had a broad side
from Israel. I think the Canadians and the Brits got
one recently too, over their decision to recognize the Palestinian state.
It's Israel is sort of adapting to that, quite boisterous

(01:38):
and a wee bit unhinged, if I may say so,
a way of doing foreign affairs, which is the very
twentieth first century, very Donald Trump. That's the sort of
way they do things now. So perhaps not surprising on
their side of things, I think it is a wee
bit unusual on our side of things. We tend to
keep our heads down a wee bit so so yeah,
quite quite unusual, now do you.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Think, I mean, can the Commission have been quired really
hide behind this non adversarial terms of restference that they
are in order to not summons just in detail?

Speaker 2 (02:08):
I wonder that is very good question, and I wonder
whether it would do more harm than good to summons her.
Forcing someone to come against their will before a Royal commission.
That is, that is quite a big step. But it
is certainly within their power. But it would certainly that
would that would be quite an ugly Look.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Why would it do harm? What is the harm that
it would do?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well? I think that they are cooperating with the inquiry.
They've cooperated with the first dage of the inquiry, which
they obviously set up themselves. But I wonder whether you
use you already this this second phase I think is
on thin ice because the terms of reference only include
that second labor only term. It doesn't include the New

(02:54):
Zealand first labor term. You don't want the Royal Commission,
I think, to look like a court that was set
up to to dam the reputation of the second term
of the labor because.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I mean, this is the difficulty we find ourselves, and
is that the first part was set up in such
a way that it would not ask the difficult questions
and deal with the difficult things, and then the second
part is therefore forced to deal with the difficult things. Look,
I agree both of them have been us screwing the
scrum in in each of their directions. But in the
middle of it, sits all of us who want answers
to this and are not being certain.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
I know, and this is why, this is why I think.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, if I can make this argument, I actually don't
give a hell about whether it's an ugly look or not.
Just sender owes it to us. We were forced to
do a lot of things we didn't want to do,
so the very bloody least she could do is do
something she doesn't want to do.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I agree. I wish you'd just get on a plane
and show up. I mean, I think their excuse that
it's it's it's convention that ministers don't show up to
these things. I don't think that's correct. Wayne Map showed
up to the Operation Burnham inquiry and inquiry that the
last Labor government set up. It was cheered by a
former Labor Prime minister. He shut up and defended himself

(04:01):
in public on camera. They should just do it, but
for whatever reason, and it is a terrible look. I mean,
justin were doing went on the Oprah Winfrey podcast for
an hour and promoted a book. And if she can
do that and is not afraid of people clipping up
those that that Oprah Winfrey interview and using it in
a misleading way, then she can certainly front up to this.

(04:22):
I think she should just do it. But summonsing someone
is a big step, and you've got in You've got
to be absolutely sure that it's the right one to make.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Is there any is there any hope at all that
the situation may change, or is the decision made and
they're going to stick with it.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think they're going to stick with it. The only
one the most interesting thing that could happen is Chris
Upkins and Aishaviral have a lot to lose because if
they look like that, they're still an act of politics.
Chrisip Can still wants to be Prime minister. If they
look like they're running from this, the net looks pretty
terrible for them, and I think there's evidence that it
is looking terrible for them. I think they were taken
by surprise and how negative the the reaction has been

(05:00):
to it, so I think, and to be honest, Chris
Hopkins loves a scrap. I think he'd actually quite like
to sit down and go through it all. But I
think I personally might you know, just I don't have
any particular insight to this, but my personal thinking is
that he and Ei Shavera are probably sticking with Grant
Robinson and just doing on this out of respect to them.

(05:22):
I think that'd be quite heavy to sit down and
do it.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yep, I think you might well be right. Thank you.
Thomas appreciated that it's Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political leaders.
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