Labour leader Chris Hipkins believes AUKUS is not in New Zealand's best interest.
His party has ruled out joining the transnational pact between Australia, the UK, and the US.
The current Government's considering joining pillar two of the agreement - with non-nuclear aspects.
Chris Hipkins told Mike Hosking we should continue to have good, strategic relationships – and recognise some other partners are not happy with AUKUS.
“If you look at the way it’s perceived internationally, including in our region, it’s perceived as part of the polarisation of geopolitics in our region.”
Meanwhile, the idea or a capital gains tax was also talked about.
Hipkins says we're closer to seeing public appetite for reform.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Back to the Labor Party conference. Who was the tax talk?
But they are keeping on the QT for an Now
what gond announced was the Duneedan hospital back. As for
the original premise, the tech tobacco tax break for the
heated product is gone. Orcas is off. Labor leader Chris
Hopkins with This Morning, Good morning, I was saying earlier
on this morning, best thing you did was pick the
Isaac Theater. How good's that?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's an amazing venue And actually when you realize that
it was mostly rebuilt, so the bit that's supposed to
look old is actually the newest part of the theater.
And then the stage is out the back, which you know,
sort of they're the bit that survived the earthquake. So
exactly amazing venue.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And as a home handyman, you would have appreciated the workmanship.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I really appreciated the workmanship I was. I was most
impressed with the way they'd managed to preserve, you know,
the historic sort of plaster work and stuff, or at
least replicate and restore it. Incredible building.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, did you read Peter Dunn's article over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
He says the government's going pretty well and can with
a lot of governments around the world, they're actually performing
quite well. You wouldn't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh, I don't agree with that obviously. I mean I
think that there, you know, overall, our economy is getting
worse rather than getting better, and I think that some
of the actions that they're taking and contributing to that.
So if you look at the twelve thousand odds fewer
people who are employed in building and construction at the
moment compared to this time last year, I think the
decisions of this government to stop a whole lot of
(01:28):
building projects like statehouse building projects and school upgrades and
so on, has actually contributed to that rather than made
it better.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And at no point do you accept that the six
years of your ineptitude not yours specifically, you're only responsible
for a small part of that ineptitude, but no part
of that ineptitude is responsible for where we sit now,
and it takes more than a year to put it right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think there's no question that the global response to
the global pandemic, including a New Zealand, contributed to a
number of the things that subsequently happened, including this spot
and inflation. Now a lot of that actually in New
Zealand was driven by decisions that were taken independently by
the Reserve Bank. But overall, the response to COVID, including
things like wage subsidies and so on, had a stimulus
(02:12):
effect which then led to inflation. So you know, New
Zealand wasn't alone in that, but decisions that we took
as a government did contribute to that. I think the alternative, however,
was to see a lot of people losing their jobs,
which also wasn't a great alternative either.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And you won't concede that of all the countries in
the world, no one's had three recessions and two years
like we have, and that's a direct outworking of your
government and adrenal.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, the decisions that this government have taken have contributed
to the economic situation that we're into the moment. I
mean they've been in government for a year now. I
know they want to including through a whole budget cycle
another one to continue to blame the previous government for
everything that's been happening, but actually they need to start
accepting responsibility for the decisions that they have taken. They
are the government. They've been in government for every year.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Even though you and government spent your full six years
blaming the previous government, so you had two full so
you didn't take your own advice.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, that's true. I mean I think we we would
say that some of the long term decisions that previous
governments took, such as not investing in schools and hospitals
and so on, had a long legacy effect, and then
includes decisions of the previous government. I think we were
well and truly in the position where we were accepting
responsibility for the current economic situation that the country was
in when we were in government the parts that we controlled.
(03:29):
It's interesting that the current government say, now, oh, there's
a whole lot of international factors that are contributing to
New Zealand's economy being in the position that it's in,
when just a year ago before the election they were saying, oh,
it's all labor's fault and none of us is to
do with international factors. Well, I don't think things have
changed that much in the last year to be Frank.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Okay, Aucus, have you seen something specific or is this
an ideological decision of yours over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, at principal, Mike, I think you know UCUS ultimately
is a nuclear submarine packed if you look at Pillar
two of Aucus, it's not something that we think is
going to be in New Zealand's best interests to be
involved with.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You have you though, actually specifically looked at Pilartoo.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, only the details that are publicly available, and you know,
ultimately we've made the decision that New Zealand's best interests
will be best be served through our existing international arrangements,
including things like the five country partnership that we have,
and in any access to things like new technology should
come through that avenue, not through the Orchest arrangement.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's fine. I'm just working to see it was under
your government that it started and it's been sort of
trapped ever since, and I can't work out whether anything
actually materially has changed, or whether you've just decided you
don't like it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, I think Aucast if you look at the way
it's perceived internationally, including in our region, it's perceived as
part of the polarization of geopolitics in our region, and
I don't think that's something that's going to be in
New Zealand's best interests to be actively participating in. I
think we should continue to have good, you know, strategic
relationships with the US, the UK and Australia, but we've
(05:03):
also got to recognize we've got other partnerships in the
in the region and they are not happy with ucas well.
