November 7, 2025 • 12 mins
An extremely prolific author, Michael Connelly has published more than 40 books.
He’s created in-depth universes surrounding well-known characters like Mickey Haller in the Lincoln Lawyer and Harry Bosch, who’s appeared in 24 of Connelly’s novels.
His universes continue to grow with a new addition to the Lincoln Lawyer series, ‘The Proving Ground’, which sees Haller team up with a journalist to take on big tech, AI, and uncover a whistleblower in hiding, all with billions on the line.
Connelly professes to be a fan of technological innovation, exploring things like the internet, DNA analytics, and data storage in previous novels.
“AI was kinda like, primed for me.”
“For every great discovery and invention, and move forward with technology, there’s always somebody out there who is looking to turn it against is,” Connelly told Jack Tame.
“And there were a couple of cases that really caught my eye, that made me, you know, say, yeah I know AI is gonna change the world for the better, but are we moving too fast?”
Every week there’s some new development with AI, whether it's a new problem, a new use, or a new integration into an already existing platform.
“The Proving Ground is an exploration of it,” he says.
“I don’t wanna say it’s didactic, or tells anyone how to think, but it does, you know, maybe raise a flag and say, ‘take a look at this.’”
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks at.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
B author Michael Conley one of the world's most beloved
thriller authors. He's created in depth universes around well known
characters like Mickey Haller and the Lincoln Lawyer and Harry Bosh,
and his narrative tellings continue to expand. His new book,
The Proving Ground sees how a team up with a
journalist to take on big tech AI and uncover a
(00:33):
whistleblower and hiding all with billions of dollars at stake.
Michael Conley is with us this morning. Kelder, Welcome to
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It is a great pleasure to be speaking with you,
especially about The Proving Ground. It really feels like you
have taken on what is set to be the issue
of the time. So tell us how did you get
interested in artificial intelligence?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Well, I think I have a history of being interested
in technological advances, and for every great discovery and invention
and move forward with technology, there's always somebody out there
who is looking to turn it against us, you know,
(01:19):
So I usually use my reporter Jack McVoy that character
to explore this stuff. And I've done the Internet and
DNA analytics and data storage data DA and you know,
so AI was like kind of prime for me, I think.
And there was a couple of cases that really caught
my eye that made me, you know, say, yeah, I
(01:42):
know AI is going to change the world for the better,
but are we moving too fast or is there is
there you know, should we really understand what's going on
out there? And these involved young people being encouraged, I
guess is the right word, uh, to do things that
were really bad, like harm themselves or harm others.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
And they they've broken the.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
News couple of years ago, and so it started there
and then in the process of writing this book, things
like this we're breaking in the news almost every week,
and so it's kind of become come to a head
at the moment. And so you know, the proving Ground
is an exploration of it. You know, I don't want
to say it's didactic didactic or tells anyone how to think,
(02:29):
but it does, you know, maybe raise a flag and
say take a look at this.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, I think it yeah, I think it explores some
of the inherent ethical complexity that comes with the technology. Right,
And so how do you how do you think about
that ethical complexity with some of the other technological subjects
that you focused on in the past, Because, like you say,
this is not the first time you've you've had your
(02:54):
eye keenly focused on the technology of the moment.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I mean, as I said before, I usually use this
journalist character that I've created, but this time where I
found out about these incidences were usually through the filing
of lawsuits, and so it struck me as something that
should be in Mickey Haller's court. And of course I
bring Jack McAvoy into it as a lesser character, because
(03:22):
that's what I've been doing with him in the past.
But yeah, it just seemed like the construct of a
courtroom where both sides have to say you know, and
you can hopefully build some tension and surprises and things
like that. It just seemed perfect for that stage, that
(03:43):
square room. And it added to a couple of years ago,
the last time I wrote about Mickey Haller was in
a book called Resurrection Walk, and it ended with him
saying I have to find a pivot, I have to
move in another direction, and so that it played into that,
and so the case in the proving ground is not
(04:04):
a criminal case. He's not defending any buddy, he's on
the offensive. He's called himself a public interest lawyer now.
