Best of 2024: Christopher Luxon loses a bet on the Mike Hosking Breakfast

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has been forced to wear a Highlanders jersey this morning after the team beat the Crusaders on the weekend. 

Luxon —a die-hard Crusaders fan— had a bet with Newstalk ZB producer Sam Carran over the outcome of Saturday’s game. 

He was a good sport at the NZME offices this morning, laughing as he donned the jersey - but he told ZB’s Mike Hosking to expect a “shocking interview”. 

He said Carran was “the nicest man in the country” on the outside but inside was “Machiavellian”. 

Luxon said he had warned Carran he was a size XL but the producer had given him an XS jersey. 

Luxon last week maintained the Crusaders would turn around their losing form against the Highlanders, but it wasn’t to be. 

Waitangi Tribunal appeal 

Luxon told Hosking the Government is still considering whether to appeal the Court of Appeal’s judgement, which sided with the Waitangi Tribunal over its summons of Children’s Minister Karen Chhour. 

”We only got the judgement yesterday. So it’s a pretty big judgement and we need to work our way through it, and then take advice on whether we will appeal it and what we’ll do next. 

”The key issue was that “we don’t believe section 7AA is the right thing. We think the primacy of a child is important over above their cultural needs”. 

Some of the information the Waitangi Tribunal had asked for was from Cabinet discussions, which was “frustrating”, he said. 

The Government was trying to act in the spirit of “probity” - “making sure that the different branches of government are respectful of each other”. 

Fast Tracking 

Regarding Monday’s announcement about new the regional roading programme, Luxon said the Government was “very up for bringing in private capital” for public-private partnerships. 

The Fast-Track consenting process would be critical for many of the projects, and the planned National Infrastructure Agency would deal with financing and funding - working out whether private, domestic or international capital was most appropriate for each project. 

New Zealand also needed to become more attractive for foreign capital, Luxon said - adding that NZ was ranked second-least attractive in the OECD in that respect, just ahead of Mexico. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Prime Minister Christopher Uxen is with us now, and then
after eight o'clock Scott Morrison, who was also a Prime minister,
is with us to talk about Australia. So morning, good
to see you, good to be with you. Pressure's on
you because I mean he might out Prime Minister you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Actually I caught up with Scott a couple of weeks
ago when he was over for IDU, which is the
center right party grouping, So I'll sure have a lot
to say. He's got a book coming out.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Ye. He seems to be having a good life in
a good time and not too many regrets out the
other side.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, I've got a regret, which is wearing this Highlander ship.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Look to be honest, I mean it sort of feels terrible.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Man, it's a shocking interview, is it.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Don't don't let you look affect your performance. Do you
blame the jersey or do you, in some quiet way
blame yourself?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
No, I blame the jersey, and I blame your executive producer.
That guy Sam is the nicest man in the country,
which is actually probably a testament to you that you've
actually been able to attract someone so good that sticks
with you.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's right, but.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Honestly, like he set me up badly. He said about
you lose against Highlanders. Yeah, Machiavellian. That's the worst, nicest
guy on the nicest guy on the surface, just Underneas
soon as he held that jersey up this morning, I thought,
that's nothing but trouble. I said to him, mate, I'm
an excel and he's given me an excess. Right, So
he's just literally doubled down and made it even worse.
I feel like Beaver in the World Cup.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
You know, how are you going fitness wise?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Ah? Well, I mean it's a constant struggle just getting
time to exercise right, and my body loves it and
I love exercising, but you know, it's an hour and
a half out of a day. Sometimes it's quite difficult,
so keeping it integrated into my schedule is pretty challenging
at times.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Winston Peter's and the Solomon's yesterday there was a small
announcement I think on solar panels or solar work or
something like that. What are we trying to achieve? He
had given China's in there. They've signed the deal, they've
got a new Prime minister. He's pro Chinese. What are
we looking to achieve.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, look again, you know we want to make sure
across the Pacific we've got deep relationships there, long standing ones.
For us, it's obviously a very it's becoming more and
more contested, Yet strategically it's important for us as New
Zealand to be in they're building those relationships with those
island nations. A lot of the issues are around development
and support for those economies, a lot of it's around
climate change, and obviously about regional security and stability. So