China is one of them. But our specific nations, you know,
partners are not particularly comfortable with ORCUS either, And I
think we have to be eyes wide open to that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Okay, Dunedin Hospital, to what extent will you build it
no matter what the bill.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
We said that we'll build it to the specification that
we agreed to at the last election, no matter what
the last election. Well, I mean bearing in mind that
the previous that the current government before the election was
saying they were going to build a hospital is even
bigger than the one that we were courting.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, but forget that. This is your promise that, at
no matter what cost you were, whatever it was going
to be, specification wise, you will pay that bill.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
We will we will build a hospital to the respect
that we had agreed to before the last election.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That's okay, currently sitting in over three billion. Where's that
money coming from?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, that's not that's just not true, Mike, because that
includes a whole lot of things that went in the specification,
including a big car parking bill that was never part
of the original specify.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So you think it's still one point nine.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
But they've loaded in things like radiology, which was actually
excluded because that's likely to be built by a private sector.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay, that's fine, but you are saying under your specifications
you will build it. If the bills above one point nine,
you will pay for it. Where's the money come from?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, the multi year capital allowance that the government has
every year to spend.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And so that's all because we're back, we don't have
any money.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Well, when you're building new assets, so you borrow more
reasonable to borrow. It's not unreasonable to borrow for assets
that are going to have a forty to fifty plus
year lifespan and then pay them off over the lifespan
of those assets. That's actually quite prudent piscal management.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And you would have more money, of course coming in
because of the CGT.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, we have more money coming in among other things,
because we're not going to give a text break, a
two hundred million dollar text break to tobacco companies, which
this current government have agreed to.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, but the two hundred is nothing. I mean, that's
pocket change in the cost of a hospital, and that's fine.
But the CGT, how much do you reckon that would
bring in?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, we haven't we haven't agreed to a CGT. Yes,
it's one of the options on the table. We've set
out our text policy. Yes, closer to the next election.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But if you did have a CGT, how much would
that be bringing in?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Roughly, what depends on the decisions you make about Watson's
scope and what's out of scope. So there's still a
lot of water to flow under the bridge before we've
agreed a policy on that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Do you reckon? Out of the weekend, you're closer to
a CGT than you were before it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think we're certainly closer to tax reform, and you know,
I think that's going to be a good thing if
you look at it. You know, when we started talking
about this fifty years ago as the Labor Party, we
were the only people talking about it. Now everybody's saying, actually,
U Zealand's tax system needs reform, So you know, I
think and I think that's a good thing. I think
it's good that people are talking about it, and you know,
I think we are closer to seeing public appetite in
(07:48):
New Zealand for reform of our TEX system.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
All right, good to talk to your Prosipkins Labor Party leader.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Back to the Labor Party conference. Who was the tax talk?
But they are keeping on the QT for an Now
what gond announced was the Duneedan hospital back. As for
the original premise, the tech tobacco tax break for the
heated product is gone. Orcas is off. Labor leader Chris
Hopkins with This Morning, Good morning, I was saying earlier
on this morning, best thing you did was pick the
Isaac Theater. How good's that?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's an amazing venue And actually when you realize that
it was mostly rebuilt, so the bit that's supposed to
look old is actually the newest part of the theater.
And then the stage is out the back, which you know,
sort of they're the bit that survived the earthquake. So
exactly amazing venue.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And as a home handyman, you would have appreciated the workmanship.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I really appreciated the workmanship I was. I was most
impressed with the way they'd managed to preserve, you know,
the historic sort of plaster work and stuff, or at
least replicate and restore it. Incredible building.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, did you read Peter Dunn's article over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
He says the government's going pretty well and can with
a lot of governments around the world, they're actually performing
quite well. You wouldn't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh, I don't agree with that obviously. I mean I
think that there, you know, overall, our economy is getting
worse rather than getting better, and I think that some
of the actions that they're taking and contributing to that.
So if you look at the twelve thousand odds fewer
people who are employed in building and construction at the
moment compared to this time last year, I think the
decisions of this government to stop a whole lot of
(01:28):
building projects like statehouse building projects and school upgrades and
so on, has actually contributed to that rather than made
it better.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And at no point do you accept that the six
years of your ineptitude not yours specifically, you're only responsible
for a small part of that ineptitude, but no part
of that ineptitude is responsible for where we sit now,
and it takes more than a year to put it right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think there's no question that the global response to
the global pandemic, including a New Zealand, contributed to a
number of the things that subsequently happened, including this spot
and inflation. Now a lot of that actually in New
Zealand was driven by decisions that were taken independently by
the Reserve Bank. But overall, the response to COVID, including
things like wage subsidies and so on, had a stimulus
(02:12):
effect which then led to inflation. So you know, New
Zealand wasn't alone in that, but decisions that we took
as a government did contribute to that. I think the alternative, however,
was to see a lot of people losing their jobs,
which also wasn't a great alternative either.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And you won't concede that of all the countries in
the world, no one's had three recessions and two years
like we have, and that's a direct outworking of your
government and adrenal.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, the decisions that this government have taken have contributed
to the economic situation that we're into the moment. I
mean they've been in government for a year now. I
know they want to including through a whole budget cycle
another one to continue to blame the previous government for
everything that's been happening, but actually they need to start
accepting responsibility for the decisions that they have taken. They
are the government. They've been in government for every year.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Even though you and government spent your full six years
blaming the previous government, so you had two full so
you didn't take your own advice.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, that's true. I mean I think we we would
say that some of the long term decisions that previous
governments took, such as not investing in schools and hospitals
and so on, had a long legacy effect, and then
includes decisions of the previous government. I think we were
well and truly in the position where we were accepting
responsibility for the current economic situation that the country was
in when we were in government the parts that we controlled.
