April 27, 2025 • 10 mins
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says incomplete or wrong information from the IRD is to blame for shortfalls in the Government's FamilyBoost scheme.
The tax rebate of up to $75 per week was initially touted as a $249-million-a-year handout to help with covering childcare costs.
Only 1.2% of eligible families received a full subsidy.
Christopher Luxon talks to Luxon about the shortfall, his experience at the Pope's funeral and time commemorating Anzac Day.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it's been quite the week for the Prime Minister,
who started out on a trade come business trip to
Britain that involved meetings with keystaram Or, a visit to
our troops training the Ukrainians, of course, an ANZAC service
at Gallipoli, and ended with a trip to Rome and
a papal Farewell. Christopher Luxen is with us. Very good morning,
Good morning, Mike. Good to be with you. Well, normally,
of course we were going to start with the ANZAC
day first, but events overtook it all in the week.
(00:20):
It looked in Rome quite the scene.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, it was pretty special to represent New Zealanders there
and pretty powerful guy and to see all these little
leaders show up to recognize him and appreciate him with
quite something.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Did it feel like a moment, Yeah it did. I
mean I.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Looked out over the square and New Ditery is just
sort of people just jam packed everywhere down this roads,
down the alleyways.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Really quite something.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, and then applause would break out as different things
were said, and as this coffin was moved, and it
was quite moving.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
If people haven't been there, and I'm assuming where you
were sitting us up towards the Vatican itself. You're on
the top, there's a slope. The whole thing's on this slope,
and you look down and you can see way back
down the streets for miles.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I was sort of literally two rows in the second
or third row from the altar and very very close
to seeing this ceremony and obviously very close to the coffin,
and then you'd just look out to the left and
you could just see people, just streams of people, and
I think there were reports there was something like two
hundred and fifty to four hundred thousand people there.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What was security like and how was it handled?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It was a lot of security, and as you expect,
it was tricky getting cars and delegations in and out
of the cathedral, and then it was very difficult getting
back out again. Everyone was there waiting for their cars
and delegations to come out the other side. But it's
a big movement. Trying to deal with all those world
leaders that were there.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And who did you run into and who did you
talk to? And any business was done or was that
not really allowed?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, it was really ran into probably fifteen or so
leaders and had good conversations with them. But it wasn't
a place where we did formal bilaterals or anything like that.
But you know, I had a good catch up with
the President of the European Union, Philippines president as well,
so Kiir Starmer obviously the Dutch Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I ran into President Biden, who was there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, so it's just there's just a few people to
talk to and have touch base with.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And what do you make of it?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You were listening the photo of course of Trump and
Zelensky huddled together. Does that does that bring us all hope?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I mean it's an incredibly challenging situation, as you well know,
but it was quite powerful and evocative imagery. I thought,
seeing those two together sitting on the chairs having a
conversation at the cathedral at a funeral of the guy.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That was was talking about will peace And isn't it ironic?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I suppose you go back to Anzac Day and what
we commemorated Anzac Day, and you look back at the
world and wars and at that moment and the trouble
we're all in these days. Maybe if we spent more
time thinking about Anzac Days, the world wouldn't be where
it is at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, that was another highlight of the week.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Mike was doing the Dawn service, but I had exactly
the same reflection, was that, you know, one hundred and
ten years ago we were on a peninsula and the
data nails at Gallipoli with the Australians and with the Brits,
and then one hundred and ten years later, we're with
the Brits in south of England training Ukrainian soldiers fifty
four thousand of them to go back into a warfare
in a matter of days after being trained by New
(03:24):
Zealand troops and British troops yet again entrenches, albeit with drones,
and so it was, yeah, it was a big thought
that process. We haven't come that far, have we? In
some ways?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Actually speaking of drones. The thing that took my attention
with this trip to Britain and Starmer and your visit
to the troops who were training for the people in Ukraine,
this business and tech stuff that we do. So there's
a small company in Mount Monganui and the next thing
you know, they're doing multimillion dollar deals with the UK.
