November 26, 2024 • 5 mins
The Transport Agency is telling bus and train providers to take in more money, which could force fare hikes.
Wellington's Regional Council is rejecting the call from NZTA.
Transport Committee Chair Thomas Nash says it would mean unaffordable 70 percent fare increases during a cost of living crisis.
"You'd end up just pushing people back into cars, more people will be on the road and it would be more congested - which I think is the opposite of what we need."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now onto basically the same subject, how much things are
costing you public transport. It looks like bus and train
fares are going to have to go up quite a
lot around the country and in particular Wellington. Wellington appears
to be the only place that's done the numbers. Now,
what's caused this to happen is that the NZTA, the
Transport Agency, has written a letter to all of the
(00:21):
public transport authorities around the country setting new targets for
how much of the cost of public transport they will
have to stump up for as opposed to the government spending. Now,
Thomas Nash is the chair of the Greater Wellington Regional
Council Transport Committee.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Is with us. Now, Hey Thomas, Hey, Heather.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, so have they written to you and said you
guys have to fund a greater proportion or users have
to fund a greater proportion.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
They've said they want the private share to be greater.
So that's the amount of money that pays for public
transport that isn't council rates or MZTA contributions. So that
is mostly fares, but it could also include advertising, which
we we get some money for, and you know, any
other commercial deals you can do as a public transport
(01:05):
authority if you're renting out your premises.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Intactic so you guys could actually make rather than making
putting this on the user of the bus or the train,
it actually can come from some other private sources. You
just need to figure out out.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah you can. And I mean if there's a magic
way of doing that that we're not already doing, we're
very keen to hear about it. We have wrapped entire
train and delivery ezy for Gailia recently. We have doubled
the amount of money that we've got from advertising the
last couple of years, but it's still only about two
percent of the overall revenue we get from fears. So
this is not going to be a real solution. The
(01:41):
implication of the government's plan will absolutely be hitting people
in the back pocket, and during a cost of living crisis,
I think you'd agree that's the last thing we.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Need starting win.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Well, they've said that from next financial year, so that'd
be from the first of July next year. They want
our private share this new concept to increase in a
way that would equate to a seventy one percent increase
in fears Now we're not going to do that. We're
going to push back and we're going to say, hey,
this doesn't make sense because what you'll do if you
if you did that, you would end up just pushing
(02:13):
people back into cars, more people be on the road,
and it would be more congested, which I think is
the opposite of what.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
They cost somebody in Wellington at the moment to catch
let's say a bus.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Let's say yeah, yeah, So like if you it might
cost you ten dollars a day with a return trip,
if you were going a few zones, so the average trip,
so that'd go to seventeen dollars a day. If we
were going to meet this target through through fear, ten
dollars a day return, ten dollars a day return would
go seventeen dollars a day return if we were going
(02:44):
to meet their new target just through fear and creases,
which we won't do.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Like I know, cost of living, and I know I
know that you know, ten dollars a day is a
lot of money when it all adds up, but that's
actually not that bad. I mean, what's seventeen dollars times five,
that's eighty five bucks, is that right? Eighty five five
bucks a week for transport. You're never going to be
able to get in and out of the city with
a car, considering car parking and stuff like that for
eighty five bucks a week, are you?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So what do you what are we saying we want
we want to encourage more people to drive and.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Few No, you know what I'm saying to you is
that's a false argument, because you because even if you
even if you paid seventeen dollars a day, it's still
cheaper than taking your car.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And it should be because we have about three point.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Five you know, totally. But so you're not going to
get in your car, So why amount that argument?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, of but we are because we've seen it before.
As you as you increase fares, you reduce the number
of people on your network. That's just a that's just
a kind of rule of thumb. And if you get
to a point where you go beyond what people are
going to be affording, what people can afford visa v
a car, then they're going to jump in their car.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So do you think at some point it's still slightly
more expensive to take your car, but the convenience is
worth it, and so you pay the extra.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Bit well, yeah, and this is why we have three
point five million trips every month on the public transport network. Now,
think about for a second if those people, even if
half those people decided to drive instead of get the
train or the bus because of this proposal from the
government to increase feares, then your roads at peak time
would be impossible to navigate, and then people will be complaining.
(04:13):
So you have to think about the value, not just
the cost, but the value of public transport. And this
is what the government's getting wrong with this paper. They're
not recognizing the value of public transport to the economy,
to the safe and easy passage of goods through the city.