(02:04):
it's important that we are circulating well and building those
relationships and make.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Do you really believe that or is it really just
about money?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
No? No, I really believe it. It's genuinely about making
sure that the Pacific Island nations activate through the Pacific
Island Forum, which is the key vehicle by which development
partners from around the world who want to work with
Pacific island nations should be channeling their investments through and
working with. But for us, it's about just deepening those
relationships across the Pacific, and you're seeing that across the
piece as we're having a big foreign affairs reset, which

(02:34):
is to say, look, our national interests are actually about
security and economic They are interdependent and joined up. You
can't have economic interests separate from security interests and vice versa.
And that's why you're seeing us put a real big
effort on Australia first and foremost the Pacific, Southeast Asia,
and between myself and between Winston and Judith Collins and
Defense and Todd McLay on trade, the four of us

(02:55):
in a foreign policy sense meet as a regular group
to make sure we're lifting the intensity and eurch We
want New Zealand to be relevant. We don't want to
become irrelevant in the end of Pacific.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
That half billion on defense last Friday, how much of
that is about in some way, shape or form aucas.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, no, it's just a start to recognize that we've
had a rundown defense force and we've got a wholesale
change of the heads of the defense forces across Army,
Navy and Air Force, and the Chief of Defense Force
will change as well. That's all literally happening in these
next few months. There'll be new leadership coming in. We
want to do a capability review, so we're really clear

(03:29):
that a lot of our responsibility is to power up
the Australian be a force multiplier for the Australian Defense forces,
make sure that we're into operable with them, and then
we'll make sure that we start to lift our defense spending.
So this is a start a lot of I think
there's one hundred and sixty three million of it going
into remuneration and the rest into some facilities and some infrastructure.
But you know, we need to make sure that we

(03:51):
have good defense spending that's consistent with our values. That
you can talk about stuff, you've got to follow through
and deploy.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
I spoke with Peters about a week or so ago
after that Aucut speech. He didn't seem to know what
was going on. It's not an insult, he just no knows.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Do you know anything that the challenges this is orcust
pillartoothing that's thrown around. It's been very undefined as to
what it actually is because the ORCST countries themselves actually
have to get aligned and have some definition around that.
Only in the last couple of weeks have they said
there's actually a pathway for our officials to start to
discuss with them more fully about what the potential of
it is. It's been loosely referred to as technologies that

(04:26):
could support that alliance. So again that'll be a long process.
We need to get our officials and they're talking with
we're no further ahead, no, no, but we've got an
intention to explore it. As we said, the officials will
continue that conversation and then we'll get move up.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
The Palestinian vote over the weekend at the UN. Was
that designed because you know full well it's going to
get sanctioned and tossed out at.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
The part Now that was really us just acknowledging Look,
you know, we really, we really do want to see
a two state solution emerge in the Middle East.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Even though it will never happen.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's inevitable that, you know, at some point you've got
to recognize Palace City in statehood. This wasn't that, this
was about enhanced membership of Palestine within the United Nations.
They can't select candiatures, they've got some limitations. It's not
full membership as such. But it's just an acknowledgment that
actually the world is pretty frustrated with where things are
at at the moment, and more military action doesn't solve
the problem. You've got to be able to get these

(05:14):
parties around a table. Hummas has to release hostages, we
have to get humanitarian aid, and then we need a
permanent cease far so we can get back to a
peace process that ultimately delivers a two parties, two state solution.
That has been one of the frustrations on this conflict.
Right If you think about the big conflicts of the
twentieth century, they've been resolved and this is one that
hasn't been resolved.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Karen Chaw was on just after seven o'clock this morning.
She said, you couldn't talk about the case, which indicates
the case is still wive despite the fact I didn't
think the case was live. Because it's the legislations there
and the tribunals over it means you must be looking
at appealings that.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, we only got the judgment yesterday, so it's a
pretty big judgment and we need to work our way
through it and then take advice on whether we will
appeal it and what we'll do next. Again, the substantive
issue here is we are very united and very strongly
aligned around the fact that we don't believe Section seven
AA is the right thing. We think the primacy of
a child is important over above their cultural needs.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Apart from a lawyer, several lawyers pocketing money from the taxpayer.
Has anything that's all been achieved by this whole exercise.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, it's frustrating because the way Tongui Tribunal has asked
us for a whole bunch of information, often briefs that actually,
you know, inputs to conversations that may happen in cabinets
or discussions. We've tried to be in the spirit of
what's called comity, making sure that the different branches of
government are respectful of each other. Provided that information, again,