I mean, that's a story worth telling, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I mean the highlight of the UK trip for me
was that we've got all this historical stuff that ties
us to the but we're obviously a long way away
from each other. But we've actually got new things now
in the relationship that we can continue to build and
propel this relationship on. And so one is really around
defense and security. Awesome caree company SIOS that's actually did
a thirty million pound deal with the Ministry of Defense
(04:15):
in the UK unmanned uncrewed equipment and what we want
to do in our defense capability plan some aspects as well.
But then also the free trade agreement Mike has been fantastic.
In the last twelve months. We've had twenty one percent
growth in New Zealand exports to the UK. I did
a day with investors in tech and also with infrastructure investors,
(04:36):
and we've got a lot of British investors putting it
renewable energy and projects into New Zealand as well. So
it's good to have not just the historical stuff of.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
A sheared outlook.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
She had value, she had histories, but also now have
real drive and ambition about what we can do more
together going forward.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And if you talk to a British audience, generally they
know about sheep, they know about serving on blanc of course,
do they know about tech automatically?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
That's what I spent a lot of time doing on
the Gala. Don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
We had two hundred and fifty people there just telling
them exactly, you know us for exactly those things and
marks and Spencer's and Wagros. But do you know that
we are top five country on renewables, We're.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
The fourth biggest launcher of rockets.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
We've got amazing tech companies there that are already operating
well in the UK as well, So you know that
message is getting through that we've got traditional sectors, but
we are also modern country with lots of the emerging tech.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
As well, which is very interesting to them.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So back in Rome, you mentioned the president of the EU.
You know when you talk about the EU, and I
guess you're up with this. Rachel Reeves mentioned over the
weekend that Britain needs to trade more with the EU.
They need to worry more about the EU than they
do about the United States. Does that broad theory dubtail
with where we're at or not?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I think for us it's an and and and not
an or. And you know we want a positive, constructive
relationship with the Americans. We've got good connections to that administration.
Our exporters are actually still feeling very positive about the
market posts the tariffs. We're not imposing.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Retaliatory tariffs because it will just.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Hurt News Islanders and we'll continue to make the case
for New Zealand, but then it's an end. And that's
what we've been doing the last sixteen months is getting
to the UAE, getting to the GCC kicking off and
going to the UK, powering up the FTA, bringing the
euf TA into force the season earlier than when planned.
All that stuff that I've been doing, comprehensives, tragic hutch
(06:24):
of Vietnam, r c own Countries, Singapore, all that stuff
is really important. We've got to sell more and more
things to the world.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
A couple of domestic things. China got very upset at
New Zealand MPs who visited Taiwan. Should they be and
is there a problem there?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Will not.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
No, We've got a long standing commitment to our One
China policy, which we hold to. But we've had always
a long tradition of back bench MPs going off to Taiwan.
It's the legislator, not the executive that goes.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Now the family boost where what was it? Three four
or five families?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I mean, how did you cock that up? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I mean there was a real challenges around there, obviously,
the assumptions and around as to what was who was
going to get what, and what was who was entitled
to what could to see Nicholas come out and said, look,
we want to make sure that you'll look at the
system and make sure it works. But we did get
you know, forty two million dollars out to fifty five
thousand people or families, which was actually really important. We
(07:19):
were trying to put it out as quickly as possible
rather than make an IT system that would then take
year a year and a half to do. But yes,
clearly some assumptions from my ID based off some incomplete
information led to there's some challenges there. But Nicolay wants
to make sure that we get that money out into
those families.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And does that then sit with the ID because they
didn't have the numbers, or does it sit with you
because you got very bullish on it, sprooking it and
selling it when you really didn't have the details to
do that.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Now I think we hit off the assumptions that we
had in the models that we had built and from
assumptions that we had. But clearly, you know, some of
tho assumptions are offering complete information or wrong information. But
the key thing is the intention was to get money
out the door to families that actually are dealing with
the cost of living crisis and high early child education costs,
(08:06):
and we want to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
As fast as possible.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So we did it through the rebate sort of model,
but obviously there's more that we can do there, and
Nicholas going to keep looking at it and see what
else we can do.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So the idea is the money will eventually go out
to people you intended it to go to. It'll just
be slightly different by way of mechanism.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Absolutely, I mean, we want that money going to those
working families that actually have got very high childcare costs.