I mean that stuff is going to suffer if you
(04:34):
push up fears so much that people get.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
What proportion if people are paying ten bucks at the moment,
what proportion of the total fear is that, like, how
much is it being subsidized?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So that is we have what we call fearbox recovery
of around thirty percent, so the amount of and that
is very good internationally.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's maybe like a thirty five dollar trip and they're
paying ten bucks.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, so that's what we and you should do that
calculation for roads especially local roads, and you will find
that the amount that that actual drivers are paying, especially
on a local road, is way below what that costs.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, all right, hey Thomas, thanks for talking us, sir,
I appreciate It's Thomas Nash, heir of the Greater Wellington
Regional Council's Transport Committee. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Now onto basically the same subject, how much things are
costing you public transport. It looks like bus and train
fares are going to have to go up quite a
lot around the country and in particular Wellington. Wellington appears
to be the only place that's done the numbers. Now,
what's caused this to happen is that the NZTA, the
Transport Agency, has written a letter to all of the
(00:21):
public transport authorities around the country setting new targets for
how much of the cost of public transport they will
have to stump up for as opposed to the government spending. Now,
Thomas Nash is the chair of the Greater Wellington Regional
Council Transport Committee.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Is with us. Now, Hey Thomas, Hey, Heather.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, so have they written to you and said you
guys have to fund a greater proportion or users have
to fund a greater proportion.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
They've said they want the private share to be greater.
So that's the amount of money that pays for public
transport that isn't council rates or MZTA contributions. So that
is mostly fares, but it could also include advertising, which
we we get some money for, and you know, any
other commercial deals you can do as a public transport
(01:05):
authority if you're renting out your premises.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Intactic so you guys could actually make rather than making
putting this on the user of the bus or the train,
it actually can come from some other private sources. You
just need to figure out out.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah you can. And I mean if there's a magic
way of doing that that we're not already doing, we're
very keen to hear about it. We have wrapped entire
train and delivery ezy for Gailia recently. We have doubled
the amount of money that we've got from advertising the
last couple of years, but it's still only about two
percent of the overall revenue we get from fears. So
this is not going to be a real solution. The
(01:41):
implication of the government's plan will absolutely be hitting people
in the back pocket, and during a cost of living crisis,
I think you'd agree that's the last thing we.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Need starting win.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Well, they've said that from next financial year, so that'd
be from the first of July next year. They want
our private share this new concept to increase in a
way that would equate to a seventy one percent increase
in fears Now we're not going to do that. We're
going to push back and we're going to say, hey,
this doesn't make sense because what you'll do if you
if you did that, you would end up just pushing
(02:13):
people back into cars, more people be on the road,
and it would be more congested, which I think is
the opposite of what.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
They cost somebody in Wellington at the moment to catch
let's say a bus.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Let's say yeah, yeah, So like if you it might
cost you ten dollars a day with a return trip,
if you were going a few zones, so the average trip,
so that'd go to seventeen dollars a day. If we
were going to meet this target through through fear, ten
dollars a day return, ten dollars a day return would
go seventeen dollars a day return if we were going
(02:44):
to meet their new target just through fear and creases,
which we won't do.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Like I know, cost of living, and I know I
know that you know, ten dollars a day is a
lot of money when it all adds up, but that's
actually not that bad. I mean, what's seventeen dollars times five,
that's eighty five bucks, is that right? Eighty five five
bucks a week for transport. You're never going to be
able to get in and out of the city with
a car, considering car parking and stuff like that for
eighty five bucks a week, are you?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So what do you what are we saying we want
we want to encourage more people to drive and.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Few No, you know what I'm saying to you is
that's a false argument, because you because even if you
even if you paid seventeen dollars a day, it's still
cheaper than taking your car.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And it should be because we have about three point.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Five you know, totally. But so you're not going to
get in your car, So why amount that argument?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, of but we are because we've seen it before.
As you as you increase fares, you reduce the number
of people on your network. That's just a that's just
a kind of rule of thumb. And if you get
to a point where you go beyond what people are
going to be affording, what people can afford visa v
a car, then they're going to jump in their car.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So do you think at some point it's still slightly
more expensive to take your car, but the convenience is
worth it, and so you pay the extra.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Bit well, yeah, and this is why we have three
point five million trips every month on the public transport network. Now,
think about for a second if those people, even if
half those people decided to drive instead of get the
train or the bus because of this proposal from the
government to increase feares, then your roads at peak time
would be impossible to navigate, and then people will be complaining.
(04:13):
So you have to think about the value, not just
the cost, but the value of public transport. And this
is what the government's getting wrong with this paper. They're
not recognizing the value of public transport to the economy,
to the safe and easy passage of goods through the city.
I mean that stuff is going to suffer if you
(04:34):
push up fears so much that people get.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
What proportion if people are paying ten bucks at the moment,
what proportion of the total fear is that, like, how
much is it being subsidized?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So that is we have what we call fearbox recovery
of around thirty percent, so the amount of and that
is very good internationally.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's maybe like a thirty five dollar trip and they're
paying ten bucks.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, so that's what we and you should do that
calculation for roads especially local roads, and you will find
that the amount that that actual drivers are paying, especially
on a local road, is way below what that costs.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, all right, hey Thomas, thanks for talking us, sir,
I appreciate It's Thomas Nash, heir of the Greater Wellington
Regional Council's Transport Committee. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news talks.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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