Andrew Little: Former Labour leader says the party missed out on opportunities in promising not to sign up to AUKUS

A belief Labour missed out on opportunities when announcing its position on AUKUS.

The party has promised not to sign up to the international security pact – a partnership between Australia, Britain, and the United States.

Former Labour leader Andrew Little told Mike Hosking he wants more of an indication on how those relationships would be managed in the future.

“So if we’re not signing up to that, we still have to have a relationship with them – or we’re going to – and still need new defence kit.”

But Little is confident relationships will remain strong, believing the nuclear part will likely collapse.

He says the other part was joining with our traditional partners on developing technology of use to New Zealand, like remote maritime patrolling.

The current Government's exploring options for the non-nuclear aspect of the pact.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the Labour Party picked the very nice spot of
the Isaac Theater in Christich to have their annual gab fest.
Orcus has gone. The Dunedin Hospital has originally promised us
back in the tobacco tax break on heated products is canceled.
Bit of a sledge at the government as well. Look
back at our history. We excel when we bring people
together rather than drive them apart as this government seems

(00:21):
to want to do.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
The former Labour leader Andrew Little is with us. Very
good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good morning Mike.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
What do you make of it? What's the vibe?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah? I think I think, you know, for a party
in the first year in opposition after a pretty slammed
sort of result last year, they felt it together. Well
during the year it's been very disciplined. I know. If
they've acknowledged they got wrong, well, we got wrong. In government.
Things have to change, and I guess this was about
secking out what the change starts to look like.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
What's happened with Orcust given it started with you and
it's sort of been this mysterious pillar two thing and
we'll have a think in a chat and will work
something out. And then suddenly it's gone.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
What happened there, Well, good question, and I think I
mean the reality about it is the species that they
talked about not sewning up to a nuclear sort of
war things, Well, the reality is we were never signed
up to the nuclear propelled submarines part of it, and
of all the things in aucus, that's the one thing
that is likely to collapse because it's always needed the

(01:18):
approval of US Congress. It hasn't got that in the
last two and a half years, it's unlikely to get
it now for some time, so they'll probably go. The
other part of it was draining with our long standing
traditional partners UK, Australia and the US on developing new
defense technology for stuff that's sort of used to us,
like remote maritime patrolling, that sort of thing. Saying what

(01:41):
I'm going to sign up to it is kind of
one thing. I think the lost opportunity there in the
weekend was to say we understand that our natural security
and defense needs our changing because the situation is changing,
and this is what it looks like. Because the reality
is this current government having promised, for example, a defense
Capability Plan, which is the list of new investments back
in June then to September, we still don't have it,

(02:03):
So there's a bit of dinnering going on later. Could
have distinguished themselves in that respect exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
So what are we saying with the Pillar two thing
that we don't want to be closer to America and
we like China, or we're not saying that.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I don't know. I don't quite know what the post
position is that in ours that we're not signing up
for August August. I don't know what that means in practice,
because those three partners are partners who will get most
of our defense technology from that. Anyway, we'll always get
it from them, So we're not signing up to that.
We still have to have a relationship with what we're

(02:36):
going to and still need new defendicate. So I suppose
what I guess would have hoped for is a bit
of an indication about how we're going to manage those
relationships in the future.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Speaking of maritime surveillance, as an next Minister of Defense,
what do you make of the man and the revelation
that no one seems to know how to work an autopilot?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, it seems to be common in the Maritimes sectors
doubt of Teddy, But yeah, it's disappointing to see. I mean,
that was you know that was. It displays an important
role for our Navy and our relationship with South Pacific country.
It's really disappointing to see what happened. I think due
to Collins is right to express that disappointment. I guess

(03:16):
it's the next thing is to see who's going to
be held responsible for it with the next stage of
the court of inquiry.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Exactly good to talk to you appreciate it, Andrew Little,
former labor leader, former defense industry of course. Ten minutes
past seven. Yeah, the August thing's weird. I just don't
understand it. It seems to have come from nowhere. There
seems to be no logical explanation for it. We supposedly
didn't know anything about it. For more from the Mic
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(03:42):
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