We want to do everything we can to support them.
The system has worked as well as it can to
get the cash out to them. Obviously some of the
assumptions were wrong as to how much people would receive
and when how they would do that, But we can
fix that up.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All right, and then acc an act and Mari procurement.
Are you up on this or no?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I sorry, I haven't been briefed a little bit on
the ACC ship and I know Scott Simpson's asked the
team to look at that again.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So on the surface, act to claiming that a SEC
is still trying to procure services based on race and
there's this cabinet piece of paper that says you can't
do that.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So I act right, Well, we've got a circular that's
about making sure services public services delivered on the basis
of need. ACC have obviously got a procurement exercise up
and running. The Minister Scott Simpson, as I understand, it
was quite comfortable in the first instance, but obviously it's
an operational decision for them. But he's and now asked
them to go back and reassure themselves and him that
(09:25):
that's been handled well.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So I'm up.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The week in totality, oh very I know how to
sell them up. Big week, really excited about the UK
relationship moving forward and having new things to feed it.
Blowing away by Gallipoli and being there on the dawn service.
Highlight for me was talking to Kiwis, who had made
the trip basically as pilgrimage.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Were a tired folk on a tour.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
There was school groups there from all over New Zealand
that had come to show their respects to the Glipoli
and Anzac troops, and then obviously the Pope's funeral. Very
special to be there representing the country and just seeing
all those people and what he meant to them. And
I think a leader who had massive determination for the
church and for his cause, but also had massive amounts
(10:11):
of personal humility, and that's always a sign of a
good leader to me.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
All right, listen, I appreciate New Time Trouble, Sorrifly Home
proustill likes and Prime Minister for more from the Mic
Asking Breakfast Listen live to news talks i'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Well, it's been quite the week for the Prime Minister,
who started out on a trade come business trip to
Britain that involved meetings with keystaram Or, a visit to
our troops training the Ukrainians, of course, an ANZAC service
at Gallipoli, and ended with a trip to Rome and
a papal Farewell. Christopher Luxen is with us. Very good morning,
Good morning, Mike. Good to be with you. Well, normally,
of course we were going to start with the ANZAC
day first, but events overtook it all in the week.
(00:20):
It looked in Rome quite the scene.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, it was pretty special to represent New Zealanders there
and pretty powerful guy and to see all these little
leaders show up to recognize him and appreciate him with
quite something.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Did it feel like a moment, Yeah it did. I
mean I.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Looked out over the square and New Ditery is just
sort of people just jam packed everywhere down this roads,
down the alleyways.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Really quite something.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, and then applause would break out as different things
were said, and as this coffin was moved, and it
was quite moving.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
If people haven't been there, and I'm assuming where you
were sitting us up towards the Vatican itself. You're on
the top, there's a slope. The whole thing's on this slope,
and you look down and you can see way back
down the streets for miles.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I was sort of literally two rows in the second
or third row from the altar and very very close
to seeing this ceremony and obviously very close to the coffin,
and then you'd just look out to the left and
you could just see people, just streams of people, and
I think there were reports there was something like two
hundred and fifty to four hundred thousand people there.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What was security like and how was it handled?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It was a lot of security, and as you expect,
it was tricky getting cars and delegations in and out
of the cathedral, and then it was very difficult getting
back out again. Everyone was there waiting for their cars
and delegations to come out the other side. But it's
a big movement. Trying to deal with all those world
leaders that were there.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And who did you run into and who did you
talk to? And any business was done or was that
not really allowed?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, it was really ran into probably fifteen or so
leaders and had good conversations with them. But it wasn't
a place where we did formal bilaterals or anything like that.
