September 28, 2025 • 9 mins
The Prime Minister says Winston Peters has articulated New Zealand's position on Gaza well.
Over the weekend the Foreign Minister announced that New Zealand would NOT recognise Palestinian statehood, yet.
Chris Luxon says Hamas is the de facto government and a designated terrorist organisation in New Zealand.
He told Mike Hosking that New Zealand's also called out the excessive response of Israel.
Luxon says we're a friend to both groups and are focused on peace.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This Monday morning, Prime Minister Christopher luxtionder is with us.
Very good morning to you. Good morning Mike, how very well,
and do just a couple of well, what are you
doing Wellington? Why aren't you in Auckland. What's going on Parliament?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Well and surely yeah, we've got quite a big announcement
about two thirty I think today around earthquakes red legislation,
and I've already read that out balance right between costs
and risk and stuff like that, So that's why I'm
here for that.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And now fair enough, well I read it out before.
So basically you're slashing the cost. You're going to say
US eight billion dollars, a billion dollars alone in Wellington.
So what will they go to from thirty four versus
sixty seven? Will that number change.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Or you'll have to wait to two thirty Michael. But
the key thing I'd say is that I think you're right.
I mean, there's been well intentioned but legislation that really
has been one size fits all across the country and
we just got to get much better at looking at
earthquake risk and then getting appropriate cost alongside that to
mitigate against that risk. So we're just trying to get
a rebalancing happening there, and I think Chris Pink's ons
(00:56):
some brilliant work. Has spent a good part of a
year going around talking to everybody about the issue, and
I think we have a sort of common sense solution
to it all today. WHI should be really good.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
When you make that announcement. Will you be anticipating some
more angsty questions over Palestine?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Highly likely? Yes, I hope people focus on the earthquake,
but also very happy to address the Palestine questions as well,
because I actually think we got to the right decision,
and we made the right decision for New Zealand, which
is confirming our previous position saying we're not if but
your complex issue. You know, there's people on all sides
that debate of strong opinions. There's equally people who don't
(01:31):
have any view on it across New Zealand. So I
think we got to a good place and I think
we articulated our view very well.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Does it just one more question on Palestine? Does it
sit comfortably with you in the National Party as opposed
to the government.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah. Absolutely. You've got to remember I'm the Prime Minister
who made the designation about Hamas as a terrorist organization,
and I believe very very strongly that you can't recognize
the state when terrorists play a significant role in the government,
and Hamas is the de facto government of Gaza, and
what happened on October seventh utterly unacceptable. Equally, I've also
been calling out Israel saying, look, it's a grossly disproportionate response.
(02:07):
I thought Winston talked to that and articulated a view
very strongly on that too. And we're not pro Israel
pro Palestine. We're actually friends to both and we want peace,
you know, And that's really the main event, irrespective of recognition,
is really what do you do about the conflict and
how you get that resolved.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Also, this week, power reform on a scale of one
to ten. Ten you're going to blow the whole thing up.
One you're berely goin to touch it. Where are we
going to be at.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Roughly, well, I think pretty common sense.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Staff.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We've actually had a bit of rolling thunder, as I
would say, around power electricity over the last three while.
I mean there's two things going on, Mike. I mean,
first and foremost, we have to double the amount of renewables.
A lot of that's around fast track. We've certainly passed
an RMA amendment bill just dealing with the electricity side,
which is saying it shouldn't take eight years to consent
to win farm. Let's make it one year. Let's make
(02:52):
these things permitted activities because no one endeavors, and also
let's get them larger consenting duration. So that's the renewable side.
A real challenge, as you well know, is actually what
do you do about the firming or firm or capacity generation,
which is the stuff that we need when actually there's
not enough wind, rain or sudden and you know, we've
overturned the oil and gas band. It would be nice
(03:12):
if Labour had a bipartis an approach to that, because
we actually need gas for the foreseeable decades, and we've
put money alongside to co invest in incentivize investors to
come and explore for natural gas on the ground. Here.
