February 28, 2025 • 8 mins
A recent research article titled “happiness depletes me,” found that trying to be happy (which is defined as striving to experience as much positive emotion as possible and avoid negative emotions) leads to decreased feelings of happiness, and increased levels of loneliness and low energy.
The basic idea is that trying to deliberately change your thoughts and behaviour to be happy means you tend to overlook small naturally occurring moments of happiness. The effort leaves you drained and more likely to make poor decisions such as overspending or overeating, which in turn make you feel unhappy.
Not a new idea – brought to prominence in a book in 2007 by Russ Harris called “The Happiness Trap”
So if your life isn’t going to be focused on finding happiness what should it be focused on?
Happiness Trap suggests:
- Accepting that negative thoughts and emotions are natural and part of life, do don’t fight against them
- Enjoy positive emotions when they do occur, and pay attention to the small things in life
- Live life by trying to act in accordance with your values. One way of identifying core values for you is to ask yourself how you would like other people to describe you in 3 words. The 3 words you choose probably reflect your values. Use these to guide how you live your life. Happiness will occur at times as a pleasant side-effect but life overall will be more worth living.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks at be.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Clinical psychologist Google Sutherland is here with us this morning,
and he has a rather interesting subject. He wants us
to stop trying to be happy, or at least he's
read some research into stopping trying to be happy. Morning
doogle Curra Jack.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yes, it's not really what you expect when you took
to a psychologist that they're going to tell you to
stop trying to be happy, but yeah, it's an interesting
the article that I was reading. Often you might not
be surprised, you know, often psychology research articles don't have
the sexiest titles. Yes, but this one was called Happiness
(00:49):
Depletes Me, and it was like, that's and what they
found was that if you are trying to be happy,
or you spend lots of time trying to be happy,
and that's trying to look for as much positive emotion
as possible and at the same time avoid negative emoent
like sadness and that sort of thing, it actually leads
to people feeling less happy, having less energy, and feeling
(01:15):
lonely as well. So the more you try, the worse
it becomes.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, that's interesting. So if you deliberately alter your kind
of your behavior and your thoughts and stuff. Then it
ultimately you ultimately end up kind of focusing more on
the negative things, or at the very least, it leaves
you kind of exhausted and depleted. And yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, exactly. Well two things. One is that you know,
having all this deliberate you've only got you know, a
certain amount of energy, right, and so if you're expending
that on trying to do something, changing your behavior, changing
your thoughts, then you can get tired and exhausted, and
then you end up because you know, you know what
it's like when you're a bit tired and you make
(01:58):
a stupid decision and you end up overspending or overeating
or something like that, and then you regret that and
then and you.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Get all yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I think The other thing too, I think is that
when people are you know, the look, always looking for
the next thing. Okay, what are we going to do today?
What's going to do today that's going to make me happy,
people tend to overlook the very small moments of joy
that occur naturally, and and that might be you know,
this morning, I went out and it's been it's been
(02:29):
a beautiful week here in Wellington weatherwise, and I just
still down our deck, on our deck, and it was
just really delightful to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Do those two minutes this year? Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, we'll take those because that's the better we're going
to get. But it was just those small moments. And
if I had been in a hurry and focused on Okay,
what am I going to do that? What am I
going to do that? It's going to feel great, then
then you tend to miss those small moments of joy
that just spontaneously occur and actually and do give you
that positive feeling.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And this isn't necessarily new thinking, right because there was
that I can't remember it was a few years ago
now that the happiness trap.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, that's right, So it's not new at all. You
know that this idea has been around for about twenty
twenty five years. As you say, The happiness Trap was
by an Australian guy, Ras Harris, and it's based on
a type of therapy called acceptance and Commitment therapy or
ACT not not the political party that which is always
a little bit confusing. If you're talking to clients, they
(03:31):
think you're you're trying to convert them to a particular
political cause and you have to explain it's not that,
but yeah, it's around that. So his book was called
The Happiness Trap, and it was really it's a great
I thoroughly recommend it for people if they're into it.
But it really sets out kind of three things that
you should do instead of looking for positive emotions. So
(03:52):
instead of searching for happiness all the time.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, right, okay, So what are the tips that they
share through The Happiness Trap, Like, you just sort of
got to accept that you do have some down moments, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
That's the first one. It's not being it's it's it's
it's being okay with not being okay sometimes. And it
doesn't mean that you go searching for pain or or
sadness or negative emotions. And it doesn't mean that you
revel on them. But it just is the acceptance that
they these occur naturally to all of us in our life.