But you know, I had a good catch up with
the President of the European Union, Philippines president as well,
so Kiir Starmer obviously the Dutch Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I ran into President Biden, who was there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, so it's just there's just a few people to
talk to and have touch base with.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And what do you make of it?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You were listening the photo of course of Trump and
Zelensky huddled together. Does that does that bring us all hope?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I mean it's an incredibly challenging situation, as you well know,
but it was quite powerful and evocative imagery. I thought,
seeing those two together sitting on the chairs having a
conversation at the cathedral at a funeral of the guy.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That was was talking about will peace And isn't it ironic?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I suppose you go back to Anzac Day and what
we commemorated Anzac Day, and you look back at the
world and wars and at that moment and the trouble
we're all in these days. Maybe if we spent more
time thinking about Anzac Days, the world wouldn't be where
it is at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, that was another highlight of the week.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Mike was doing the Dawn service, but I had exactly
the same reflection, was that, you know, one hundred and
ten years ago we were on a peninsula and the
data nails at Gallipoli with the Australians and with the Brits,
and then one hundred and ten years later, we're with
the Brits in south of England training Ukrainian soldiers fifty
four thousand of them to go back into a warfare
in a matter of days after being trained by New
(03:24):
Zealand troops and British troops yet again entrenches, albeit with drones,
and so it was, yeah, it was a big thought
that process. We haven't come that far, have we? In
some ways?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Actually speaking of drones. The thing that took my attention
with this trip to Britain and Starmer and your visit
to the troops who were training for the people in Ukraine,
this business and tech stuff that we do. So there's
a small company in Mount Monganui and the next thing
you know, they're doing multimillion dollar deals with the UK.
I mean, that's a story worth telling, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I mean the highlight of the UK trip for me
was that we've got all this historical stuff that ties
us to the but we're obviously a long way away
from each other. But we've actually got new things now
in the relationship that we can continue to build and
propel this relationship on. And so one is really around
defense and security. Awesome caree company SIOS that's actually did
a thirty million pound deal with the Ministry of Defense
(04:15):
in the UK unmanned uncrewed equipment and what we want
to do in our defense capability plan some aspects as well.
But then also the free trade agreement Mike has been fantastic.
In the last twelve months. We've had twenty one percent
growth in New Zealand exports to the UK. I did
a day with investors in tech and also with infrastructure investors,
(04:36):
and we've got a lot of British investors putting it
renewable energy and projects into New Zealand as well. So
it's good to have not just the historical stuff of.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
A sheared outlook.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
She had value, she had histories, but also now have
real drive and ambition about what we can do more
together going forward.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And if you talk to a British audience, generally they
know about sheep, they know about serving on blanc of course,
do they know about tech automatically?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
That's what I spent a lot of time doing on
the Gala. Don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
We had two hundred and fifty people there just telling
them exactly, you know us for exactly those things and
marks and Spencer's and Wagros. But do you know that
we are top five country on renewables, We're.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
The fourth biggest launcher of rockets.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
We've got amazing tech companies there that are already operating
well in the UK as well, So you know that
message is getting through that we've got traditional sectors, but
we are also modern country with lots of the emerging tech.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
As well, which is very interesting to them.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So back in Rome, you mentioned the president of the EU.
You know when you talk about the EU, and I
guess you're up with this. Rachel Reeves mentioned over the
weekend that Britain needs to trade more with the EU.
They need to worry more about the EU than they
do about the United States. Does that broad theory dubtail
with where we're at or not?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I think for us it's an and and and not
an or. And you know we want a positive, constructive
relationship with the Americans. We've got good connections to that administration.