We've put in place a strategic coal reserve and hard
lea so that we can keep the lights on and
keep keep prices, you know, with the downward pressure and
(03:32):
with the other thing that we've done recently that you
and I've talked about is that we've made the gen
Taylors offer the price of generation being generated out for
their own the same price they sell to their own
retailing operations. They've got to sell to the smaller competitors
as well. But we've got you know, someone what's will
talk about that this week. But I think we've got
just good common sense things the hard issues, you know,
like essentially the oil and gas ban, easy convenient decision
(03:56):
to make in twenty eighteen, but didn't think through the
consequences and the implies of that. And we've got a
pooper scoop and clean that.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Up, right. So having said that, so you opened it
up for anybody as of I think it was Friday officially,
and you've got the two hundred million dollars which you
just referenced a moment ago. Is actually anybody in line
set to go? And do you run the risk of
actually spending any of that two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well, we're very open to spending it. There's constant conversations
going on about potential investors wanting to invest in energy
and New Zealand and either in gas and or in renewables.
For sure, there's a lot of focus on renewables, but
we want to make sure we're doing everything we can
given the chilling effect that that decision sent to international
investors that this is the government that supports your investment.
(04:38):
And that's why the repeal of that legislation and overcoming
that was kind of important. But look, there's it's complex, right.
I mean, we've got to make sure that we can
actually generate therm or firming conditions electricity, and part of
that is yep, we've had to use a big coal
reserve and put lots of coal in the back of
Huntley deliberately so for those dry riskyeers. But you know,
(05:00):
there's a series of things we're just gonna have to
keep working through.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Okay, Paul Goldsmith, actually let me get to your comments first,
your comments about the Electoral Commission counting faster. There was
some sort of blowback on that. What do you see
the line as between you commenting and offering an opinion
on something versus the Prime Minister going at an independent
organization and then them being affronted by those comments.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, look, i mean I'm thinking I'm just reflecting what
Keywi's view, which is it just takes too long to
get our vote counted. It used to always be two weeks.
Last election, it blew out to three weeks. A lot
of the advice we had as well, that's because there
was a massive increase in special votes, and that's because
people are registering on the day. What we've then said is, okay,
we're going to pull that back to two weeks prior
to an election. You can get yourself organized at two
(05:46):
weeks out from election. I'm sure Keywys can do that.
Australians do it. Four weeks out from election shouldn't be
a problem. And you know, as a result, that should
help speed up the processing of the votes on the
other side of an election. You know, I respect their independence.
I'm not telling them what to do, but I also
expect them to go back and review their processes and
improve and constantly improve their processes to deliver a faster
(06:07):
vote recognition. I just say, around the world, there are
other countries of five million people and they process and
do their vote much faster than three weeks. So I'm
respecting their independence. I'm not telling them what to do,
but I am reflecting where New Zealanders are at, which is,
you know, we're sitting there three weeks after an election
with a vote not counted if you remember last time,
and I don't think it takes that long, and I
(06:27):
think in twenty twenty five there's things that we should
be constantly looking to improve the process. So by pulling
forward the special vote registration, I trust Kiwis they can
get organized two weeks out from election. You can do
it right now tomorrow if you feel so inclined and
get yourself enrolled.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Paul Goldsmith, in talking to the Law Association last week
warning about unique court rulings in this country and bespoke
legal systems and putting off investors, does he speak on
behalf of the government or has he gone off off
peace and just done this by himself.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Think on behalf of the government, which is that you know,
we just want to make sure the rule of law
and the legal system is internetally recognize. It's really clear
for people, particularly if you're an overseas investor, you need
predictability and certainty in how law is going to be interpreted.