And so he finds a case and he files it
and it's against a big tech company. So you know,
it just all worked out perfectly. Not only was this
what's going on in our world the right time, but
(04:27):
it was also the right time in my fictional world
with this character.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Or with this characters. And this is what you were
just alluded to. So you have Mickey Hola and you
have Jack McAvoy, who are usually in their own worlds,
and I appreciate that it's to some extent the same
kind of fictional world. But but taught me through the
decision process to get characters who have been isolated in
series in the past and then and then bring them
(04:53):
together like this. Is that Is there ever any any
tension there is?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Is that ever?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
You know a kind of you know, is that a
difficult thing for you to do?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
You mean, like do they take Jack aside and say, hey,
look and I.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Can yeah, yeah, yeah, you're gonna be You're gonna be
rolling to Mickey's batman this time around.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, not really, I mean I've been doing it as
you said, you know, for other characters, and I just thought,
you know, Mickey is kind of in the new proving ground,
if you will, He's uh uh, you know, he used
to knowing the how to cut corners and how things
work in a criminal court, but this is new for him,
(05:37):
and I thought he could have he should have, you know,
some major backup. And who else but Jack McAvoy, would
you know? I think it was very believable that Jack
shows up and says, I want to write about this case,
but I think I can help you as well. Yeah,
and it goes from there and Jack does do some
(05:57):
good work and gets a major get in this case.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So as part of this writing process, you know your
community experienced those extreme fires. How did you personally feel
affected by seeing the scale of the devastation.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
I you know, if you live here and love the place,
it affected you. I mean, but it is a vast place,
so you know, I had some experiences with it. I was,
what do you call it, evacuated from this house where
I'm talking to you from. I had another house that
burned to the ground, you know, so it's hard not
to know someone who's affected. I mean, you know, I'm
(06:38):
involved in a couple of TV shows and literally dozens
of the people and the crews and in the cash
lost their homes, lost everything. I feel I was luckier
than others. And then some people didn't affect at all
in terms of their home.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And so forth.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
But if you lived here, it affected you because you know,
you knew it was a.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Deep wound to this community.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
And like I said, I don't think there's any body
who doesn't know somebody who wasn't directly affected.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I mean almost ten thousand homes were gone, so.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, yeah, so it's had a deep effect. And that,
you know, in terms of me being a writer, and
a writer who wrongly or rightly is kind of expected
to be a voice of la I had to back up,
start over, and and and put it in the into
the story, but hopefully not in an exploitive way, but
(07:35):
in a way that would kind of show basically, I
try to use one person as a metaphor for the city,
and what she goes through is what the city's going through.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
How has it changed your perspective seeing you know, such
a developed city rendered so vulnerable to mother nature like that.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I mean, I think in some ways we've always known that.
I mean, because we live in you know where earthquakes
could shake the whole place to the ground at any time,
so we know we're vulnerable. And it's a balance of
the beauty and and and freedom you feel here and
but knowing you know, around the corner or at any minutes,
(08:18):
things can change. I mean, I don't know, I should
try to show I mean like this is a beautiful place.
I am still lucky I get to live here, and
that's my window.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Uh, and and there's always been because of past things
like major earthquakes, and we've had fires before, even riots,
there's been a built in resilience that you feel about
this place. And so even though this was quite devastating,
you know, I wrote an essay within a couple of
weeks saying, like, I know we'll be back. We built,
(08:51):
build back. That's what we do in LA. And you
know that's a community thing that you know, it's not
just La. If this happened to any place, you know,
hurricanes in Florida, which I have experienced with, you know,
it's the it's the human this of it that that
you know, humans have some kind of ability to.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Shake it off, rebuild and move on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So Michael, you're just showing me the view out of
your window through your zoom link right now. It looks incredible. Yeah,
like you say, a beautiful part of the world. You're
listening to Jack Tame. I'm speaking with author Michael Conley
about the Proving Ground, his latest book. Michael, you said
a few minutes ago that you think, on balance, AI
(09:35):
has some amazing present, some amazing opportunities to the world
that it's net positive. But how do you feel about
the state of AI regulation versus the technology as that
stands and the power that is concentrated within a few
big tech barons in their companies.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean that's the key, and that's usually where
I come in.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
You know, like I was writing about the DNA analytics
before the government had any rate relation on it, and
it was like, you know, it was the wild West. Well,
the AI is now the wild West. You know, there's
no government oversight. So it's become this very competitive business
with billions of dollars at stake. And yes, they're the
(10:23):
advancements and improvements are especially in the fields of medicine
and so forth, are just just phenomenal. And overall this
is going to improve the world. I believe that. But
I just think, as Mickey Holler says in this you
need more guardrails, you need more overwatch to make sure
(10:43):
some company trying to make a billion dollars off of
chatbot is not giving a chatbot coded by thirty year
old men to thirteen year old girls or boys. You know,
it's there's a lot of common sense that hasn't come
into play yet. And and you know, if any if
there's any flag raised by this book, and I even
(11:07):
hesitate to say that because it's a thriller I am
in but it does explore, you know, what's going on
in society, but hopefully aout me being preaching about it.