Our exporters are actually still feeling very positive about the
market posts the tariffs. We're not imposing.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Retaliatory tariffs because it will just.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Hurt News Islanders and we'll continue to make the case
for New Zealand, but then it's an end. And that's
what we've been doing the last sixteen months is getting
to the UAE, getting to the GCC kicking off and
going to the UK, powering up the FTA, bringing the
euf TA into force the season earlier than when planned.
All that stuff that I've been doing, comprehensives, tragic hutch
(06:24):
of Vietnam, r c own Countries, Singapore, all that stuff
is really important. We've got to sell more and more
things to the world.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
A couple of domestic things. China got very upset at
New Zealand MPs who visited Taiwan. Should they be and
is there a problem there?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Will not.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
No, We've got a long standing commitment to our One
China policy, which we hold to. But we've had always
a long tradition of back bench MPs going off to Taiwan.
It's the legislator, not the executive that goes.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Now the family boost where what was it? Three four
or five families?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I mean, how did you cock that up? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I mean there was a real challenges around there, obviously,
the assumptions and around as to what was who was
going to get what, and what was who was entitled
to what could to see Nicholas come out and said, look,
we want to make sure that you'll look at the
system and make sure it works. But we did get
you know, forty two million dollars out to fifty five
thousand people or families, which was actually really important. We
(07:19):
were trying to put it out as quickly as possible
rather than make an IT system that would then take
year a year and a half to do. But yes,
clearly some assumptions from my ID based off some incomplete
information led to there's some challenges there. But Nicolay wants
to make sure that we get that money out into
those families.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And does that then sit with the ID because they
didn't have the numbers, or does it sit with you
because you got very bullish on it, sprooking it and
selling it when you really didn't have the details to
do that.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Now I think we hit off the assumptions that we
had in the models that we had built and from
assumptions that we had. But clearly, you know, some of
tho assumptions are offering complete information or wrong information. But
the key thing is the intention was to get money
out the door to families that actually are dealing with
the cost of living crisis and high early child education costs,
(08:06):
and we want to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
As fast as possible.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So we did it through the rebate sort of model,
but obviously there's more that we can do there, and
Nicholas going to keep looking at it and see what
else we can do.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So the idea is the money will eventually go out
to people you intended it to go to. It'll just
be slightly different by way of mechanism.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Absolutely, I mean, we want that money going to those
working families that actually have got very high childcare costs.
We want to do everything we can to support them.
The system has worked as well as it can to
get the cash out to them. Obviously some of the
assumptions were wrong as to how much people would receive
and when how they would do that, But we can
fix that up.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All right, and then acc an act and Mari procurement.
Are you up on this or no?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I sorry, I haven't been briefed a little bit on
the ACC ship and I know Scott Simpson's asked the
team to look at that again.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So on the surface, act to claiming that a SEC
is still trying to procure services based on race and
there's this cabinet piece of paper that says you can't
do that.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So I act right, Well, we've got a circular that's
about making sure services public services delivered on the basis
of need. ACC have obviously got a procurement exercise up
and running. The Minister Scott Simpson, as I understand, it
was quite comfortable in the first instance, but obviously it's
an operational decision for them. But he's and now asked
them to go back and reassure themselves and him that
(09:25):
that's been handled well.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So I'm up.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The week in totality, oh very I know how to
sell them up. Big week, really excited about the UK
relationship moving forward and having new things to feed it.
Blowing away by Gallipoli and being there on the dawn service.
Highlight for me was talking to Kiwis, who had made
the trip basically as pilgrimage.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Were a tired folk on a tour.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
There was school groups there from all over New Zealand
that had come to show their respects to the Glipoli
and Anzac troops, and then obviously the Pope's funeral. Very
special to be there representing the country and just seeing
all those people and what he meant to them. And
I think a leader who had massive determination for the
church and for his cause, but also had massive amounts
(10:11):
of personal humility, and that's always a sign of a
good leader to me.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
All right, listen, I appreciate New Time Trouble, Sorrifly Home
proustill likes and Prime Minister for more from the Mic
Asking Breakfast Listen live to news talks i'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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