And I don't think you want that clarity for investors
and clarity around the rule of law. So you know
he's just saying, look, you know, we acknowledge there's some
(07:22):
unique aspects in his Zealander around checking. But actually, you know,
we want to make sure there's also a real clarity
for people and if there is. If there isn't clarity,
we're happy to legislate or open to legislating over the
top as we have been Like.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
What what would you be happy to legislate over the
top of?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, I'm not sure, but I mean as the issues
come up. I mean he was reacting I think to
questions around Peter Allison and certainly around I think the
game patch return or something like that. But but all
he's saying is a broader point in an academically law
society kind of conversation that look, we need to make
sure that we've got a consistency around how our laws
are going to be interpreted, because if you are coming
(07:59):
investing billions of dollars in New Zealand, you do want
certainty to know that if you've got remedies that are
needed in a dispute or a conflict that you may have,
you know how that's going to be handled.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay, this property stuff that got made news last week,
and your old mate Carl wires twenty five houses that
he didn't know what's going on. The law's not clear.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, I mean the registrar. You know, as I understand
at carltok advice from the Registrar on that actually that
explicit point, and he's followed that advice subsequently. It turns
out I think there's six or seven MP's or something
that people, you know, the registrar you know, thinks may
be caught by the same sort of position or a
similar position. Long story short, there's something called standing orders
(08:37):
here in the Parliament rules. I can't comment too much
on it, but suffice to say, you know, the Registrar's
now decided to have another look at it. But as
I understand it, you know, Carl had asked for advice
around that from the Registrar himself and has followed that advice.
But let's see where that goes. And if we need
to tighten up anything then I'm sure we'd be open
to do.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You agree with me. I thought the test on Saturday
was better than the South African win. It was a
bitter game.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I think so too. I think that first twenty
five minutes they were on fire. I mean it was
the passing skills were unbelievable. There was very little kicking.
I thought they were absolutely fantastic, and I spoke to
a number of the players at the end of the
game and yeah, the Australians were good, right, they were
quite quick and fast, and yeah they played well actually,
and Joe Schmid's done a good job with that team.
But I personally thought, no, they played really well.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, exactly right, Go, well, we catch up next week.
Appreciate our Prime Minister Christoph Lux and that announcement on
the earthquakes coming at two thirty this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks i'd Be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
This Monday morning, Prime Minister Christopher luxtionder is with us.
Very good morning to you. Good morning Mike, how very well,
and do just a couple of well, what are you
doing Wellington? Why aren't you in Auckland. What's going on Parliament?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Well and surely yeah, we've got quite a big announcement
about two thirty I think today around earthquakes red legislation,
and I've already read that out balance right between costs
and risk and stuff like that, So that's why I'm
here for that.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And now fair enough, well I read it out before.
So basically you're slashing the cost. You're going to say
US eight billion dollars, a billion dollars alone in Wellington.
So what will they go to from thirty four versus
sixty seven? Will that number change.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Or you'll have to wait to two thirty Michael. But
the key thing I'd say is that I think you're right.
I mean, there's been well intentioned but legislation that really
has been one size fits all across the country and
we just got to get much better at looking at
earthquake risk and then getting appropriate cost alongside that to
mitigate against that risk. So we're just trying to get
a rebalancing happening there, and I think Chris Pink's ons
(00:56):
some brilliant work. Has spent a good part of a
year going around talking to everybody about the issue, and
I think we have a sort of common sense solution
to it all today. WHI should be really good.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
When you make that announcement. Will you be anticipating some
more angsty questions over Palestine?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Highly likely? Yes, I hope people focus on the earthquake,
but also very happy to address the Palestine questions as well,
because I actually think we got to the right decision,
and we made the right decision for New Zealand, which
is confirming our previous position saying we're not if but
your complex issue. You know, there's people on all sides
that debate of strong opinions. There's equally people who don't
(01:31):
have any view on it across New Zealand. So I
think we got to a good place and I think
we articulated our view very well.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Does it just one more question on Palestine? Does it
sit comfortably with you in the National Party as opposed
to the government.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah. Absolutely. You've got to remember I'm the Prime Minister
who made the designation about Hamas as a terrorist organization,
and I believe very very strongly that you can't recognize
the state when terrorists play a significant role in the government,
and Hamas is the de facto government of Gaza, and
what happened on October seventh utterly unacceptable. Equally, I've also
been calling out Israel saying, look, it's a grossly disproportionate response.