(04:25):
It's part of life. It's okay to have them, it's
normal to have them. So that's the first thing I
think is accepting them and don't try not to fight
against them, if that makes sense, And then going the
second point would be you know, going back to our
just you know, picking up from what we talked about
a moment ago about small moments of joy, enjoy those
(04:48):
positive moments when they do occur. So so just be
alert and be aware for when those very small moments
of joy occur. You know, and I'm thinking about you
with a new baby and sleepless nights, and and and
and and it's easy to kind of overlook that there
will be times as your boy rows up. You know
that that you know there will be those little moments
(05:09):
of a smile or a giggle or or whatever. And
if you're too focused on other things, you can miss
those little small moments that really bring us sort of
joy and happiness just just naturally occurring.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think this is a bit of a danger for
me generally, because I'm a real time optimizer and I'm
very productivity focused, and kind of every conscious and waking
moment I'm always like, what kind of do now to,
you know, get more done and get more things of
the day, and you end up just kind of rushing
through the day and not being present. I suppose that's
what it is. I just a bit just trying to
be another word for being.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Try trying to be Yeah, one hundred percent. I think
it's it's it's you know, it's it's focused more on
being rather than doing. Yeah, I think too. And look
in the third tip i'd say as and this is
what the happiness track talks about too, is around live life,
because my people might say, well, if I'm not trying
to be happy all the time, how should I live
(06:00):
my life? And and and Russ Harris talks about living
according to your value. And one way to sort of
figure out what your values are, because we will probably
have them, but we may not always know what they are,
is to ask yourself, what are three words that I
would like other people to use to describe me? And
(06:22):
those three words are probably reflective of your value. So
if you know, you say I'd love people to think
I'm dependable or consider it or kind or hard working,
whatever it is, those are probably your values. And start
using those as almost like a compass to guide you
and how you speak, how you act in the world.
(06:45):
And that leads to a fulfilling life rather than necessarily
one that's packed full to the brim of happiness. It's
a fulfilling life with moments of joy, moments of sadness,
but probably ultimately better for us in the longer term.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, And the funny thing is, I feel like a
fulfilling life is actually a better way to think of
a happy life. Like, Yeah, sometimes I wonder if you
it's just breaking it down into time frames. That is
the kind of good way to distinguish between these things.
If you, if you are you know, in your in
the twilight of your of your time on this mortal earth,
and you look back over your life and you're able
(07:20):
to have that kind of fulfilled feeling that that is
happy in my Yeah, whereas you just focusing on the
was have I been happy all day? Am I happy
right now?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Then you never get You're always going to be chasing
something that doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, It's it's a deeper level, isn't. I'd perhaps call
it joy maybe, or satisfaction, or even that sort of
sense of peace or or or equanimity, just that sense
of oh, i'm i'm i'm, I'm I'm here, i am
and I'm enjoying life and my life as feels complete
(07:53):
And that can be a bit of a subtle change
for people. But but, but, but I think a really
good one if you're able to switch.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
That up nice.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
We'll put that by your byline, Google. So the less
is stop trying to be happy, clinical psychologists, Turgles, Sutherlands,
stop trying to be heavy, be fulfilled instead, be satisfied.
Thank you so much, Google, Have a great weekend and
we'll catch again very soon. Google Sutherland from Umbrella well
being there.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live
to News Talks at B from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks at be.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Clinical psychologist Google Sutherland is here with us this morning,
and he has a rather interesting subject. He wants us
to stop trying to be happy, or at least he's
read some research into stopping trying to be happy. Morning
doogle Curra Jack.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yes, it's not really what you expect when you took
to a psychologist that they're going to tell you to
stop trying to be happy, but yeah, it's an interesting
the article that I was reading. Often you might not
be surprised, you know, often psychology research articles don't have
the sexiest titles. Yes, but this one was called Happiness
(00:49):
Depletes Me, and it was like, that's and what they
found was that if you are trying to be happy,
or you spend lots of time trying to be happy,
and that's trying to look for as much positive emotion
as possible and at the same time avoid negative emoent
like sadness and that sort of thing, it actually leads
to people feeling less happy, having less energy, and feeling
(01:15):
lonely as well. So the more you try, the worse
it becomes.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, that's interesting. So if you deliberately alter your kind
of your behavior and your thoughts and stuff. Then it
ultimately you ultimately end up kind of focusing more on
the negative things, or at the very least, it leaves
you kind of exhausted and depleted. And yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, exactly. Well two things. One is that you know,
having all this deliberate you've only got you know, a
certain amount of energy, right, and so if you're expending
that on trying to do something, changing your behavior, changing
your thoughts, then you can get tired and exhausted, and
then you end up because you know, you know what
it's like when you're a bit tired and you make
(01:58):
a stupid decision and you end up overspending or overeating
or something like that, and then you regret that and
then and you.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Get all yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I think The other thing too, I think is that
when people are you know, the look, always looking for
the next thing. Okay, what are we going to do today?