I mean maybe Mickey preaches about it in his closing arguments,
but you know, I just think, come on, guys, think about.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
What you're doing and what you whose hands you're putting
stuff into.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, yeah, well said, Hey, thank you so much for
your time, Michael, We really appreciate it. Congratulations on the
proving ground. I hope, given your prolific nature, that you
do allow yourself to put down the pen every now
and then and have a little bit of a break.
But yeah, it really is remarkable, So we really appreciate
your time.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Oh thanks for having me. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That is Michael Connolly. The Proving Ground, the eighth book
in Michael's Lincoln Lawyer series, is out now and all
the details will be on the News Talks. He'd be
website for.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live to
News Talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast
from News Talks at.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
B author Michael Conley one of the world's most beloved
thriller authors. He's created in depth universes around well known
characters like Mickey Haller and the Lincoln Lawyer and Harry Bosh,
and his narrative tellings continue to expand. His new book,
The Proving Ground sees how a team up with a
journalist to take on big tech AI and uncover a
(00:33):
whistleblower and hiding all with billions of dollars at stake.
Michael Conley is with us this morning. Kelder, Welcome to
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It is a great pleasure to be speaking with you,
especially about The Proving Ground. It really feels like you
have taken on what is set to be the issue
of the time. So tell us how did you get
interested in artificial intelligence?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Well, I think I have a history of being interested
in technological advances, and for every great discovery and invention
and move forward with technology, there's always somebody out there
who is looking to turn it against us, you know,
(01:19):
So I usually use my reporter Jack McVoy that character
to explore this stuff. And I've done the Internet and
DNA analytics and data storage data DA and you know,
so AI was like kind of prime for me, I think.
And there was a couple of cases that really caught
my eye that made me, you know, say, yeah, I
(01:42):
know AI is going to change the world for the better,
but are we moving too fast or is there is
there you know, should we really understand what's going on
out there? And these involved young people being encouraged, I
guess is the right word, uh, to do things that
were really bad, like harm themselves or harm others.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
And they they've broken the.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
News couple of years ago, and so it started there
and then in the process of writing this book, things
like this we're breaking in the news almost every week,
and so it's kind of become come to a head
at the moment. And so you know, the proving Ground
is an exploration of it. You know, I don't want
to say it's didactic didactic or tells anyone how to think,
(02:29):
but it does, you know, maybe raise a flag and
say take a look at this.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, I think it yeah, I think it explores some
of the inherent ethical complexity that comes with the technology. Right,
And so how do you how do you think about
that ethical complexity with some of the other technological subjects
that you focused on in the past, Because, like you say,
this is not the first time you've you've had your
(02:54):
eye keenly focused on the technology of the moment.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I mean, as I said before, I usually use this
journalist character that I've created, but this time where I
found out about these incidences were usually through the filing
of lawsuits, and so it struck me as something that
should be in Mickey Haller's court. And of course I
bring Jack McAvoy into it as a lesser character, because
(03:22):
that's what I've been doing with him in the past.
But yeah, it just seemed like the construct of a
courtroom where both sides have to say you know, and
you can hopefully build some tension and surprises and things
like that. It just seemed perfect for that stage, that
(03:43):
square room. And it added to a couple of years ago,
the last time I wrote about Mickey Haller was in
a book called Resurrection Walk, and it ended with him
saying I have to find a pivot, I have to
move in another direction, and so that it played into that,
and so the case in the proving ground is not
(04:04):
a criminal case. He's not defending any buddy, he's on
the offensive. He's called himself a public interest lawyer now.