(02:07):
I thought Winston talked to that and articulated a view
very strongly on that too. And we're not pro Israel
pro Palestine. We're actually friends to both and we want peace,
you know, And that's really the main event, irrespective of recognition,
is really what do you do about the conflict and
how you get that resolved.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Also, this week, power reform on a scale of one
to ten. Ten you're going to blow the whole thing up.
One you're berely goin to touch it. Where are we
going to be at.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Roughly, well, I think pretty common sense.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Staff.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We've actually had a bit of rolling thunder, as I
would say, around power electricity over the last three while.
I mean there's two things going on, Mike. I mean,
first and foremost, we have to double the amount of renewables.
A lot of that's around fast track. We've certainly passed
an RMA amendment bill just dealing with the electricity side,
which is saying it shouldn't take eight years to consent
to win farm. Let's make it one year. Let's make
(02:52):
these things permitted activities because no one endeavors, and also
let's get them larger consenting duration. So that's the renewable side.
A real challenge, as you well know, is actually what
do you do about the firming or firm or capacity generation,
which is the stuff that we need when actually there's
not enough wind, rain or sudden and you know, we've
overturned the oil and gas band. It would be nice
(03:12):
if Labour had a bipartis an approach to that, because
we actually need gas for the foreseeable decades, and we've
put money alongside to co invest in incentivize investors to
come and explore for natural gas on the ground. Here.
We've put in place a strategic coal reserve and hard
lea so that we can keep the lights on and
keep keep prices, you know, with the downward pressure and
(03:32):
with the other thing that we've done recently that you
and I've talked about is that we've made the gen
Taylors offer the price of generation being generated out for
their own the same price they sell to their own
retailing operations. They've got to sell to the smaller competitors
as well. But we've got you know, someone what's will
talk about that this week. But I think we've got
just good common sense things the hard issues, you know,
like essentially the oil and gas ban, easy convenient decision
(03:56):
to make in twenty eighteen, but didn't think through the
consequences and the implies of that. And we've got a
pooper scoop and clean that.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Up, right. So having said that, so you opened it
up for anybody as of I think it was Friday officially,
and you've got the two hundred million dollars which you
just referenced a moment ago. Is actually anybody in line
set to go? And do you run the risk of
actually spending any of that two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well, we're very open to spending it. There's constant conversations
going on about potential investors wanting to invest in energy
and New Zealand and either in gas and or in renewables.
For sure, there's a lot of focus on renewables, but
we want to make sure we're doing everything we can
given the chilling effect that that decision sent to international
investors that this is the government that supports your investment.
(04:38):
And that's why the repeal of that legislation and overcoming
that was kind of important. But look, there's it's complex, right.
I mean, we've got to make sure that we can
actually generate therm or firming conditions electricity, and part of
that is yep, we've had to use a big coal
reserve and put lots of coal in the back of
Huntley deliberately so for those dry riskyeers. But you know,
(05:00):
there's a series of things we're just gonna have to
keep working through.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Okay, Paul Goldsmith, actually let me get to your comments first,
your comments about the Electoral Commission counting faster. There was
some sort of blowback on that. What do you see
the line as between you commenting and offering an opinion
on something versus the Prime Minister going at an independent
organization and then them being affronted by those comments.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, look, i mean I'm thinking I'm just reflecting what
Keywi's view, which is it just takes too long to
get our vote counted. It used to always be two weeks.