What's going to do today that's going to make me happy,
people tend to overlook the very small moments of joy
that occur naturally, and and that might be you know,
this morning, I went out and it's been it's been
(02:29):
a beautiful week here in Wellington weatherwise, and I just
still down our deck, on our deck, and it was
just really delightful to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Do those two minutes this year? Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, we'll take those because that's the better we're going
to get. But it was just those small moments. And
if I had been in a hurry and focused on Okay,
what am I going to do that? What am I
going to do that? It's going to feel great, then
then you tend to miss those small moments of joy
that just spontaneously occur and actually and do give you
that positive feeling.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And this isn't necessarily new thinking, right because there was
that I can't remember it was a few years ago
now that the happiness trap.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, that's right, So it's not new at all. You
know that this idea has been around for about twenty
twenty five years. As you say, The happiness Trap was
by an Australian guy, Ras Harris, and it's based on
a type of therapy called acceptance and Commitment therapy or
ACT not not the political party that which is always
a little bit confusing. If you're talking to clients, they
(03:31):
think you're you're trying to convert them to a particular
political cause and you have to explain it's not that,
but yeah, it's around that. So his book was called
The Happiness Trap, and it was really it's a great
I thoroughly recommend it for people if they're into it.
But it really sets out kind of three things that
you should do instead of looking for positive emotions. So
(03:52):
instead of searching for happiness all the time.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, right, okay, So what are the tips that they
share through The Happiness Trap, Like, you just sort of
got to accept that you do have some down moments, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
That's the first one. It's not being it's it's it's
it's being okay with not being okay sometimes. And it
doesn't mean that you go searching for pain or or
sadness or negative emotions. And it doesn't mean that you
revel on them. But it just is the acceptance that
they these occur naturally to all of us in our life.
(04:25):
It's part of life. It's okay to have them, it's
normal to have them. So that's the first thing I
think is accepting them and don't try not to fight
against them, if that makes sense, And then going the
second point would be you know, going back to our
just you know, picking up from what we talked about
a moment ago about small moments of joy, enjoy those
(04:48):
positive moments when they do occur. So so just be
alert and be aware for when those very small moments
of joy occur. You know, and I'm thinking about you
with a new baby and sleepless nights, and and and
and and it's easy to kind of overlook that there
will be times as your boy rows up. You know
that that you know there will be those little moments
(05:09):
of a smile or a giggle or or whatever. And
if you're too focused on other things, you can miss
those little small moments that really bring us sort of
joy and happiness just just naturally occurring.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think this is a bit of a danger for
me generally, because I'm a real time optimizer and I'm
very productivity focused, and kind of every conscious and waking
moment I'm always like, what kind of do now to,
you know, get more done and get more things of
the day, and you end up just kind of rushing
through the day and not being present. I suppose that's
what it is. I just a bit just trying to
be another word for being.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Try trying to be Yeah, one hundred percent. I think
it's it's it's you know, it's it's focused more on
being rather than doing. Yeah, I think too. And look
in the third tip i'd say as and this is
what the happiness track talks about too, is around live life,
because my people might say, well, if I'm not trying
to be happy all the time, how should I live
(06:00):
my life? And and and Russ Harris talks about living
according to your value. And one way to sort of
figure out what your values are, because we will probably
have them, but we may not always know what they are,
is to ask yourself, what are three words that I
would like other people to use to describe me? And
(06:22):
those three words are probably reflective of your value. So
if you know, you say I'd love people to think
I'm dependable or consider it or kind or hard working,
whatever it is, those are probably your values. And start
using those as almost like a compass to guide you
and how you speak, how you act in the world.
(06:45):
And that leads to a fulfilling life rather than necessarily
one that's packed full to the brim of happiness. It's
a fulfilling life with moments of joy, moments of sadness,
but probably ultimately better for us in the longer term.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, And the funny thing is, I feel like a
fulfilling life is actually a better way to think of
a happy life. Like, Yeah, sometimes I wonder if you
it's just breaking it down into time frames. That is
the kind of good way to distinguish between these things.
If you, if you are you know, in your in
the twilight of your of your time on this mortal earth,
and you look back over your life and you're able
(07:20):
to have that kind of fulfilled feeling that that is
happy in my Yeah, whereas you just focusing on the
was have I been happy all day? Am I happy
right now?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Then you never get You're always going to be chasing
something that doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, It's it's a deeper level, isn't. I'd perhaps call
it joy maybe, or satisfaction, or even that sort of
sense of peace or or or equanimity, just that sense
of oh, i'm i'm i'm, I'm I'm here, i am
and I'm enjoying life and my life as feels complete
(07:53):
And that can be a bit of a subtle change
for people. But but, but, but I think a really
good one if you're able to switch.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
That up nice.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
We'll put that by your byline, Google. So the less
is stop trying to be happy, clinical psychologists, Turgles, Sutherlands,
stop trying to be heavy, be fulfilled instead, be satisfied.
Thank you so much, Google, Have a great weekend and
we'll catch again very soon. Google Sutherland from Umbrella well
being there.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live
to News Talks at B from nine am Saturday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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