There's acceptance banning social media for under 16s may be easier said than done.
National has put forward a members’ bill to prevent under 16 year olds having social media accounts, with large corporations being responsible for technically regulating age verification.
The author, Tukituki MP Catherine Wedd told Mike Hosking she knows anyone can use a fake age to set up a social media account, but if companies fail to manage it, they'll face significant penalties
She says it's not going to be perfect, but this is a direction from the government that we need to do more to protect kids from online harm.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What do we make of this member's bill looking a
bund social media for the under sixteens based on the
Australian model. Basically, it would make companies use age verification.
Now the National MP Catherine web is behind the bill
and as well as Catherine, very good.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Morning to you, Good morning Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We've got a little bit of theory versus reality going here.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
No, absolutely not. I strongly believe that parents should be
better supported in protecting their children from the online harms
of social media. I'm regularly hearing from parents and principles
who are worried about the negative impacts of social media,
whether it's cyber bullying, exploitation, or inappropriate content, concerns about
anxiety and mental well being and mental health. And this
(00:40):
bill mirror is the approach that's been taken in Australia.
It's going to put the onus on social media companies
to ensure that you have to be over the age
of sixteen before they can access social media.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, you don't have to be. All you have to
be is the person who clicks the button that says
you are, which is two completely different things, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, I think at the moment social media companies aren't
doing enough. You know, it's incredibly easy for a young
child to set up a Snapchat account or a social
media account because they just put in often fake ages
and they have full access as many parents know. But
this bill requires that these social media companies must take
(01:21):
reasonable steps to prevent under sixteen year olds from having accounts,
and if they fail to do that, they're going to
face significant penalties under this bill. So putting the onus
on the social media company, what are.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
The significant steps, specifically.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
The significant steps, Well, that will be up to the
social media companies to put better ID verification in place, and.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So you know they can do.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, well that's what they're working at. That's what they're
working on in Australia at the moment, and that's what
they are working on in many areas around the world.
Because of course there's many jurisdictions that are also taking
action in this space. You will have seen in the
UK and the U, Canada and then Texas recently past
(02:08):
legislation which bans under eighteens.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I give you what I'm trying to Catherine, what I'm
trying to get out of you is the reality versus
the theory. Which is what I started with this. As
much as I am on your side, and every parent
would be on your side. If you can't technically make
somebody do something or they don't technically know how to
do it, all you're doing is relying on honesty. And
we know that's a futile exercise.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, I think we have restrictions in the physical world
to protect our kits, so we should have restrictions in
the online world. And this bill, but.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Only if you can you can be technically. You can't
short of going are you sixteen or not? Short of that,
there is nothing there technically, and the Australians have found
this out. Of course, there's nothing there that is available
to us that makes that happen.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But at the moment, you know, parents, they are really
really struggling.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And I'm a parent, I get it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I know the emotion.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Don't sell me the emotion, sell me the technical answer,
and sadly you don't have one.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
No, Well, I think that we do because this bill
it says to those social media companies that you must
take reasonable steps.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
And what if they dont technically, we simply don't know
how to do it, because think about just zooming on
the phone. The kids in your room with your phone,
they go on into social media, they think are you sixteen? Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Or no.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What you're asking them to do technically is when the
kid lies and goes, yes, I'm sixteen. Somehow magically Mark
Zuckerberg's going to go hah, no, you're not, and he
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It's not going to be perfect, Mike, It's not going
to be perfect. But at the moment, this is a
direction from the government that we need to do more
to protect our kids from online harm, and we need
to put that onus back on those social media comes
who are serving our kids at the moment inappropriate content.
(04:05):
We are just seeing so much damage caused in our
communities from social media and so this is a really
important step in the right direction, and we really need
to try to protect our.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Kids, act not with it. So do you see labor
coming on board with us.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Look, we're getting some positive responses because everyone, I think
sees there's a need and there's a need to protect
our kids from online harm. This is a bill that
I've been working on for over a year now, and
it is complex, as we've already discussed, but it's progressive
that I've got it through our National Party caucus. The
Prime Minister is keen to work on this further and
(04:45):
look at it and see whether we can bring it
forward as a government bill, which would be a really
good result for families and parents and kids across New Zealand.
So I'll be absolutely advocating for it to become a
government bill and i'd those other parties to get behind it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
All right, Catherine, let's talk. You appreciate it very much.
Catherine Weird, who's the national tookie, took emp out of
the way. We'll ask Ginny because of course ACT aren't
on it, and they're at they're not on it for
the very same reasons. I argue it's actually not doable.
If it was doable, fantastic, We're all behind it. But
I'm just not in too politicians who virtue signal, which
is essentially what this is. Because you sell a motion,
(05:23):
you go this is a problem, this is an issue.