Last election, it blew out to three weeks. A lot
of the advice we had as well, that's because there
was a massive increase in special votes, and that's because
people are registering on the day. What we've then said is, okay,
we're going to pull that back to two weeks prior
to an election. You can get yourself organized at two
(05:46):
weeks out from election. I'm sure Keywys can do that.
Australians do it. Four weeks out from election shouldn't be
a problem. And you know, as a result, that should
help speed up the processing of the votes on the
other side of an election. You know, I respect their independence.
I'm not telling them what to do, but I also
expect them to go back and review their processes and
improve and constantly improve their processes to deliver a faster
(06:07):
vote recognition. I just say, around the world, there are
other countries of five million people and they process and
do their vote much faster than three weeks. So I'm
respecting their independence. I'm not telling them what to do,
but I am reflecting where New Zealanders are at, which is,
you know, we're sitting there three weeks after an election
with a vote not counted if you remember last time,
and I don't think it takes that long, and I
(06:27):
think in twenty twenty five there's things that we should
be constantly looking to improve the process. So by pulling
forward the special vote registration, I trust Kiwis they can
get organized two weeks out from election. You can do
it right now tomorrow if you feel so inclined and
get yourself enrolled.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Paul Goldsmith, in talking to the Law Association last week
warning about unique court rulings in this country and bespoke
legal systems and putting off investors, does he speak on
behalf of the government or has he gone off off
peace and just done this by himself.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Think on behalf of the government, which is that you know,
we just want to make sure the rule of law
and the legal system is internetally recognize. It's really clear
for people, particularly if you're an overseas investor, you need
predictability and certainty in how law is going to be interpreted.
And I don't think you want that clarity for investors
and clarity around the rule of law. So you know
he's just saying, look, you know, we acknowledge there's some
(07:22):
unique aspects in his Zealander around checking. But actually, you know,
we want to make sure there's also a real clarity
for people and if there is. If there isn't clarity,
we're happy to legislate or open to legislating over the
top as we have been Like.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
What what would you be happy to legislate over the
top of?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, I'm not sure, but I mean as the issues
come up. I mean he was reacting I think to
questions around Peter Allison and certainly around I think the
game patch return or something like that. But but all
he's saying is a broader point in an academically law
society kind of conversation that look, we need to make
sure that we've got a consistency around how our laws
are going to be interpreted, because if you are coming
(07:59):
investing billions of dollars in New Zealand, you do want
certainty to know that if you've got remedies that are
needed in a dispute or a conflict that you may have,
you know how that's going to be handled.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay, this property stuff that got made news last week,
and your old mate Carl wires twenty five houses that
he didn't know what's going on. The law's not clear.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, I mean the registrar. You know, as I understand
at carltok advice from the Registrar on that actually that
explicit point, and he's followed that advice subsequently. It turns
out I think there's six or seven MP's or something
that people, you know, the registrar you know, thinks may
be caught by the same sort of position or a
similar position. Long story short, there's something called standing orders
(08:37):
here in the Parliament rules. I can't comment too much
on it, but suffice to say, you know, the Registrar's
now decided to have another look at it. But as
I understand it, you know, Carl had asked for advice
around that from the Registrar himself and has followed that advice.
But let's see where that goes. And if we need
to tighten up anything then I'm sure we'd be open
to do.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You agree with me. I thought the test on Saturday
was better than the South African win. It was a
bitter game.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I think so too. I think that first twenty
five minutes they were on fire. I mean it was
the passing skills were unbelievable. There was very little kicking.
I thought they were absolutely fantastic, and I spoke to
a number of the players at the end of the
game and yeah, the Australians were good, right, they were
quite quick and fast, and yeah they played well actually,
and Joe Schmid's done a good job with that team.
But I personally thought, no, they played really well.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, exactly right, Go, well, we catch up next week.
Appreciate our Prime Minister Christoph Lux and that announcement on
the earthquakes coming at two thirty this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks i'd Be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.