And so he finds a case and he files it
and it's against a big tech company. So you know,
it just all worked out perfectly. Not only was this
what's going on in our world the right time, but
(04:27):
it was also the right time in my fictional world
with this character.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Or with this characters. And this is what you were
just alluded to. So you have Mickey Hola and you
have Jack McAvoy, who are usually in their own worlds,
and I appreciate that it's to some extent the same
kind of fictional world. But but taught me through the
decision process to get characters who have been isolated in
series in the past and then and then bring them
(04:53):
together like this. Is that Is there ever any any
tension there is?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Is that ever?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
You know a kind of you know, is that a
difficult thing for you to do?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
You mean, like do they take Jack aside and say, hey,
look and I.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Can yeah, yeah, yeah, you're gonna be You're gonna be
rolling to Mickey's batman this time around.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah, not really, I mean I've been doing it as
you said, you know, for other characters, and I just thought,
you know, Mickey is kind of in the new proving ground,
if you will, He's uh uh, you know, he used
to knowing the how to cut corners and how things
work in a criminal court, but this is new for him,
(05:37):
and I thought he could have he should have, you know,
some major backup. And who else but Jack McAvoy, would
you know? I think it was very believable that Jack
shows up and says, I want to write about this case,
but I think I can help you as well. Yeah,
and it goes from there and Jack does do some
(05:57):
good work and gets a major get in this case.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So as part of this writing process, you know your
community experienced those extreme fires. How did you personally feel
affected by seeing the scale of the devastation.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
I you know, if you live here and love the place,
it affected you. I mean, but it is a vast place,
so you know, I had some experiences with it. I was,
what do you call it, evacuated from this house where
I'm talking to you from. I had another house that
burned to the ground, you know, so it's hard not
to know someone who's affected. I mean, you know, I'm
(06:38):
involved in a couple of TV shows and literally dozens
of the people and the crews and in the cash
lost their homes, lost everything. I feel I was luckier
than others. And then some people didn't affect at all
in terms of their home.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And so forth.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
But if you lived here, it affected you because you know,
you knew it was a.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Deep wound to this community.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
And like I said, I don't think there's any body
who doesn't know somebody who wasn't directly affected.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I mean almost ten thousand homes were gone, so.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, yeah, so it's had a deep effect. And that,
you know, in terms of me being a writer, and
a writer who wrongly or rightly is kind of expected
to be a voice of la I had to back up,
start over, and and and put it in the into
the story, but hopefully not in an exploitive way, but
(07:35):
in a way that would kind of show basically, I
try to use one person as a metaphor for the city,
and what she goes through is what the city's going through.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
How has it changed your perspective seeing you know, such
a developed city rendered so vulnerable to mother nature like that.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I mean, I think in some ways we've always known that.
I mean, because we live in you know where earthquakes
could shake the whole place to the ground at any time,
so we know we're vulnerable. And it's a balance of
the beauty and and and freedom you feel here and
but knowing you know, around the corner or at any minutes,
(08:18):
things can change. I mean, I don't know, I should
try to show I mean like this is a beautiful place.
I am still lucky I get to live here, and
that's my window.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Uh, and and there's always been because of past things
like major earthquakes, and we've had fires before, even riots,
there's been a built in resilience that you feel about
this place. And so even though this was quite devastating,
you know, I wrote an essay within a couple of
weeks saying, like, I know we'll be back. We built,
(08:51):
build back. That's what we do in LA. And you
know that's a community thing that you know, it's not
just La. If this happened to any place, you know,
hurricanes in Florida, which I have experienced with, you know,
it's the it's the human this of it that that
you know, humans have some kind of ability to.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Shake it off, rebuild and move on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So Michael, you're just showing me the view out of
your window through your zoom link right now. It looks incredible. Yeah,
like you say, a beautiful part of the world. You're
listening to Jack Tame. I'm speaking with author Michael Conley
about the Proving Ground, his latest book. Michael, you said
a few minutes ago that you think, on balance, AI
(09:35):
has some amazing present, some amazing opportunities to the world
that it's net positive. But how do you feel about
the state of AI regulation versus the technology as that
stands and the power that is concentrated within a few
big tech barons in their companies.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean that's the key, and that's usually where
I come in.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
You know, like I was writing about the DNA analytics
before the government had any rate relation on it, and
it was like, you know, it was the wild West. Well,
the AI is now the wild West. You know, there's
no government oversight. So it's become this very competitive business
with billions of dollars at stake. And yes, they're the
(10:23):
advancements and improvements are especially in the fields of medicine
and so forth, are just just phenomenal. And overall this
is going to improve the world. I believe that. But
I just think, as Mickey Holler says in this you
need more guardrails, you need more overwatch to make sure
(10:43):
some company trying to make a billion dollars off of
chatbot is not giving a chatbot coded by thirty year
old men to thirteen year old girls or boys. You know,
it's there's a lot of common sense that hasn't come
into play yet. And and you know, if any if
there's any flag raised by this book, and I even
(11:07):
hesitate to say that because it's a thriller I am
in but it does explore, you know, what's going on
in society, but hopefully aout me being preaching about it.
I mean maybe Mickey preaches about it in his closing arguments,
but you know, I just think, come on, guys, think about.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
What you're doing and what you whose hands you're putting
stuff into.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, yeah, well said, Hey, thank you so much for
your time, Michael, We really appreciate it. Congratulations on the
proving ground. I hope, given your prolific nature, that you
do allow yourself to put down the pen every now
and then and have a little bit of a break.
But yeah, it really is remarkable, So we really appreciate
your time.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Oh thanks for having me. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That is Michael Connolly. The Proving Ground, the eighth book
in Michael's Lincoln Lawyer series, is out now and all
the details will be on the News Talks. He'd be
website for.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live to
News Talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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