(03:29):
It's interesting that the current government say, now, oh, there's
a whole lot of international factors that are contributing to
New Zealand's economy being in the position that it's in,
when just a year ago before the election they were saying, oh,
it's all labor's fault and none of us is to
do with international factors. Well, I don't think things have
changed that much in the last year to be Frank.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Okay, Aucus, have you seen something specific or is this
an ideological decision of yours over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, at principal, Mike, I think you know UCUS ultimately
is a nuclear submarine packed if you look at Pillar
two of Aucus, it's not something that we think is
going to be in New Zealand's best interests to be
involved with.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You have you though, actually specifically looked at Pilartoo.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, only the details that are publicly available, and you know,
ultimately we've made the decision that New Zealand's best interests
will be best be served through our existing international arrangements,
including things like the five country partnership that we have,
and in any access to things like new technology should
come through that avenue, not through the Orchest arrangement.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's fine. I'm just working to see it was under
your government that it started and it's been sort of
trapped ever since, and I can't work out whether anything
actually materially has changed, or whether you've just decided you
don't like it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, I think Aucast if you look at the way
it's perceived internationally, including in our region, it's perceived as
part of the polarization of geopolitics in our region, and
I don't think that's something that's going to be in
New Zealand's best interests to be actively participating in. I
think we should continue to have good, you know, strategic
relationships with the US, the UK and Australia, but we've
(05:03):
also got to recognize we've got other partnerships in the
in the region and they are not happy with ucas well.
China is one of them. But our specific nations, you know,
partners are not particularly comfortable with ORCUS either, And I
think we have to be eyes wide open to that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Okay, Dunedin Hospital, to what extent will you build it
no matter what the bill.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
We said that we'll build it to the specification that
we agreed to at the last election, no matter what
the last election. Well, I mean bearing in mind that
the previous that the current government before the election was
saying they were going to build a hospital is even
bigger than the one that we were courting.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, but forget that. This is your promise that, at
no matter what cost you were, whatever it was going
to be, specification wise, you will pay that bill.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
We will we will build a hospital to the respect
that we had agreed to before the last election.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That's okay, currently sitting in over three billion. Where's that
money coming from?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, that's not that's just not true, Mike, because that
includes a whole lot of things that went in the specification,
including a big car parking bill that was never part
of the original specify.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So you think it's still one point nine.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
But they've loaded in things like radiology, which was actually
excluded because that's likely to be built by a private sector.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay, that's fine, but you are saying under your specifications
you will build it. If the bills above one point nine,
you will pay for it. Where's the money come from?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, the multi year capital allowance that the government has
every year to spend.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And so that's all because we're back, we don't have
any money.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Well, when you're building new assets, so you borrow more
reasonable to borrow. It's not unreasonable to borrow for assets
that are going to have a forty to fifty plus
year lifespan and then pay them off over the lifespan
of those assets. That's actually quite prudent piscal management.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And you would have more money, of course coming in
because of the CGT.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, we have more money coming in among other things,
because we're not going to give a text break, a
two hundred million dollar text break to tobacco companies, which
this current government have agreed to.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, but the two hundred is nothing. I mean, that's
pocket change in the cost of a hospital, and that's fine.
But the CGT, how much do you reckon that would
bring in?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, we haven't we haven't agreed to a CGT. Yes,
it's one of the options on the table. We've set
out our text policy. Yes, closer to the next election.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But if you did have a CGT, how much would
that be bringing in?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Roughly, what depends on the decisions you make about Watson's
scope and what's out of scope. So there's still a
lot of water to flow under the bridge before we've
agreed a policy on that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Do you reckon? Out of the weekend, you're closer to
a CGT than you were before it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think we're certainly closer to tax reform, and you know,
I think that's going to be a good thing if
you look at it. You know, when we started talking
about this fifty years ago as the Labor Party, we
were the only people talking about it. Now everybody's saying, actually,
U Zealand's tax system needs reform, So you know, I
think and I think that's a good thing. I think
it's good that people are talking about it, and you know,
I think we are closer to seeing public appetite in
(07:48):
New Zealand for reform of our TEX system.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
All right, good to talk to your Prosipkins Labor Party leader.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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