We all need help, and we all go yes, yes, yes, yes,
And what's your answer, Well, something that doesn't work. I
mean what Mersey's pointed that for more from the Mic
Asking Breakfast Listen Live to News Talks, it'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
What do we make of this member's bill looking a
bund social media for the under sixteens based on the
Australian model. Basically, it would make companies use age verification.
Now the National MP Catherine web is behind the bill
and as well as Catherine, very good.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Morning to you, Good morning Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We've got a little bit of theory versus reality going here.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
No, absolutely not. I strongly believe that parents should be
better supported in protecting their children from the online harms
of social media. I'm regularly hearing from parents and principles
who are worried about the negative impacts of social media,
whether it's cyber bullying, exploitation, or inappropriate content, concerns about
anxiety and mental well being and mental health. And this
(00:40):
bill mirror is the approach that's been taken in Australia.
It's going to put the onus on social media companies
to ensure that you have to be over the age
of sixteen before they can access social media.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, you don't have to be. All you have to
be is the person who clicks the button that says
you are, which is two completely different things, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, I think at the moment social media companies aren't
doing enough. You know, it's incredibly easy for a young
child to set up a Snapchat account or a social
media account because they just put in often fake ages
and they have full access as many parents know. But
this bill requires that these social media companies must take
(01:21):
reasonable steps to prevent under sixteen year olds from having accounts,
and if they fail to do that, they're going to
face significant penalties under this bill. So putting the onus
on the social media company, what are.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
The significant steps, specifically.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
The significant steps, Well, that will be up to the
social media companies to put better ID verification in place, and.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So you know they can do.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, well that's what they're working at. That's what they're
working on in Australia at the moment, and that's what
they are working on in many areas around the world.
Because of course there's many jurisdictions that are also taking
action in this space. You will have seen in the
UK and the U, Canada and then Texas recently past
(02:08):
legislation which bans under eighteens.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I give you what I'm trying to Catherine, what I'm
trying to get out of you is the reality versus
the theory. Which is what I started with this. As
much as I am on your side, and every parent
would be on your side. If you can't technically make
somebody do something or they don't technically know how to
do it, all you're doing is relying on honesty. And
we know that's a futile exercise.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, I think we have restrictions in the physical world
to protect our kits, so we should have restrictions in
the online world. And this bill, but.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Only if you can you can be technically. You can't
short of going are you sixteen or not? Short of that,
there is nothing there technically, and the Australians have found
this out. Of course, there's nothing there that is available
to us that makes that happen.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But at the moment, you know, parents, they are really
really struggling.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And I'm a parent, I get it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I know the emotion.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Don't sell me the emotion, sell me the technical answer,
and sadly you don't have one.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
No, Well, I think that we do because this bill
it says to those social media companies that you must
take reasonable steps.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
And what if they dont technically, we simply don't know
how to do it, because think about just zooming on
the phone. The kids in your room with your phone,
they go on into social media, they think are you sixteen? Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Or no.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What you're asking them to do technically is when the
kid lies and goes, yes, I'm sixteen. Somehow magically Mark
Zuckerberg's going to go hah, no, you're not, and he
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It's not going to be perfect, Mike, It's not going
to be perfect. But at the moment, this is a
direction from the government that we need to do more
to protect our kids from online harm, and we need
to put that onus back on those social media comes
who are serving our kids at the moment inappropriate content.
(04:05):
We are just seeing so much damage caused in our
communities from social media and so this is a really
important step in the right direction, and we really need
to try to protect our.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Kids, act not with it. So do you see labor
coming on board with us.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Look, we're getting some positive responses because everyone, I think
sees there's a need and there's a need to protect
our kids from online harm. This is a bill that
I've been working on for over a year now, and
it is complex, as we've already discussed, but it's progressive
that I've got it through our National Party caucus. The
Prime Minister is keen to work on this further and
(04:45):
look at it and see whether we can bring it
forward as a government bill, which would be a really
good result for families and parents and kids across New Zealand.
So I'll be absolutely advocating for it to become a
government bill and i'd those other parties to get behind it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
All right, Catherine, let's talk. You appreciate it very much.
Catherine Weird, who's the national tookie, took emp out of
the way. We'll ask Ginny because of course ACT aren't
on it, and they're at they're not on it for
the very same reasons. I argue it's actually not doable.
If it was doable, fantastic, We're all behind it. But
I'm just not in too politicians who virtue signal, which
is essentially what this is. Because you sell a motion,
(05:23):
you go this is a problem, this is an issue.
We all need help, and we all go yes, yes, yes, yes,
And what's your answer, Well, something that doesn't work. I
mean what Mersey's pointed that for more from the Mic
Asking Breakfast Listen Live to News Talks, it'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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