(06:34):
we have a look at judgment and work out what
comes next.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, the regional roads announced yesterday, you've got to ppp them,
told them you have no money to do this. Correct.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, we're very up for bringing in private capital big time.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
We have to When does that actually happen?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Well, I mean again, this a process we're working through.
The first and foremost, get the resource and consenting straight
fast track consenting becomes very critical for a lot of
these projects. Secondly, we want to form a National Infrastructure Agency,
which actually be the financing and funding vehicle to work
out which private capital, domestic or international is relevant for
which type of project. And which model sort of financing works.
And then thirdly, we've got to get New Zealand to

(07:09):
be an attractive place that foreign capital wants to come to.
And at the moment, New Zealand I think ranks just
behind Mexico is the second worst place in the OECD
that foreign capital wants to come to. So, if you're
a foreign investor sitting in Singapore or the States or
somewhere else and you're looking at all the options of
where you can invest, New Zealand has seen a message
very clearly that we're not open for business and we
make it too hard. And so that's why I work
on the resource consenting, work on the financing, and work

(07:31):
on the international attraction of capital.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
The fast tracking. Have you been surprised at the pushback
or is the pushback come from the people you knew
would push back?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, pretty much where it came from. It's in a
select committee process. It's going through a full six month
select committee process, which means it's robust and people can
make We're not rushing the law being past. We want
a good quality law. But I make no apologies. We
are going to get stuff built in this country. We
have had so much talking and not enough doing. We've
had double the amount of time it now takes to

(07:58):
get a resource consent. It's costing one point three billion
a year, which is doubled. Our building costs are up
over forty one percent, the fifty percent higher than Australia.
We have to get stuff done and so a one
stop shop fast track consenting is going to be the
guts of what we're doing here. Will take some advice
through the Select Committee process of these things that can
be done to improve the legislation, but bottom liners make

(08:18):
no apologies. We have to get stuff done now.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
The ministerial statement last week on the gas that summing
Brown was turned into a debate and Victor came out
and said, we've been talking to government for four years.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Insane four years.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
How is it possible that we've landed in this position
whereby we haven't got enough windmills and we haven't got
enough gas either.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, well it's insane, right, it is absolutely insane. How
on earth do you rock up in Taranaki make an
explanation overnight that you're going to ban oil and gas
and there is no second third order consequences or implications
or plan as to how you will manage that transition.
And it's a lot of bumper stickers, and it's a
lot of headlines, but actually again classic sort of labor,
lots of post it notes, no plan to actually deliver

(08:57):
the program. And here we are today. We know we
all to be one hundred percent renewable, don't get me wrong,
but that last five percent is fricking expensive to get there.
And the second thing is we need to make sure
we've got gas when our natural resources and there isn't
some and where there isn't water and lakes and stuff,
and so we need gases a transitory energy source for
some time. If you can't get gas, you end up
going to coal, which is worse than gas, and gas

(09:19):
isn't as good as renewables. I get it, but that
is the pragmatic reality of it. So either you have
a proper plan to do a transition like that, or
you just do the bumper stickers. And that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Real quick cost of today is the strike forced raptor
or something that looks like it.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's a focus from the police to go after gangs
and make sure that we make their life difficult. And
that's entirely appropriate. They want all the rights of being
kiwis none of the responsibilities, and so we're going to
double down on gigs.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
As you stand up and leave the studio, suck it
in nice.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
This is the most horriblest interview I've ever had with
your Microsoft. For more from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen
live to news Talks.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on I on Radio.