Andrew Hubbard: Citizen's Advice Bureau CEO on the Ministry of Social Development incorrectly processing payments

The Citizen's Advice Bureau says it isn't a surprise that MSD incorrectly processed 1-in-4 benefit entitlements.  

The Ministry of Social Development's revealed its accuracy has slipped over the past few years, largely due to system and resource challenges.  

CAB Deputy Chief Executive Andrew Hubbard says the stat stacks up with inconsistencies it's hearing from clients.  

He told Mike Hosking it creates stress for those who have been overpaid and are facing debt they shouldn't be held responsible for.  

Hubbard says mostly it's to do with a change in circumstance, like they've been a week late or it's taken MSD time to catch up with the change they've told them about. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
One of the more eye opening stats that's come out
of the scrutiny week at Parliament this week is the
factor quarter beneficiaries been paid incorrectly. Only seventy seven point
six percent are on the money. The target is ninety
five percent, So no Christmas party for them this year.
Criminal Advice Bureau Criminal Advice Citizens' Advice Bureau Deputy CEO
Andrew Hubbard is with us. Andrew, very good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
To you, Cira, Mike, how are you very well?

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Imagine if you were called the Criminal Advice Bureau different anyway, Listen,
what's gone wrong here? Has this been I take it
this doesn't happened yesterday. This is an ongoing thing.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Right, yes, although one of the I think most disappointed
things has actually been got worse over the last several years.
So instead of heading towards the ninety five percent, heading
away from it, which is a serious problem.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Is this nurse's robo pay. All the complexities we've seen
around pay and this is just another example of it.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I mean, that's definitely part of the factor. I think
if we look at you know, there's thirty thousand more
people on income support in the last year and no
increase in the start to deal with that. And so
you know what we're seeing is you know, really struggling
to be to talk to a real person to address
the problem if you do to come across one in
your payment.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Is it fair to suggest that, as I understand the
beneficiary system, it's complex. It's not just you know, you
just get a thing, you can apply for all sorts
of different things available to you, and it's that complexity
that will be the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, that's definitely a huge component of the problem. I
was thinking of an example of a client who we
dealt with very recently, who had applied, was struggling financially,
had applied to some extress supplementary benefit which she got
given to her, and then four days later she gets
a different ly there from Work and Income saying they've
overpaid her on some other element of a benefit. And
now that is that has a one and a half

(01:50):
thousand dollars debt to work an income they're going to
take away from the benefit they disclosed her. And so
we see lots of situations like that, And.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Here's the problem that causes stress, doesn't it in difficult times?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's thing you need, yeah, exactly, And so you know,
we're really concerned. In the last five years or so,
debt to MSD's almost doubled, and a lot of that
is to do with overpayments that you know, quite frankly
shouldn't be you know, the people who've been over at
Paige shouldn't be held responsible for that. Mostly it's to
do with a change of circumstances. Maybe they've been a

(02:20):
week late, or it's taken MSD time to catch up
with the change that they've told them about, and yet
they are then facing a debt which comes out of there.
You know, people are already struggling on the amount they
get from working income and then they get a debt
taken off there, and it's just it's counterproductive.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Do you have any sense of whether anybody's on top
of this and going, actually, seventy seven is not good
enough and we are correcting it and it will be
sorted by X.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I mean, I think it will be fair to say
that this stat wasn't surprise for us from our in
directions with clients over the last year. You know, we've
been seeing what we really are concerned aout is the
level of inconsistency. Depending on who you talk to and
so you know, we are concerned that you know, there's
no apparent change for the better in the situation.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh all right, Well, I've got the Prime Minister on
the program tomorrow, so we'll we'll put that to him
and see what he's up to. Andrew Hubbard, who's the Citizens'
Advice Bureau Deputy Chief Executive.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
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